Do all the things like ++ or -- rants, post your own rants, comment on others' rants and build your customized dev avatarSign Up
Get a devDuck
Rubber duck debugging has never been so cute! Get your favorite coding language devDuckBuy Now
Search - "useless meetings"
So the remote manager who won't reply to my emails or slacks, won't invite me to meetings with product / design, won't ask for my opinion on deadline dates and won't tell me whats being said in meetings (despite repeated effort on my part to change this);
Has decided to send an angry email, cc'ing a bunch of people, about "constant deadline slippage" and poor planning on our part focusing on features that should have been de-prioritised.
*clears throat for maximum yelling rant-ability*
I HAVE BEEN EMAILING YOU FOR FUCKING WEEKS ASKING TO TALK ABOUT THE DEADLINES YOU FUCKING COLOSSAL ASS CLOWN.
I'VE BEEN REPEATEDLY TOLD THAT THESE FEATURES ARE A MUST HAVE AFTER ASKING TO DE-PRIORITISE THEM, AND HAVE TOLD YOU THE DATES ARE NOT FEASIBLE.
ONE MORE, ONE MORE EMAIL OR BAD COMMENT AND I'M EXPENSING A TRIP OVER THERE, TO KICK YOU SQUARE IN THE NUTS AS HARD AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. I'LL HAPPILY BREAK MY FOOT OFF IF NECESSARY, YOU USELESS PIECE OF SHIT.
... the above is work appropriate to email back to him and all the higher ups right?12
Working really hard, finishing tasks, upgrading servers. Cancel some useless meetings to finish up features, working till 2am to get a database migration working. Half of the platform is transformed, both customers and team are very happy about their accomplishments.
Boss: "OK, I think we're on the right path with these changes, but productivity and morale is honestly disappointing. Are you guys sleeping enough? You all look very tired and unmotivated!"
Attend all meetings, call boss at 7am to discuss random purchases like a whiteboard, run around the office holding a (broken, lol) MacBook, looking very busy & slightly worried. I shout random things at people across the office like "Nice work Gary!" and "Damn, you are on a roll Angela!". I initiate smalltalk with department heads, only to immediately disrupt the conversation by checking my phone saying "Oh I really have to take this one" (empty battery, lol). No one writes a single line of code for four weeks, and nothing new has been deployed by the whole team.
Boss: "I think it's commendable how productive the team has become this month. You guys are all so active and involved. A real improvement!"6
I've come to a conclusion today: Management are fucking with me. I know it sounds far fetched, but its the only thing that makes sense.
I was in a meeting today, discussing some bad emails back and forth. Part of my issue was the amount of time spent on useless meetings, or waiting around to give demos.
The meeting got cut short, so I could prepare a demo for a VP ... after an hour and a fucking half of waiting around ... theres no time to see my demo.
What the actual fuck, seriously .... seriously what the actual fuck. What if the name of mother fucking christ is going on with this team, that they call me into a mother fucking meeting to discuss the "developers attitude" only to go and cut it short ... so they can fucking waste my time ... for the second time in 3 mother fucking days.
Oh i'd rather fuck myself with a cactus than spend the rest of my days dealing with this utter bullshittery.1
Last year, we had to do a big university project in randomly selected groups (5-6 students in every group).Three of the five guys were completely useless, I mean, both the other competent guy and me wrote around 20,000 lines of code each, the other ones wrote around 500 lines of code (combined).
After our first few meetings we quickly knew that we have to give them a small task which was so trivial that not even they can fuck it up. But we were wrong. Oh boy, so wrong.
They simply had to code the excel export of the data, which means they had to use two functions from a library and pass the correct data. But their solution was so bad, I lost faith in humanity and was fascinated by it at the same time.
For example, there was this simple class "Room", which had a few properties like size or number of seats and a few getter/setter etc. That was a core class and written by the other qualified guy. So how did the others fuck up the excel export? They somehow rewrote that class in German (although the other code was completely in English), implemented a function for each property that would write its value to a hardcoded cell in a hardcoded excel file.
And this was just the tip of the iceberg. Needlessly to say that I had to rewrite the whole export in the night before we had to present the project.5
As a Java developer I didn't write a line of code at work for about 2 months. Been so busy with meetings, doc, governance, architecture decisions, running after people for approvals,... I really miss coding.2
It finally fucking happend, I wish it didn't, but it happened.
I was in my very first call through zoom were I didn't even speak and didn't even really need to listen.
Everything could have been an e-mail, of course20
When i worked for a large, international bank (whose name rhymes with shitty), I always had to use the following formula to estimate projects.
