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2010: PHP, CSS, Vanilla JS, and a LAMP Server.
Ah, the simple life.
2016: Node.js, React, Vue, Angular, AngularJS, Polymer, Sass, Less, Gulp, Bower, Grunt.
I can't handle this, I'm shifting domains to Machine Learning.
2017: Numpy, Scipy, TensorFlow, Theano, Keras, Torch, CNNs, RNNs, GANs and LOTS AND LOTS OF MATH!
Okay, okay. Calm down there fella.
Hey, wanna hear a disappointing stack?
- vanilla inline CSS
- shitty random legacy PHP
The author is NOT responsible nor liable for any injuries, mental health issues, sanitary problems, asexuality, crippling depression, triggered by this rant nor liable for any damaged walls, hurt animals or deaths.12
Watching a cookery program and it made me think it must be hard being a chef.
Then it made me think that being a web developer is a bit like cooking.
You have your ready meal equivalent with WordPress and Wix.
You have your cook at home kits with front-end frameworks like bootstrap and foundation.
Then you have your own home made cooking using vanilla js, CSS and HTML made to your own liking.
Just like being a good chef, being a good web developer is about knowing what ingredients and methods to include, but also what to leave out, to get the best result!5
I DID IT :D
I VERTICALLY ALIGNED A DIV IN CSS
I'm a noob in front-end development, I usually use bootstrap but now I did it in vanilla CSS inside ReactJs =D
or is it lol, I don't know, I used these:
My tech stack progression:
Started with PHP without any frameworks, using a homegrown MVC architecture. Used to use `mysql_` functions everywhere. And only jquery + vanilla CSS in the front end.
Then moved to use PDO functions in PHP and Backbone.js + Less CSS in the front-end.
Then moved to Django in the back-end. Did not like Django very much as it is too opinionated and not flexible (although it's damn good for rapid development if you buy into their type of things).
Then moved to Flask + SQLAlchemy and using a home grown architecture. This is a sweet spot for me in terms of back end and stayed in this spot for the longest time.
Moved to Postgres from MySQL as I fell in love with Postgres.
Then learnt React+Redux. Liked it. Made most sense to front-end development this way. Moved front-end stack to React+Redux.
Learning Haskell and been working with Scotty and eyeing Servant for a while now.
Let's see where it goes from here.
PS: this is my personal journey through various tech stacks in various products at various companies I have worked. I'm not talking about moving a product through these many tech stacks. That doesn't make any sense.9
I'm so sick of being forced to use CSS frameworks at work. Every time I see one of those HTML elements with 87 terribly-named CSS classes, I want to scream and break something
What's wrong with Vanilla CSS? Why is it so unpopular to just stick with plain CSS, I feel like I'm infinitely more productive when I can just write out some short CSS than trying to wrangle the dumbass CSS framework to do what I want it to do. Even things like Vuetify make me lose my mind with the stupid shit you have to do to get it to behave how you want it
Also, Material Design is ugly as hell to me16
If you're going to fucking build a fucking templating system, you fucking better make sure it fucking follows proper structure -- Bootstrap, vanilla CSS, whatever -- so that when I follow conventions your fucking shit doesn't fucking shit all over the fucking place in fifty fucking different ways.1
@AlexDeLarge and any other React guys, which do you prefer? Traditional css files, whether that be vanilla or with a preprocessor, or style objects for each component.
There are some pretty clear pros i can identify for both sides, but I'm pretty sure I'm missing somethings and I'd like to hear from you guys your opinions and experiences with either27
So I'm coming out of one that has a focus on this stack (JS [JQuery after weeks of Vanilla JS drilling in our heads, React], Java, MySQL, Python [Django, Bottle], HTML/CSS, and a few web security concepts (XSS, SQL injections).
The whole course has been 4 months learning, 3 weeks working on a final project. Next week is the presentation, so I think I can safely comment on the course.
We moved fast, but that's to be expected. Lecture in the mornings, exercises in the afternoons, assignments due at the beginning of each week. Constantly working towards it and improving. I have been working pretty hard. We were given some help, but had to get a lot of answers online (based God StackOverflow), but that's part of it.
