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Search - "time-is-gold"
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Worst dev I've interviewed?
"Archie" ran his own consulting business for almost 20 years. Prior to his interview, Archie sent HR (to send to us) his company's website, where he had samples of code for us to review (which was not bad, this guy did know his stuff).
What I found odd was Archie was the lone wolf at his company, but everything I found about him (the about page, his bio, etc), Archie was referred to as 'Mr. Archie Brown'.
Ex. 'Mr. Archie Brown began his humble career and 'Mr. Archie Brown is active in his church and volunteers his time in many charities ...'
Odd to refer to yourself in the third person on your own site, but OK, I like putting hot sauce on my mac & cheese (no judgement here).
Then the interview..standard stuff, then..
Me: "Given your experience, this is an entry level developer position. Do you feel the work would be challenging enough for you?"
Archie: "Yes, Mr. Archie Brown would have no problem starting at bottom. You see ..."
Almost any time he would reference himself, instead of 'me' or 'I', he would say 'Mr. Archie Brown'. As the interview continued, the ego and self-importance grew and grew.
My interview partner wanted to be done by using the escape clause, "PaperTrail, I'm good, do you have any questions?"
Yes, yes I do. I was having too much fun listening to this guy ramble on about himself. I made the interview go the full hour with the majority of time 'Archie' telling us how great he is.
The icing on the cake was my partner caught his gold cuff-links and tie-pin where his initials and how he kept raising his hands and playing with his tie to show us (which I totally missed, then was like "oh yea, that was weird")
After the interview, talking with HR:
HR-Jake: "How did it go?"
John: "Terrible. One of the worst. We would have been done in 10 minutes if PaperTrail didn't keep asking questions."
Me: "Are you kidding!? I had the best time ever. I wish I could have stayed longer."
HR-Jake: "Really? This guy was so full of himself I wasn't sure to even schedule with you guys. With his experience, I thought it deserved at least a round with you two. You think we should give him a chance?"
Me: "Hell no. Never in a million years, no. I never in my whole life met anyone with such a big ego. I mean, he kept referring to himself in the third person. Who does that?"
HR-Jake: "Whew!...yea, he did that in the phone interview too. It was a red flag for us as well."
Couple of weeks later I ran into HR-Jake in the break room.
HR-Jake: "Remember Mr. Archie Brown?"
Me: "To my dying day, I will never forget Mr. Archie Brown."
HR-Jake: "I called him later that day to tell him the good news and he accused me of being a racist. If we didn't give him the job, he was getting a lawyer and sue us for discrimination."
Me: "What the frack!"
HR-Jake: "Yep, and guess what? Got a letter from his lawyer today. I don't think a case will come in front of a judge, but if you have any notes from the interview, I'll need them."
Me: "What are we going to do?"
HR-Jake: "Play the waiting game between lawyers. We're pretty sure he'll run out of money before we do."
After about 6 months, and a theft conviction (that story made the local paper), Mr. Archie Brooks dropped his case (or his lawyers did).23 -
So I told my wife one week ago: "Yeah, you should totally learn to code as well!"
Yesterday a package arrived, containing a really beautiful hardcover book bound in leather, with a gold foil image of a snake debossed into the cover, with the text "In the face of ambiguity -- Refuse the temptation to guess" on it.
Well, OK, that's weird.
My wife snatches it and says: "I had that custom made by a book binder". I flip through it. It contains the Python 3.9 language reference, and the PEP 8 styleguide.
While I usually dislike paper dev books because they become outdated over time, I'm perplexed by this one, because of how much effort and craftsmanship went in to it. I'm even a little jealous.
So, this morning I was putting dishes into the dishwasher, and she says: "Please let me do that". I ask: "Am I doing anything wrong?"
Wife responds: "Well, it's not necessarily wrong, I mean, it works, doesn't it? But your methods aren't very pythonic. Your conventions aren't elegant at all". I don't think I've heard anyone say the word "pythonic" to me in over a decade.
And just now my wife was looking over my shoulder as I was debugging some lower level Rust code filled with network buffers and hex literals, and she says: "Pffffff unbelievable, I thought you were a senior developer. That code is really bad, there are way too many abbreviated things. Readability counts! I bet if you used Python, your code would actually work!"
I think I might have released something really evil upon the world.28 -
can be explaned by space/time difference when you switch to standard usage vs the current you are in and violate a bit. lols
1 -
> Root struggles with her ticket
> Boss struggles too
> Also: random thoughts about this job
I've been sick lately, and it's the kind of sick where I'm exhausted all day, every day (infuriatingly, except at night). While tired, I can't think, so I can't really work, but I'm during my probationary period at work, so I've still been doing my best -- which, honestly, is pretty shit right now.
My current project involves legal agreements, and changing agent authorization methods (written, telephone recording, or letting the user click a link). Each of these, and depending on the type of transaction, requires a different legal agreement. And the logic and structure surrounding these is intricate and confusing to follow. I've been struggling through this and the project's ever-expanding scope for weeks, and specifically the agreements logic for the past few days. I've felt embarrassed and guilty for making so little progress, and that (and a bunch of other things) are making me depressed.
Today, I finally gave up and asked my boss for help. We had an hour and a half call where we worked through it together (at 6pm...). Despite having written quite a bit of the code and tests, he was often saying things like "How is this not working? This doesn't make any sense." So I don't feel quite so bad now.
I knew the code was complex and sprawling and unintuitive, but seeing one of its authors struggling too was really cathartic.
On an unrelated note, I asked the most senior dev (a Macintosh Lisa dev) why everything was using strings instead of symbols (in Rails) since symbols are much faster. That got him looking into the benchmarks, and he found that symbols are about twice as fast (for his minimal test, anyway), and he suggested we switch to those. His word is gold; mine is ignorable. kind of annoying. but anyway, he further went into optimizing the lookup of a giant array of strings, and discovered bsearch. (it's a divide-and-conquer lookup). and here I am wondering why they didn't implement it that way to begin with. 🙄
I don't think I'm learning much here, except how to work with a "mature" codebase. To take a page from @Rutee07, I think "mature" here means the same as in porn: not something you ever want ot see or think about.
I mean, I'm learning other things, too, like how to delegate methods from one model to another, but I have yet to see why you would want to. Every use of it I've explored thus far has just complicated things, like delegating methods on a child of a 1:n relation to the parent. Which child? How does that work? No bloody clue! but it does, somehow, after I copy/pasted a bunch of esoteric legacy bs and fussed with it enough.