1. Take estimate of actual work
2. Multiply by 2 to cover project manager status reports
3. Multiply by 4 to cover time spent in useless meetings.
4. Multiply by 2 to cover user support and bug fix tasks.
5. Multiply by 2 to cover my team lead tasks.
6. Multiply by 3 to cover useless paperwork and obtaining idiotic necessary approvals to do anything
7. Finally, multiply by 3.14159 to cover all the other stupid shit that the idiots that run that company come up with.
It's only a slight exaggeration. Tasks that required less than a day of actual coding would routinely require two weeks to accomplish and get implemented.6
So ok here it is, as asked in the comments.
Setting: customer (huge electronics chain) wants a huge migration from custom software to SAP erp, hybris commere for b2b and ... azure cloud
Timeframe: ~10 months….
My colleague and me had the glorious task to make the evaluation result of the B2B approval process (like you can only buy up till € 1000, then someone has to approve) available in the cart view, not just the end of the checkout. Well I though, easy, we have the results, just put them in the cart … hmm :-\
The whole thing is that the the storefront - called accelerator (although it should rather be called decelerator) is a 10-year old (looking) buggy interface, that promises to the customers, that it solves all their problems and just needs some minor customization. Fact is, it’s an abomination, which makes us spend 2 months in every project to „ripp it apart“ and fix/repair/rebuild major functionality (which changes every 6 months because of „updates“.
After a week of reading the scarce (aka non-existing) docs and decompiling and debugging hybris code, we found out (besides dozends of bugs) that this is not going to be easy. The domain model is fucked up - both CartModel and OrderModel extend AbstractOrderModel. Though we only need functionality that is in the AbstractOrderModel, the hybris guys decided (for an unknown reason) to use OrderModel in every single fucking method (about 30 nested calls ….). So what shall we do, we don’t have an order yet, only a cart. Fuck lets fake an order, push it through use the results and dismiss the order … good idea!? BAD IDEA (don’t ask …). So after a week or two we changed our strategy: create duplicate interface for nearly all (spring) services with changed method signatures that override the hybris beans and allow to use CartModels (which is possible, because within the super methods, they actually „cast" it to AbstractOrderModel *facepalm*).
After about 2 months (2 people full time) we have a working „prototype“. It works with the default-sample-accelerator data. Unfortunately the customer wanted to have it’s own dateset in the system (what a shock). Well you guess it … everything collapsed. The way the customer wanted to "have it working“ was just incompatible with the way hybris wants it (yeah yeah SAP, hybris is sooo customizable …). Well we basically had to rewrite everything again.
Just in case your wondering … the requirements were clear in the beginning (stick to the standard! [configuration/functinonality]). Well, then the customer found out that this is shit … and well …
So some months later, next big thing. I was appointed technical sublead (is that a word)/sub pm for the topics‚delivery service‘ (cart, delivery time calculation, u name it) and customerregistration - a reward for my great work with the b2b approval process???
Customer's office: 20+ people, mostly SAP related, a few c# guys, and drumrole .... the main (external) overall superhero ‚im the greates and ur shit‘ architect.
Aberage age 45+, me - the ‚hybris guy’ (he really just called me that all the time), age 32.
He powerpoints his „ tables" and other weird out of this world stuff on the wall, talks and talks. Everyone is in awe (or fear?). Everything he says is just bullshit and I see it in the eyes of the others. Finally the hybris guy interrups him, as he explains the overall architecture (which is just wrong) and points out how it should be (according to my docs which very more up to date. From now on he didn't just "not like" me anymore. (good first day)
I remember the looks of the other guys - they were releaved that someone pointed that out - saved the weeks of useless work ...
Instead of talking the customer's tongue he just spoke gibberish SAP … arg (common in SAP land as I had to learn the hard way).
Outcome of about (useless) 5 meetings later: we are going to blow out data from informatica to sap to azure to datahub to hybris ... hmpf needless to say its fucking super slow.
But who cares, I‘ll get my own rest endpoint that‘ll do all I need.
First try: error 500, 2. try: 20 seconds later, error message in html, content type json, a few days later the c# guy manages to deliver a kinda working still slow service, only the results are wrong, customer blames the hybris team, hmm we r just using their fucking results ...
The sap guys (customer service) just don't seem to be able to activate/configure the OOTB odata service, so I was told)
Several email rounds, meetings later, about 2 months, still no working hybris integration (all my emails with detailed checklists for every participent and deadlines were unanswered/ignored or answered with unrelated stuff). Customer pissed at us (god knows why, I tried, I really did!). So I decide to fly up there to handle it all by myself16
Last Week Friday:
PM: We'll be taking you off the one project on to another, we'll send the details later.