We touched on some concepts like inheritance in JS, Python and Java, OOP and to be open to concepts we don't know so we should be thirsty for that knowledge.
In my off time, I've begun texting myself Node and really trying to double down on React because it seems useful. I realized I was more drawn to the backend, but I was comfortable in front end as well. (Just don't ask me to design anything, my eye for aesthetics/CSS sorcery is terrible.)
The overall experience has been pretty mixed, but we were mostly unsatisfied. We weren't given then help we were promised. The explanations weren't exactly crystal clear, so we would have to teach ourselves and each other quite a bit. We worked together a lot. Some people really fell behind, some caught up, some flew ahead and thrived. (I'm somewhere between caught up and thrived, I recognize where I stand.)
I'm happy I did a bootcamp, they aren't miracle programs, but they at least kick you into place that you are learning and need to continue to learn. (Just kinda wish I had done a different one.)
Feel free to ask about anything concerning it!
What a coincidence. JQuery gets an update to 3.4.0 - and I removed the JQuery dependency that a mid-sized widget (15 kB minified) needed.
Rewriting the selector, css and trim stuff was easy. Each, children, append, empty, remove and extend were not too hard. Animations gave me more headache, but in the end, JS triggered CSS transitions worked nicely.
I was able to shave off the usual 30 kB over the wire for JQuery, and the whole thing seems snappier. Finally, I'm at vanilla everything!
Of course, it's largely due to JQuery's merits that vanilla JS is where it is today. So, thank you JQuery, and farewell.3
Then I got to PHP during the years from some online tutorial about making dynamic websites. My website was more static than stone, but yeah, I did page loading with PHP! Awful experience anyway, because I had to install Xampp, get it work and other stuff. 11 years old or so. (and I used Xampp only as a fileserver between laptop and desktop later, because.. PHP4... just no.)
As 12 years old or so I experienced my first World of Warcraft (vanilla) on a custom server in an internet cafe and I thought it's a singleplayer game. When I found out that no, I googled how to make my own server (hated multiplayer back then and loved good games with huge storylines). Failed miserably with ManGOS, got something to work with ArcEMU. There I learned some C++ basic stuff, which I hoped would helped me to fix some bugs. When I opened the code I was like: "Suuure." and left it like that. I learned what a MySQL database is, broke it like four times when I forgot WHERE and still rather played with websites i.e. html, css, js and optionally php when I wanted to repair a webpage for the server. With a friend we managed to get the server work via Hamachi, was fun, the server died too soon. Then I got ManGOS to work, but there wasn't really any interest to make a server anymore, just singleplayer for the lore. (big warcraft fan, don't kick me :D )
I think it was when I was 13y.o. I went to Delphi/Pascal course, which I liked a lot from the beginning, even managed to use my code on old Knoppix via Lazarus(Pascal). At this age I really liked thoae Flash games which were still common to see everywhere. So I downloaded .swfs, opened and tried to understand it. Managed to pull some stuff from it and rewrite in Pascal. Nope, never again that crap.
About the same time I got to Flash files I discovered Java. It was kind of popular back then, so I thought let's give it a try. I liked Flash more. Seriously. I've never seen so much repetitiveness and stupid styling of a code. I had either IDE for compiling C++ or Pascal or notepad! You think I wanted my code kicked all over the place in multiple folders and files? No.
So back to Pascal. I made some apps for my old hobby, was quite satisfied with the result (quiz like app), but it still wasn't the thing. And I really thought I'd like to study CS.
I started to love PHP because of phpBB forums I worked on as 15 y.o. I guess. At the same time I think there was an optional subject at school, again with Pascal. I hated the subject, teacher spoke some kind of gibberish I didn't really understand back then at all and now I find it only as a really stupid explanation of loops and strings.
So I started to hate Pascal subject, but not really the lang itself. Still I wanted something simpler and more portable. Then I got to Python as hm, 17y.o. I think and at the same time to C++ with DevC++. That was time when I was still deciding which lang to choose as my main one (still playing with website, database and js).
Then I decided that learning language from some teacher in a class seriously pisses me off and I don't want to experience it again. I choose Python, but still made some little scripts in C++, which is funny, because Python was considered only as a scripting lang back then.