I feel like once I get a good grasp of the various payment wrappers, verification/anti-fraud integration, and per-business fraud rules I'll have learned most of what they can offer. Specifically those because I had written a baby version of them at a previous job (Hell), and was trying to architect exactly what this company already has built.
I like a few things about this company. I like my boss. I like the remote work. I like the code reviews. I like the pay. I like the office and some socializing twice a year.
But I don't like the codebase. at all. and I don't have any friends here. My boss is friendly, but he's not a friend. I feel like my last boss (both bosses) were, or could have been if I was more social. But here? I feel alone. I'm assigned work, and my boss is friendly when talking about work, but that's all he's there for. Out of the two female devs I work with, one basically just ignores me, and the other only ever talks about work in ways I can barely understand, and she's a little pushy, and just... really irritating. The "senior" devs (in quotes because they're honestly not amazing) just don't have time, which i understand. but at the same time... i don't have *anyone* to talk to. It really sucks.
I'm not happy here.
I miss my last job.
But the reason I left that one is because this job allows me to move and work remotely. I got a counter-offer from them exactly matching my current job, sans the code reviews. but we haven't moved yet. and if I leave and go back there without having moved, it'll look like i just abandoned them. and that's the last thing I want them to think.
So, I'm stuck here for awhile.
not that it's a bad thing, but i'm feeling overwhelmed and stressed. and it's just not a good fit. but maybe I'll actually start learning things. and I suppose that's also why I took the job.
So, ever onward, I guess.
It would just be nice if I could take some of the happy along with me.7 -
Story time!
A little over a year ago I was in the hiring process with a new company and countered their initial offer. I was told by the CTO that it was no problem and they would get back to me soon.
A couple days go by and I'm then informed that they're hiring a new IT director and would like me to interview with him as well. It felt kinda lame since I'd already been offered the job but I rolled with it.
When I showed up to the office for an interview I tried to call and let them know I was there and couldn't get a hold of anyone. 30 minutes later I get a call from the CTO saying they couldn't find the new IT director and when they got him to answer the phone he said he had left early and would call me to do a phone interview.
Obviously the whole experience so far has been pretty lame but I stuck with it because I knew the CTO personally. I did the phone interview and quickly realized this dude was a prick, and would be a terrible boss, but I spoke with the CTO again who told me to stick with it and eventually I did get the job.
Fast forward about a month and it's clear the new director is trash. He literally bragged about firing a dude over an accidental outage (wtf!?).
He had the technical experience you'd expect of a junior help desk and his management skills were pretty clearly sub-par.
He was also, for whatever reason, completely unable to communicate with the only woman on our team. When assigning work he would always feel the need to ask if she could 'handle it' rather than just assigning it to her like it's done for everyone else. He was pretty clearly sexist.
The whole team hates this dude by this point but he's somehow managed to woo the executives into thinking he shits gold.
I was helping him set up a Python venv on his machine when I noticed another VPN client installed which certainly piqued my interest. After a bit of digging it was clear he was using company time and company equipment to continue working for his previous employer.
We turned over logs and he was fired the next day. He tried to add me on LinkedIn afterwards and I have never declined something quicker.
Moral of the story is don't be a dickhead.1 -
You can believe or not but it’s just one of those stories. It’s long and crazy and it probably happened.
A few years ago I was interviewed by this big insurance company. They asked me on linkedin and were interested. They didn’t specify who they were so I didn’t specify who I am either.
After they revealed who they are I was just curious how they fuck they want to spend those billions of dollars they claimed in their press notes about this fucking digital transformation everyone is talking about. The numbers were big.
I got into 3 or 4 phone/skype interviews without technical questions and I was invited to see them by person.
I know that it would be funny because they didn’t asked me for CV so they didn’t know anything about me and I was just more curious how far I can get without revealing myself.
They canceled interview at midnight and I was in the middle of Louis de Funès comedies marathon so I didn’t sleep whole night. I assumed they would just reschedule but then they phoned me at 8 am if I can come because they made mistake.
So at first talk I was just interviewed by some manager I knowed after 5 minutes he would be shitty as fuck and demand stupid things in no time because he is not technical. He was trying to explain me that they got so great people and they do everything so fast.
From my experience speed and programming are not the things that match. ( for reference of my thought see three virtues of a GREAT programmer )
So I just pissed them off by asking what they would do with me when I finish this transformation thingy next year. ( Probably get rid off and fire at some point were my thoughts )
Then I got this technical interview on newest gold color MacBook pro - pair programming ( they were showing off how much money they have all the time ).
The person asked me to transform json and get some data in javascript .
Really that was the thing and I was so bored and tired that I just asked in what ES standard I can code.
The problem was despite he told me I can do anything and they are using newest standards ( yeah right ) the “for of” loop didn’t worked and he even didn’t know that syntax existed. So I explained him it’s the newest syntax pointing mozilla page and that he need to adjust his configuration. Because we didn’t have time for that I just did it using var an function by writing bunch of code.
When he was asking me if I want to write some tests probably because my code looked ugly as fuck ( I didn’t sleep for more then 24 hours at that point and wanted to live the building as fast as I can) I told I finished and there is no time for tests because it’s so simple and dumb task. The code worked.
After showing me how awesome their office is ( yeah please I work from home so I don’t care ) I got into the talk with VP of engineering and he was the only person who asked me where is my CV because he didn’t know what to talk about. I just laughed at him and told him that I got here just by talking how awesome I am so we can talk about whatever he wants.
After quick talk about 4 different problems where I introduced 4 different languages and bunch of libraries just because I can and I worked with those he was mine.
He told me about this awesome stack they’re building with kubernetes and micro services and the shitty future where they want to put IOT into peoples ass to sell them insurance and suddenly I got awake and started to want that job but behind that all awesomeness there was just .NET bridge with stack of mainframes running COBOL that they want to get rid off and move company to the cloud.
They needed mostly people who would dump code to different technology stack and get rid of old stack ( and probably those old people ) and I was bored again because I work more in r&d field where you sometimes need to think about something that don’t exist and be creative.
I asked him why it would take so much time so he explained me how they would do the transformation by consolidating bunch of companies and how much money they would make by probably firing people that don’t know about it to this day.
I didn’t met any person working permanently there but only consultants from corporations and people hired in some 3rd party company created by this mother company.
They didn’t responded with any decision after me wasting so much time and they asked me for interview for another position year after.
I just explained HR person how they treat people and I don’t want to work there for any money.
If You reached this point it is the end and if it was entertaining thank YOU I did my best.
Have a nice day.5 -
The last person who might have taken offense at this recently quit, so time for a consequence-free rant. I just want to say...
Fuck absolutely every single one of my teammates who quit this year. Fuck your shitty, undocumented spaghetti code from hell that the rest of us will have to rewrite because it's utterly broken and functions mostly on prayer and luck. Fuck the 1000+ git repos we'll have to rename so we can even begin to tell them apart. Fuck your complete lack of any sort of processes or procedures or standards. Fuck the person who hated tickets and decided we could just have hundreds of people ask us for help on Slack whenever they need it. Fuck the people who quit because we got a new manager who told us we need to support the applications we build. Fuck the person who said "I'm leaving because I want to move forwards instead of backwards" as if fixing bugs in the code YOU WROTE TWO WEEKS AGO is really moving backwards. Fuck the two people who designed their own separate pipelines and then used both without bothering to debate and pick the better one (spoiler: both are completely undocumented and broken as hell).
I hope your various new employers figure out that your strategy of covering shit with gold paint doesn't change the smell.
Now the rest of us have to fix it all, and we're probably going to start by demolishing most of it so we can rebuild it from scratch.12 -
Resumes don't mean jack shit!!
I just got off an interview call with a candidate for a hardware role. On paper this guy is absolute gold, having worked for some of the best robotics companies and research groups(in India at least) It took me an hour to realize that the was just spitting out buzz words. So I started asking him some very fundamental questions, like ohms law and such.. high school stuff. But, phrased in real world terms. And it took me another half an hour to realize that the guy is dumber than a sack of peanuts!
I can't believe how easy it is for people to coast by on paths paved by seniors and teammates. By any objective assessment this guy would be lucky to get a job as an electrician and instead I'm wasting my time interviewing him for a six figure salary (well, the Indian equivalent). Gaaah!!7 -
Casual workday be like:
Project manager: It is important we deliver these features.
Me & Coworker: Sounds reasonable, here is how long we need, roughly.
Mgr: Well, the deadline is already set and the contract is signed and written.
M&C: Ummm...
Mgr: Also, while we are hosting the application, we are not paid for operational cost, so make sure to optimise the crap out of it immediatly. Preferably while developing the features.
(A wild architect appears): Also everything has to be built on cans and kubernuts, with rectangular ui and bootstyling and with these internally developed backend frameworks NOBODY tests. Coroporate policy you know.
(A wilder division CEO appears on meeting): Also we are rolling out code KPI's across the organisation. Everyone is expected to Focus on documentation, test coverage and there is now mandatory SonarQube scanning of repos. ZERO DEFECTS PEOPLE
M&C: ...
(Wildest Salesteam appears): By the way we sold the application to these other customers, they love feature XYZ and must have it.
M&C: It does not have feature XYZ
Mgr: It will have feature XYZ
M&C: Allright so with all the extra funding from the sales, we need to hire atleast one Machine learning guy, an extra frontend specialist a developer and maybe funnel some of the funding into slacking the operational budget in the start.
Animated Suit *Railing a line of coke from his gold plated ihpone 15*: What funding? Get to work. Also your havent been super sharp with your time registration.
2 -
My potato lagged with the temperature too high error message.
So I decided to operate on it. Last operation was about 40months ago or more.
Every time I opened and reassemble something, I always ended up with extra screws (check comments). Wish they were gold 🤔
And this is probably the last operation I could perform on it. I must save fast to buy a desktop 😥
13 -
I did some grave and irreversible mistakes in my life
- Never gathered enough courage to mingle with women when I was younger and now the hope is lost
- Compromised my values and mental wellness when I met a narcissistic bitch
- Did not invest money wisely when markets were sailing low and allowed that good sum to sit in bank
- Did not plan health and term insurance at early age when premiums could have been low
- Out of fear, did not follow my gut to purchase gold because my father was acting crazy (or else my money would have been doubled)
- Did not plan my taxation well (or until now would have paid almost zero tax)
- Did not define strict boundaries and allowed people to overstep (or else I would have better friends and family relationships)
- Did not quit my job early and stuck with low paying shit with negative learning, for years (or else I would have grown exponentially)
Thankfully few things I did right are, spending more time with my mom and learning from my mistakes.
I hope I don't make such stupid life choices again.12 -
My apprentice is driving me nuts with his failed attempts on gold-plating.
The task "Get the data and export it to a file" becomes ""After many attempts to get the data via a different query than we worked out together I now finally got it and it makes sense if it was displayed but only one set of data at a time and it should also be selected what data should be exported and I have no idea how to do that so Cero, can you help me?".
Dang it dude, just show me for once that you can do 1 clearly decribed task, where you have many examples to work with, and NOT try to add any extras!
I am now working on how to tell him this in a nicer way...2 -
Bring the fun and curiosity back.
School education? Mostly rinse and repeat, learn from heart and do as you are told.
First job? Take these bread crumbs, shit out gold ingots, please.
There are few who had either very kind and gifted teachers / persons in their life or had a strong will / desire to learn by / for themselves - but it's hard to combine fun and curiosity with the - most of the time - very harsh reality and environment we live in.
I'd really wish that it would get back to fun and curiosity and not the endless myriad of bitching, hissing and fighting it usually is.
What I find most tiresome in education is the overflow of information with no value - most content is outdated, wrong, harmful, not precise and especially not helpful.
Thinking about good education I've got very fond memories of hanging out in IRC chats, talking with people who were "ancient" (la me 15-20, them 40 plus ;) ) and not being "shood" away, but rather getting fed by book recommendations, hints, appointments when they had more spare time to explain in private IRC sessions etc.
The atmosphere was always a "we might not have time for it, but we'll try and don't worry if you don't understand it".
When I'm trying to find information today... It's really 90 - 95 % filtering, 4 % try and error, 1 % finding what I need.3 -
!rant
Going to the gym really helps with concentration and may give you time to focus on things that are unresolved on your codebase.
It will also make you sexy as hell. Being sexy as all hell is good and gold.