I haven't really find a cross-platform framework for C++, which would: a) be easy to install b) not require VisualStudio PayForMe 20xy c) have nice license if I managed to make something nice and distribute it. I found Unity3D though, so I played with Blender for models, Audacity for music and C# for code. Only beautiful memories with Unity. I still haven't thought I'm a programmer back then.
For Python however I found Kivy and I was playing with it on a phone for about a year. Still I haven't really know what to do back then, so I thought... I like math, numbers, coding, but I want to avoid studying physics. Economics here I go!
Now I'm in my third year at Uni, should be writing thesis, study hard and what I do? Code like never before, contribute, work on a 3D tutorial and play with Blender. Still I don't really think about myself as a programmer, rather hobby-coder.
So, to answer the question: how did I learn to program? Bashing to shit until it behaved like I desired i.e. try-fail learning. I wouldn't choose a different path.2
I started a new project and only use PHP, HTML, CSS and vanilla JS. No Frameworks. No React. No Vue.
The browser loads the page instantly, there is virtually no loading time and it just works.12
I love CSS, but don't like preprocessors (like SASS, Less, or Stylus) :/ There's nothing more beautiful than vanilla CSS with zero workflow :)10
I just styled something that appears to be an "parent" style change when a certain "child" was hovered.
Vanilla CSS. I think I've seen it all now.
My brain is spaghetti right now 🤪1
Why do people hate jQuery so much? 30KB is basically nothing in times of modern bandwidth and for me CSS selectors are mich more readable than the Vanilla JS functions.
Im not judging and would be happy if someone explains it to me or shows better alternatives.4
I feel like I know what I shouldn't know. I know a little about using jQ and JS (mainly little plugins) but I can't code js from scratch.
I use vanilla html and css and my environment is notepad++.
I feel like I should know SASS, Pug and use Webstorms or some other professional IDE. And learn js.
Which preprocessors do you prefer? Which IDEs and which point to start learning js from scratch?8
I don't really find any use of css framework for a website. One can primary use vanilla CSS for coloring buttons, navbar, responsiveness, etc. What do u guys think?
Tbh, I've only used bootstrap and didn't find any special thing about it.9
@ everyone who keeps pushing Vue via node
Vue via npm:
- bundling so you can save 15% on car insurance
- webpack/etc to condense your 50TB node_modules folder
- have to deploy, if you're in the US then it'll probably be in the middle East or maybe North Korea if that falls out
Vue via script tag:
- works awesome
- pretty feckin fast
- can be deployed purely static
- easy debugging from dev console
- easy templating for frontend
- can use existing html/css
- easy to work in teams with people without having everyone install npm
- if you have a designer they will love you for making it easy to style things
- you can cache it and make it offline without any of the new bullshit vuex
- you can use vanilla libraries without a mixin, polyfill, bundler, or etc anus
I'm a rather young developer, self-learned everything and started when I was 13 (now 20) but I still feel like I'm a total beginner since I have not yet mastered the things I am OK at.
Php (laravel, since it makes things much easier), js (jquery, bad at vanilla, have used angular and ember but not mastered), node, linux, html, css, photoshop, illustrator, sql, mongo and windows servers
I know little about many things, can create things that are asked of me but the methods I use are rather bad imo.. ex: I finish coding a section of a site, but when I need to add a new feature I find myself rewriting most of the stuff to add the new feature and in the end still feeling like the code could be optimized further, even though I have no idea how.
TL;DR I write bad code, but things work as long as I am monitoring them. I know little about alot of stuff but mastered none of them.
What should I do? Go to school for programming?8
How many languages does one have to learn...? Learnt C, C++ and Java because of college courses. Learnt HTML, CSS, and vanilla JS because I wanted to learn frontend. Now learning R for big data analytics. Today, I came to know that I need to learn more Java or start learning Python for Hadoop...!!