Remember that10 -
so i ordered free samples of microcontrollers because i didnt want to waste money... in the receipt, i saw Oct 28, 2017 and im like oh cool i guess ill receive it on that date.
today they sent me an email saying they have already shipped the package today and im like wtf why just now and i looked over the receipt again and saw:
SHIPMENT DATE: October 28, 2017
i swear to god i flippes shit because it may actually arrive in a month or two and the project has to be submitted in a month. goddamit and there is no other way! i have to buy it :(( the worst part of it is that i have another set of microcontrollers TO BE SHIPPED in January. theyre for the next project which should be submitted in January.
lesson: TIME IS FUCKING GOLD. if u want free sample, order them at least 3 months before u start the project.3 -
I hate the feeling you get when you do a lengthy, drooling task that once finished got you nowhere.
My day was mostly productive for a Sunday, woke up late as all Sundays, spent the afternoon writing a proposal and exercising when I saw a notification for a homework for tonight at 12.
A research paper about Dijkstra's philosopher problem, 8 pages minimum. To be honest I've seen the problem a long time ago while studying C++ and I had the theory down and that is my issue, it becomes inherently boring and useless in my head. Is in this situations that my mind gets lazy.
I wrote the first 3 pages in half an hour but I was done, I started revising the proposal and fixed a calculation error, checked Rust's take on the philosophers issue and decided to save it for winter break along with learning Rust (although got some basics down), made rough budget approximations for the next 3 months, lost myself a little bit on deep house music (notable tracks tadow from masego, nevermind - Dennis Lloyd and gold - Chet faker), etc...all in all it took me 3 hours more to finish the assignment, including breaks and dinner.
I am working on a lot of stuff lately and my main project's sprint ends this Tuesday and it pisses me off, after all that I learnt nothing new, got nowhere with my project and will probably get 80 because Google docs has no margin setting. Worse than being lazy for fun is inevitably being lazy for being compelled to do low priority tasks by your head's standards.
6 -
My experience two weeks into being married:
1. Any other couple can fuck off. We're the protagonists now.
2. My sleep schedule has done a complete 180. I start my day at 7 am now, previously it was 12 afternoon. I also sleep early at 10 pm now. I feel a lot better about this schedule tbh.
3. My wife has an office job, so I get my work done in peace and am able to wrap up my day early to make time for her when she gets home.
4. She's serious about investments, stock market, SIPs, Gold prices or whatever and actively puts money into those things. Good for me.
5. Going out with her is actually fun, because we plan our Sunday ahead of time. I used to scoff at other couples before, but now I get it. It may look cringy from the outside but not to me it doesn't.29 -
It's was the forth year of my college, in the corner of the world in south India, I wanted to something to combine both medicine and the coding that I learnt, I started learning about heart murmurs, it's basically a skill based diagnosis that only 1 in 20 heart specialists can make by hearing the heart beat and listening to a small murmur that happens during the systolic cycle or the diastolic cycle. I wrote a program to learn a lot of sample murmurs and try to find (very bad hand made logic) the similarities between two wave patterns, the problem started with noise so I went out and built a new stethoscope with a carbon mic inside a normal stethoscope head and try filtering the sound at source (worked well enough at that time) I then tried to find people to test it on, but alas I was not able to find patients as doctors are not supposed to reveal them etc. I wanted to show them visually how a murmur pattern would look like and I stole some code and made a plotter for the wav file and presented everything. By that time I got a lot of close amazing friends involved and they helped me solidify the project and we won the best project award and I got my first gold medal of my life at the end of my academic life :) it was one of the best moments of my life. Second only to the joy of getting married to wife. May be third if I put getting a job in Microsoft India Development Center.
I still wish I could dig that code up and write it properly with what I have learnt today but work is never ending and I find great problems to solve everyday which I know I can make a difference, may be when I get retired I will dust out that CD with the decades old c++ code and write one last program...3 -
Windows 10 updating, decides it would be cool to install gigabytes of sdk, edge, and other bloatware without asking first, on a metered connection i use for work.
Guys, between you there and those fanboy demons in cupertino, one wants to just shut it all off and return to monke.
Sidenote this, because all of this nonsense started on that crap called Windows 8, which was in the end caused to copy that Unholy crap (sold as gold) that is Apple's range of products. It's a company that sells designs nowadays, like Prada, to say, Jobs era is long gone. Everything related to Apple, Mac, Safari, Development, Gaming, UI/UX, productivity and whatever is a
f***ing Nightmare.
We alreay have a global plague, and Apple exists, we dont' need you too making another catastrophe.
All this said,
Use your goddamn trillions to create your own customizable environment that is stable, fast, and WITHOUT BULLSHIT.
I don't give a mindflying F**k of the blurs, i know how to place them with a shell, if i need those. I want control, the shit i decide is going to happen, to happen fast.
This is of Critical importance, because it defines my productivity. And considering we're all sealed indoors since 2019, i want to get away from my pc asap and live my life, instead of spending time(and money, in this moment of emergency) fixing your F**kfests, or else seeing my pc slowing down to death.
First: IF i want stuff on my pc, I know how to install something, thank you.
Second: You can take it, all your Useless - Bugged as Hell - Nonsensical - and of no practical use Bloatware, and shove it deep in your Backdoor.
I'll debloat my pc with batches again, and there's nothing you can do to stop me doing that at every update you force me into.
So please, stop wasting my time, and yours.4 -
As a new freelancer I didn't have much clients , so I paired with a web designer +10 years exp. who work with me as a pm and that was a bad decision.
Although I am a back-end dev , half of the projects were frontend/WordPress theme (less price than back-end projecrs) - so 30% of the projects were cancelled .
sometimes I receive project's which have requirement, like magento, I don't know anything about ,
I tried to push myself but I burned out after six month.
he deals with clients, partner with other companies ,and I don't know anything about the terms.
at the end I was like an employee without any benefits from his company .
moreover I get my money after 45 day!!!
and not all my money .
this is a project I work for another company through him
A requirement for mobile back-end server was integrating with parse and that was my first time working with Facebook parse so ....
after two weeks ..
we received email from parse that they'll shutdown their service after a year .
so we moved to Amazon sns again my first time working with aws .
at the end I can't charge for extra money but my pm became a gold partner for that company .
the only thing that made me hold is that I need some high quality projects for my c.v.
-----------
he didn't show on hangout because I need my money .
this will be my last project with him.
wow I write too much ... I feel better now .😥1 -
When the CTO/CEO of your "startup" is always AFK and it takes weeks to get anything approved by them (or even secure a meeting with them) and they have almost-exclusive access to production and the admin account for all third party services.
Want to create a new messaging channel? Too bad! What about a new repository for that cool idea you had, or that new microservice you're expected to build. Expect to be blocked for at least a week.
When they also hold themselves solely responsible for security and operations, they've built their own proprietary framework that handles all the authentication, database models and microservice communications.
Speaking of which, there's more than six microservices per developer!
Oh there's a bug or limitation in the framework? Too bad. It's a black box that nobody else in the company can touch. Good luck with the two week lead time on getting anything changed there. Oh and there's no dedicated issue tracker. Have you heard of email?
When the systems and processes in place were designed for "consistency" and "scalability" in mind you can be certain that everything is consistently broken at scale. Each microservice offers:
1. Anemic & non-idempotent CRUD APIs (Can't believe it's not a Database Table™) because the consumer should do all the work.
2. Race Conditions, because transactions are "not portable" (but not to worry, all the code is written as if it were running single threaded on a single machine).
3. Fault Intolerance, just a single failure in a chain of layered microservice calls will leave the requested operation in a partially applied and corrupted state. Ger ready for manual intervention.
4. Completely Redundant Documentation, our web documentation is automatically generated and is always of the form //[FieldName] of the [ObjectName].
5. Happy Path Support, only the intended use cases and fields work, we added a bunch of others because YouAreGoingToNeedIt™ but it won't work when you do need it. The only record of this happy path is the code itself.
Consider this, you're been building a new microservice, you've carefully followed all the unwritten highly specific technical implementation standards enforced by the CTO/CEO (that your aware of). You've decided to write some unit tests, well um.. didn't you know? There's nothing scalable and consistent about running the system locally! That's not built-in to the framework. So just use curl to test your service whilst it is deployed or connected to the development environment. Then you can open a PR and once it has been approved it will be included in the next full deployment (at least a week later).
Most new 'services' feel like the are about one to five days of writing straightforward code followed by weeks to months of integration hell, testing and blocked dependencies.
When confronted/advised about these issues the response from the CTO/CEO
varies:
(A) "yes but it's an edge case, the cloud is highly available and reliable, our software doesn't crash frequently".
(B) "yes, that's why I'm thinking about adding [idempotency] to the framework to address that when I'm not so busy" two weeks go by...
(C) "yes, but we are still doing better than all of our competitors".
(D) "oh, but you can just [highly specific sequence of undocumented steps, that probably won't work when you try it].
(E) "yes, let's setup a meeting to go through this in more detail" *doesn't show up to the meeting*.
(F) "oh, but our customers are really happy with our level of [Documentation]".
Sometimes it can feel like a bit of a cult, as all of the project managers (and some of the developers) see the CTO/CEO as a sort of 'programming god' because they are never blocked on anything they work on, they're able to bypass all the limitations and obstacles they've placed in front of the 'ordinary' developers.
There's been several instances where the CTO/CEO will suddenly make widespread changes to the codebase (to enforce some 'standard') without having to go through the same review process as everybody else, these changes will usually break something like the automatic build process or something in the dev environment and its up to the developers to pick up the pieces. I think developers find it intimidating to identify issues in the CTO/CEO's code because it's implicitly defined due to their status as the "gold standard".
It's certainly frustrating but I hope this story serves as a bit of a foil to those who wish they had a more technical CTO/CEO in their organisation. Does anybody else have a similar experience or is this situation an absolute one of a kind?2 -
Def not dev oriented.
I am a huge fan of trading card games. It started with Yu Gi Oh, moved on to Magic, even tried, LoTR when it was a thing, tried algo Star Wars the original CCG (loved it), Duel Masters (when it was still in the U.S) Pokemon (of fucking course) and other more uncommon ones like Cardfight Vanguard, tried latino only games (Mitos y leyendas, Myths & Legends, this one is king on my list) and Flesh & Blood. But as a mexican kid, I was always a fan of fucking dragon ball, like most mexican kids.
SO I bought some cards from the newest game expansion. the owner of the TCG/anime store told me that if I was willing to play that I should hang out on tuesdays.
So, learning the rules of the game, and wanting to play with other people, I went there on a tuesday.
The MTG people were there fighting amongst themselves for some reason. the Pokemon people were there also, just opening packs without playing. A rather large table was there with a bunch of people playing a game that I did not recognize. And then there was me. I was chilling on my phone thinking that the DB dudes would show up eventually. nothing, so I just sat there waiting.
Suddenly a dude comes to the large table and starts pairing people for a "tournament" and once they are all sited he notices that 1 is missing, he walks up to me holding a store app and asks me "sorry bro, are you here to play with us by any chance?" to which I say "I do not think so, I came here for DB but I don't know what you guys are playing"
The dude looks down on his app, somehow actually sad and says "man I do play DB, but I don't think I have my cards with me, maybe, let me see" and he goes on to see if he brought something.
This was green flag n 1. the dude wanted to just play something with someone. And was doing something to not LEAVE someone behind. then quick as hell another says "well, why don't we give him a deck and he can play with us! we can teach him!" and I say "well what are you lads playing?" and he says "digimon man you like the anime? a new release came about! it's sick man it would be awesome if you play!"
Second green flag, another member of that community was happy for the idea of increasing the membership and actively did something to increase the population.
So, I hanged out with them. Close knit group, all friends from a long time, but willing to take an unfamiliar (and rather handsome) face with them.
My face when (MFW) the DB dudes where not there, so the digimon group adopted me.
I know have over.....2000 cards, most of them were gifted to me by them after they saw my chops and tough me how to play, by graciously lending me their decks.
This my lads, is what humanity is about. We got close fast, it has been 2 weeks of just chilling with them at the game lounge, just nice people, all of them really. Not a single angry moment or anything, you pull a crazy combo on them and they legit sheeeeeeeesh and applaud them, they don't care about loosing, they just want to have a good time, and this, this is a good crowd to be at.
Strive to make people feel welcomed. Being nice to others, taking a chance on people you deem to be ok, is fine really. It is rather cool. Anyone can be a salty asshole, but it takes a real king to be nice to others just for the sake of having a good time.
These dudes, they are gold. And I finally have something to take my mind away from work and other things that increase my anxiety and stress. I would much rather be there shooting the shit with the lads and playing games than at home, drinking the night away to relieve stress.