HOLY FUCK! Why is JS world so fucking confusing? I haven't even started learning it and its already giving me a headache. I feel like there are a billion different things i have to learn that aren't just "vanilla js". All i want to do is learn some web dev, take on freelance work, become a digital nomad. Im a simple C++ and ios/android developer things are so straight forward. JS seems like a clusterfuck of just stuff 😧 Id like to say this isnt a my language is > than yours rant. This is a "like what the fuck" rant. My brain was like Html, Css, JS cool thats all i have to learn... boy was i wrong. Can someone give me a word of wisdom as i go down this apparent rabbit hole?6
Really trying to tutor my friend so he can land a front end position. He's currently working in fast food and is about to be hit by crippling student loan debt. Is there anything better I can do to give him a hand? I'm fairly entry level myself but I know what I'm doing. I've started teaching him Git and told him to focus on knowing HTML and CSS, and to use vanilla JS if he wants to practice.
He's still really early on, like trying to figure out which elements have hrefs and trying to remember the difference between classes and IDs. Think I'll be able to coach him into an internship offer by the end of the year?4
tl;dr: "Hey everyone plz look at me! I'v rebranded 'Vanilla CSS', look at me plz!!!"
...How to create a buzzword, lesson 1 :
Make a blog post about your freshly-pooped buzzword and start that same post by some poorly crafted pseudo-meta-thinking about buzzwords, just enough to try hard enforcing the idea that we still don't have enough of these bullshits and so yours is needed even if it's totally useless.
Worst of all I did find StackOverflow answers with the framework solution but it's so easy in CSS
Is there a sane way to allow external styling of vanilla web components' shadow dom? Right now I do it by using 30 CSS variables, but I feel like there should be a better way.7
In the beginning there was Vanilla that generate HTML which felt in love with CSS .....it passes a long time thus this pure essences creates a lot of frameworks and libraries thus the time has passed and Angular make love with React saying each other "I LoVue" and thus generate Vue.... a Vue-tiful creature 😄1
Hey guys, so i have a dilemma. I am an aspiring front end developer who has learnt html, css and i have solid vanilla experience with various random projects. Now i wanna learn a framework/library
thoroughly and i cant decide between React or Vue. I tried out both and i don't have a preference.. There are still more React jobs in my country but Vue is becoming more and more popular.. What do i do now8
I prefer to write desktop applications or mobile applications (android). Only time I touched web-applications so far was for school.
Tbh, I hate it the way have to do it in school. vanilla js, no css framework, JSP backend (sometimes php 5.4) and that rounded up with eclipse indigo.
Let's not even talk about the fact that we never really talked about js or css in school, so that was even harder for me too begin with (still suck at both of them imo)
I can't express my gratitude for js and css frameworks. They make web development much more fun for me.
💖 laravel, vuejs, materializecss💖
Feel free to suggest me other things, I only completed 2 project with these1
I thought I might give bootstrap a chance by recreating an existing website. Problem is that this website is "simpler" with a carousel and a dark mode toggle being the few more complicated features, so it might be even faster to simply write the CSS myself and get my hands dirty. Using bootstrap for this seems more and more overkill, the more I look at it. On the other hand I know bootstrap already takes much care of responsiveness and vendor-prefixes and so on. What have I gotten myself into with bootstrap...21
Okay so i am trying my hands in web dev, majorly the backend stuff and my aim is to launch a simple web app in a production grade environment, to get a basic knowledge of various tools.
So i had the following project in mind: "save my secret string" . this is going to be a minimal site with 2 blocks.
in the first block in which user can add an id_string and data_string, and press enter. on pressing enter, the data will get saved in backend. if the id is already used, it will over write it with new data.
in the second block there's going to be a search button and an output area where user can enter the id string and get output( no matter who added the output, if key is correct, they can access it) if its available in the database. Kind of like a pastebin, but without any links
is it a simple project to learn the back end basics?I plan to add more features to it and later convert it to full scale blog site.
So can you help with a few pointers on what should i be looking upon to get it running like a full production app ? I know of a few buzz words that production apps use in their environment: docker multi containers, vanilla html/css/js , some form of encryption lib, aws instances and vpc / multi user ec2, mysql, postman and some kind of js framework for sql queries( i guess that's postgres)
I don't really know much about any of them, so can you help me with a flow on what should i learn to make this app possible?