Kings3 -
Proton is some of the most amazing software I have ever used. More games are updated all the time to gold and platinum. With the recent release of v4.2, the first major proton release downstream from wine 4, the situation has improved to a greater degree than ever.4
-
Our keyboards/mouses are getting replaced (it's a matter of years) to Bluetooth ones. No spare batteries are given. From some of the offices the helpdesk where they give you new batteries are a few kilometers away, you have to call a shuttle...
Nobody communicated, but finally turned out that there is a floor responsible who has spare batteries. Of course, they are kept in a locked down cupboard, so each time that poor person has to be interrupted if someone has a drained battery.
Shall we stay with the gold old USB keyboards?2 -
Bootcamps get you up and running in coding quickly. If you are a programmer, companies are only interested on how quickly, error free and cheaply you produce marketable output. Bootcamps enable this.
More or less you are not more than a former assembly line worker putting parts on a car platform. Your value is not very high as you may be exchanged at any time at their will.
Nevertheless, you can earn money quickly. You trade in your youth and time which might be a dead end in the long-term. Trends go to machine learning, artificial intelligence. They will not need Bootcamp people and code workers.
It is better you set up Bootcamps and sell them versus absolving this. Like selling shovels during the gold rush, but not working in the mud of Alaska by yourself.
Your choice is: Making quick money, which fades anyway; or striving for the long-term future proof career.
C/S degrees from Technical Universities of reputation give to you the right direction under a strategic consideration. Companies which pay well, or freelancing with a solid acknowledged background, will always look for top graduates. People from Bootcamps are just OK for hammering assembly line coding. Even worse with SCRUM in one noisy room under enormous team server pressure controls, counting your lines of code per minute, with pale people all around. And groups of controllers never acknowledging nor trusting your work.
To acquire a serious degree, a Bachelor is nothing. Here, in INDIA, Bachelor now is what a former high school grade was. You must carry a diploma or Masters degree combined with internships at big companies with high brand recognition. This will require 4–6 years of your lifetime. You can support this financially by working part-time freelancing as making some projects front- or back-end web, data analysis and else.
Bootcamp people will lose in the long-term. They are the modern cannon fudder of software production.
It is your choice. Personally, I would never do Bootcamps. Quality and sustainability require time, deep studies and devotion. -
i have an idea today for find job as Junior:
First of all, startups usually hire senior devs only for two reasons:
1) is critical to their business, they need people that will ensure the project will be done no matter what, seniors usually brings that to the table.
2) The startups that raise some founding, usually have 100k+ raised, that money is basically enough for hire Seniors for some time without troubles, taking into account they will usually be highly profitable in the mid term, it is not a big deal to take the risk
Today startups, at least the most interesting ones, play the game in God Mode due to that founds raising, it is like having a max level character in some MMO with insane amounts of gold, you will buy only the best gear with that gold, not the low level gear, why you want to buy low level stuff, if you can buy the best of the best? that is why Juniors are not likely to have a place in startups, they can pay the Seniors.
But, there a situation in what an startup will wish to hire some Juniors, this is situation is, when they have never raised founds, they have no Cheat Mode, this ones are usually startups that have just few weeks or months of being created, and they need the MVP ASAP, this startups usually already have one or two Mid/Senior level engineers, but they have a very highly benefit from having a Junior in their team, this guy will no take any part in the Cake, will only work for lot less money and will discharge some stuff from the Seniors (Taking into account that is a minimum competent Junior).
Here is where Juniors can get jobs, at least for start their careers, and taking into account that thousands of new startups are created every year, this is a major market.
Ok, i already test that this approach if viable, i send requests to 5 startups that meets the conditions, and got response from 4! still not make a deal, but this is a lot more than 0 response after 2 dozen of applications to more stablished startups.
What you think about this? maybe this is just the jobless syndrome attacking me fuck8 -
The fog of war over all that happened with my change of team is starting to dissipate.
3 people were involved and there were 4 different versions of the whole situtations, but from what I've been able to collect it looks like the company is expanding and one of the mail KPI for the current team leaders is how good they are at creating a NEW generation of team leaders, to take care of the new entries.
My previous team leader told me about all these new growth perspectives and the junior entries I could manage, knowing very well of the desire I have previously expressed of being a senior dev with my small group of juniors to teach.
I declined the offer, stating that this whole year has been exhausting. Every single time I've tried anything (using modules for new components on our old web client, tsdoc to document our types, suggesting technologies like ANYTHING BUT ANGULAR AND MONGO, telling how removing down migrations was a retarded move) my suggestions were either shrugged off or flat out refused. Let alone how every time I was proven right, except for angular but give it time and that will bite their tail as well.
Don't get me wrong: they are well withing their right when they take all those decisions, and more. But I DO NOT PLAN on selling a plethora of bad decisions to a new stack of devs as if they were the gold standard.
"I understand your reasons; you, as a company, need a well coordinated team all running towards a goal; loose cannons are harmful.
But now I need you to understand me: I do not agree with your technical direction. I never lied before and I will not start now. Promotions don't matter nearly as much as my integrity, and integrity in my world means speaking up about problems. Your position is perfectly valid, but mine is as well and they can't be reconciled. If I were you I'd make myself a favor and make sure IHateForALiving doesn't become a team leader; given your direction, I'm not the man you want right now".
As mentioned, one of the KPI for team leaders is how succesfull they are in finding new team leaders, and trying to turn me into one didn't end well; I love sharing knowledge, but being honest to myself is far more important to me. So this meant my previous team leader failed in a very big task, and thus was demoted? At the same time, I've been there for 2 years now so they're not really eager to replace me, but I'm under strict examination too as of now.5 -
I just realized this is the dumbest marketing stunt McDonald's can come up with
https://thrillist.com/news/nation/...
The card is actually a phone case with your name etched into it.
1. How do I use it if I'm ordering online?
2. Why is the prize meant to encourage mobile ordering a physical card to use in stores?
3. So every time the winner takes out their phone, s/he is just asking to get mugged or have it stolen?3 -
I swear last time I had this much fun on a dev social was swift and it shut down and then gitter and then quora and some I never cared about but this is gold
-
!rant/story:
Aaayoo issya boi the OG rapper straight outta Compton, wassup?!
Nah, for real, though.: How are y'all doing? It has been a long time. I hope y'all are having a great time (can sense some peoples' incoming negative comments due to corona).
I built my completely new first gaming rig like a few weeks ago after my school laptop stopped showing any signals.
The specifications are the following.:
- Mobo: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX
- CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 (no iGPU)
- dGPU: KFA2 RTX 2070 SUPER OC
- 2nd dGPU: GTX 550 TI (this one gets a new rant/post)
- RAM: 2x G.SKILL Ripjaws V 8 GB 3600 MHz
- PSU: Be quiet 650 W (It was the platinum edition afaik. I originally bought the 600 Watt Gold edition, but somehow they sent me the 650 Watt for no additional charge... which is great for me haha)
- HDD: 2x 4TB NAS HDD in RAID1 configuration (to load all of my games around 2 TB right now. Got the two HDDs for 110 Euro including the SATA Data cables)
- SSD: One Intenso 240 GB SSD and a reused Samsung 256 GB SSD from my old broken Lenovo laptop
- Case: Be quiet Pure Base 500 black with a glass panel on the side
While building my first PC, it was one hell of a challenge. I knew how it all was working in theory, but to put it all together, practically, was a bit of a challenge, but it was a nice challenge. I learned a lot and have a performance gain I could only ever dream of.
I used to play my games first on a Toshiba satellite l750d laptop (around 40 fps in cs:go with the lowest gfx settings) and then on a Lenovo e51-80 laptop (around 30 fps max minecraft with no shaders and texture packs).
Now I play cs:go on Kubuntu with 400 fps at peak with ultra high graphics. It is unbelievable.
I couldn't trust the system when I turned on the fps display the first time I saw it.
6 -
This poster is shite quality but I've transcribed the gold found on it:
The Technical Support Specialist:
- SEND US AN URGENT EMAIL IN UPPERCASE. We'll flag it as a rush job. Really.
- Loves it when a user calls screaming "the internet is broken".
- Gonna snap the next time a user asks why they don't have permission to install a George Michael screensaver.
- Last vacation: catching the first rays of sun from the back booth in Tim Hortons. Sweeeeeet!
- Most dreaded words: "I don't know what happened, I only opened the attachment".
- Has memorized over 100 access codes, but can't remember what day it is.
- Is amazed a user can have five chatrooms and three celebrity sites opened at once - but reading an I.T. support e-mail sent with high importance - now that's a complicated request.
- When you call with a tech support problem and say you'll be back in 5 - I'll say "Great!" And try not to snicker.
- System crashed last Thursday. Haven't seen my wife and kids since.
2 -
If I'll ever start a business I have some gold rules for it:
- what you're doing (the difficulty of a project) decides your partial salary, and not the time you're working on it
- if you take a lot of time working on something that should have taken less, you'll be controlled by your supervisor BUT he/she must be gentle and friendly, he/she should be able to understand your problem. If there is something that really could have taken so much time, the partial salary will be higher, otherwise, you'll get a strike
- after some strike you'll be "reviewed", we must understand if you're joking or you really want this work.
- there must be a lot of free time, we don't like stress
- your supervisor (as written before) must be gentle and friendly. If these qualities aren't met we must find a new supervisor (of course there will be a survey)
- you should come to work with a smile, if an activity is too much stressful you should report it, and take a pause (here comes the free time)
- I don't care if you have a degree, what you CAN do is what I'm searching for.10 -
Oh my gosh, no one really knows here what is programming. Even teachers, which claim to be professionals in the subject doesn't know shit except for the basic theory. Nothing in practice.
It was evidenced by the largest job skill competition of Finland (Taitaja) that's for my-aged students (18). And yeah it's not higher education studies, just second degree, but that's where you should get the necessary practical skills for your work life.
The category I participated was website development, which is the only software development category.
It was a public event that is focused on showcasing different jobs. Well, what do programmers do, a viewer may ask. Even the responsible teachers and juries couldn't really answer properly. They just showed the specs we were following to create the crappiest of websites the short period of development time.
So we consume coffee and produce HTML, is that accurate representation of the whole industry?
All the other winners of different categories get a lot of job offers from companies when they win. I won gold last year (bronze this year) and I didn't get a single offer. Who would be interested in human HTML generator who can only make static websites anyway?
Programming is about problem-solving, not about graphic design and writing content.
And just to give you an idea the scale of the competition: last year I made a total of ~2000€ for the victory. And it is super easy if you just know what you are doing. That being graphic design and the making of a static page with a pinch of functionality.1 -
Hey Everyone, first of all I’d like to start with my usual, hope all is well today as always! Today I’d like to post my first official rant.... so anyone that knows me in person or in general knows me as a good helpful young man, right now Milo is happy but has the urge to rant..
So... not naming anyone specifically from uni... one person specifically always on Facebook messaging me for my assessments, now me being me i try to say No, but the issue is i want people to do well, i put my heart into my work and people just want assignments handed to them on a gold platter, it takes me a lot longer to try and get concepts around my head , I usually always stay up late nights to get a better understanding of things. As you may see my work means a lot to me.
I always mention to my friends if they wish to do well, they must sacrifice going out clubbing or other social things for a later time. I spend my majority of the week learning new things related to programming Monday - Saturday, and on Sunday i have my free time , with the usual work out session thrown inbetween :-).
So anyways, thats it for my rant, I’d love to know if anyone has been through a similar instance? If so would love to hear about it!.
Thank you for taking the time to read my long rant once again :-)
Milo 🥂☺️5 -
Now... It's 3:45 A.M... I'm destroyed... I worked and studied for long time. Is time to go in the bed.... Gold Night all1
-
!dev
!!Lyrics
Really a random post but related to my personal dev-life so maybe it’s at least arguable if it belongs here.
This is one of my all time favorite songs, I can identify myself with it (although I’m reinterpreting some parts).
Back in Highschool I had girlfriends, I had time, I had my entourage, everything except money. All my dad wanted me to become was a rich fucking millionaire. Failure was never accepted, no matter what it was about and everything could always have been done better.
It was pretty much a military childhood. I already loved programming back then but only as a hobby, kinda.
I really wanted to make good money so I started a dev career (with makes gooooood money where I came from). The more I invested in my career, and that was a lot, I more and more lost the understanding of what’s really important, just pursued my goal of being the best fucking dev out there and start my own company in the next 10 years.
Well.. 10 years are over now, I’m still an engineer and I lost everything I had before I started this. Especially friends and relations to women (which I’m not even able to connect to anymore).
In this lyric, the blackbird and raven are the career that just ate me alive. Hope that makes any sense to some of you?..
Anyway, here the lyrics if you wanna read it:
—————————————-
Sons of Anarchy
Come join the murder - white buffalo
There's a blackbird perched outside my window
I hear him calling
I hear him sing
He burns me with his eyes of gold to embers
He sees all my sins
He reads my soul
One day that bird, he spoke to me
Like Martin Luther
Like Pericles
Come join the murder
Come fly with black
We'll give you freedom
From the human trap
Come join the murder
Soar on my wings
You'll touch the hand of God
And he'll make you king
And he'll make you king
On a blanket made of woven shadows
Flew up to heaven
On a raven's glide
His angels they turn my wings to wax now
I fell like judas, grace denied
On that day that he lied to me
Like Martin Luther
Like Pericles
Come join the murder
Come fly with black
We'll give you freedom
From the human trap
Come join the murder
Soar on my wings
You'll touch the hand of God
And he'll make you king
And he'll make you king
I walk among the children of my fathers
The broken wings, betrayal's cost
They call to me but never touch my heart, now
I am too far
I'm too lost
All I can hear is what he spoke to me
Like Martin Luther
Like Pericles
Come join the murder
Come fly with black
We'll give you freedom
From the human trap
Come join the murder
Soar on my wings
You'll touch the hand of God
And he'll make you king
And he'll make you king
So now I curse that raven's fire
You made me hate, you made me burn
He laughed aloud as he flew from eden
You always knew, you never learn
The crow no longer sings to me
Like Martin Luther
Or Pericles
Come join the murder
Come fly with black
We'll give you freedom
From the human trap
Come join the murder
Soar on my wings
You'll touch the hand of God
And he'll make you king
And he'll make you king
Come join the murder
Come fly with black
We'll give you freedom
From the human trap
Come join the murder
Soar on my wings
You'll touch the hand of God
And he'll make you king
And he'll make you king3 -
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REEEE why isnt pyautogui installling ??? )=<
i said import pyautuogui then imported time, from time import sleep right? )= it isnt working
the pyautogui is for the gold per second on this rpg game =)
Help pls
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Candle Packaging: The Ultimate Guide to Elevate Your Brand
Why Candle Packaging Matters
Candle packaging plays a crucial role in both protecting the product and enhancing its aesthetic appeal. In today’s competitive market, attractive and functional packaging is essential for capturing customer attention, ensuring product safety, and reinforcing brand identity.
Key Elements of High-Quality Candle Packaging
1. Material Selection
The material used in candle packaging is critical in maintaining product integrity, durability, and aesthetic appeal. Some of the most commonly used materials include:
Cardboard and Paperboard: Lightweight, eco-friendly, and customizable for different styles.
Glass Jars: Ideal for luxury candles, offering a sophisticated and protective housing.
Metal Tins: Travel-friendly and durable, suitable for compact packaging.
Plastic Containers: Cost-effective and versatile, though less eco-friendly.
2. Branding and Customization
Strong branding elements on packaging create a lasting impression. Effective branding strategies include:
Embossed or Foil Stamping: Adds a luxurious touch to your packaging.
Minimalist Designs: Clean and modern looks that appeal to high-end consumers.
Personalized Labels: Custom labels with unique typography and graphics enhance the visual appeal.
Window Cutouts: Allow customers to see the candle inside without opening the package.
3. Sustainable and Eco-Friendly Options
With the increasing demand for sustainable packaging, brands should consider:
Biodegradable Materials: Such as kraft paper and recycled cardboard.
Reusable Packaging: Containers that customers can repurpose.
Soy-Based Inks: An eco-friendly printing option.
Types of Candle Packaging
1. Luxury Candle Packaging
Premium candles require high-end packaging that reflects the exclusivity of the product. Features include:
Rigid boxes with magnetic closures for a sleek unboxing experience.
Velvet or satin lining for added elegance.
Gold or silver foil accents for a sophisticated appeal.
2. Gift Candle Packaging
Candle packaging designed for gifting should be visually appealing and ready for presentation. Common features include:
Decorative boxes with ribbons and bows.
Themed packaging for seasonal gifts (Christmas, weddings, birthdays).
Custom messages or engravings for personalization.
3. Wholesale and Bulk Candle Packaging
For businesses selling candles in bulk, efficiency and cost-effectiveness are key. Features include:
Stackable and compact designs for easy shipping.
Corrugated cardboard for added durability.
Minimalist branding to reduce production costs.
Candle Packaging Design Trends
1. Minimalist and Elegant Designs
Simplicity is the new luxury. Many brands opt for clean lines, neutral tones, and minimal text to create an elegant and modern look.
2. Sustainable and Eco-Conscious Packaging
More consumers are leaning towards zero-waste and biodegradable materials, making sustainable packaging a priority for many brands.
3. Interactive and Innovative Packaging
Unique and functional packaging elements, such as hidden compartments, scented boxes, and reusable containers, help brands stand out.
4. Personalization and Customization
Personalized packaging with handwritten notes, custom scents, or tailored designs enhances customer engagement and loyalty.
Best Practices for Candle Packaging
Ensure Proper Labeling: List essential information such as scent, burn time, safety warnings, and ingredients.
Protect Against Heat and Damage: Use heat-resistant materials and secure sealing to prevent wax melting.
Prioritize User Experience: Packaging should be easy to open, store, and recycle.
Focus on Aesthetic Appeal: Visually appealing packaging attracts impulse buyers and repeat customers.
Conclusion
Investing in well-designed candle packaging not only enhances product safety but also boosts brand recognition and customer appeal. Whether opting for luxurious, eco-friendly, or cost-effective packaging, brands should prioritize quality, innovation, and sustainability to stand out in the competitive market.2 -
In the end, Subjugation armor is a notable set for magical (prayer) users. You'll be combating some other boss to obtain it, however in case you've been fighting on the God Wars Dungeon already, it's probably a piece of cake: defeat K'ril Tsutsaroth and his bodyguards in this God Wars Dungeon. Take the armor set right after they've been eliminated. You can increase your protection until stage 70.
How a great deal does a RuneScape Membership price? Subscription & advantages defined
If you're planning to spend some time and effort to Runescape and you're the desire to join one of the clubs. This is everything you want to understand approximately the cost of a club membership in Runescape. Runescape is now a powerful MMOPRG due to the fact its Miniclip starting point, and has grown its lore and gameplay exponentially. While the popular Jagex-advanced gaming can nevertheless be performed without cost, there are plenty of sweets you can purchase for buying a club.
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