PM: Ok cool, so you'll be looking at a script that one of our Pillar heads has scripted. You need to make sure it works and that it can run on the server.
Me: *I always thought this guy was useless now i get to see what he can do* Cool, just send the documentation and i'll take a look at it over the weekend. Just tell me when you've sent it.
Project Head: I'll inform you when i send the files and how to run them.
Me: *I know how to set up a database locally, i'm not an idiot* Cool.
Whole Weekend I don't get a single message.
Project Head(PH): Have you taken a look at it yet?
Me: Taken a look at what?
PH: The Database and the Script
Me: i didn't get any message over the weekend.
PH: I sent it yesterday, it should be in your inbox.
Me: There's Nothing. Sending anything on a Sunday is expecting me not to see it, especially at 10pm. Besides i can't retrieve any of the files in the attachment(Outlook tripping), rather send it in a zip file or upload it to onedrive.
PH sends the link. I get the files, set up the DB, glance at the script.
Me: This is actually interesting.
PH: You know what it does?
Me: My SQL knowledge is below average but i can read and understand it pretty well. So your dynamically copying the database from the server to the warehouse, cool.
It's not going to work though.
PH: Check first.
I check it
Me: Doesn't work, but it sort of works.
PH: What do you mean?
Me: Some tables are populated but some aren't,, how and there's a shit tone of errors.
PH: So i does copy the data over.
Me: Some of the data.
PH: test it on the Server
Me: Not a good idea.
PH: Just try it.
PM: In the mean time i'll send you some documentation i need you to review and edit.
Me: *Idiots* Cool.
Me: Have you checked it on the server yet?
PH: Not yet, busy.
Me: Where's the documentation again?
PM: I'll send it it a moment.
Me: In the mean time i'll write some script to fix that script that's definitely not going to work.
Boss: I heard you done with the script
Me: It's not done, but we'll be testing it on the server later.
Boss: Then why are you running it on the server?
Me: Ask the PH and PM.
Boss: What are you doing now?
Me: Well i'm supposed to do documentation *looks at PM* but i haven't recieved any yet, so I've been writing a script to fix the copy script.
PH: Ok we'll test when the boss leaves, after all the meetings.
PM: here's the documentation.
I start on documentation.
PH: It didn't work.
Me: I know.
PH: Fix it.
PM: What you doing?
Me: Fixing the script,
PM: Do the documentation first
End of the day:
PH: Why you doing the documentation? The script has highest priority.
Me: Ask the PM.
Boss: can we talk.
Boss: I though you said the script was done?
Me: i said it sort of works, just doesn't do the job 100%.
Boss: Monday i was told it's done.
Me: i only looked through it Monday to understand it, i done nothing before Tuesday. though i have been trying to create a script to fix it.
Boss: Your working really slow hey.
Me: *It's been a week, and stupid people are in charge* I was doing what i was told.
Boss: Cool.(His Upset)
Stupid FUCKEN people, make stupid FUCKEN decisions. But Hey, the boss only see's the final result. I am a human being, even i make mistakes. But there's a huge gap between stupidity and a mistake.
Hate leaving work feeling useless for only writing 5 lines of working code today.
4 hours of meetings, an hour of calls, 2 hours to find 2 annoying bugs and the rest waiting for an api throttle limit so I can test again.
Hoping tomorrow is better!2
a meeting on why we are behind on a project. a meeting about meeting about being behind.... too many useless meetings
During one of our 'pop-up' meetings last week.
Ralph: "The test code the developers are checking in is a mess. They don't know what they are doing."
var foo = SomeLibrary.GetFoo();
Fred: "Ha ha..someone should talk to HR about our hiring practices. These people are literally driving the company backwards."
Me: "I think unit testing is complete waste of time."
- You could almost see the truck hit the wall and splatter watermelon everwhere..took Ralph and Fred a couple of seconds to respond
Fred: "Uh..unit testing is industry best practice. There is scientific evidence that prove testing reduces bugs and increases code quality"
Ralph: "Over 90% of our deployments are rolled back because of bugs. Unit testing will eliminate that."
Me: "Sorry, I disagree."
- Stepping on kittens wouldn't have gotten a worse look from Fred and Ralph
Fred: 'Pretty sure if you ask any professional developer, they'll tell you unit testing and code coverage reduces bugs.'
Me: "I'm not asking anyone else, I'm asking you. Find one failed deployment, just one, over the past 6 months that unit testing or code coverage would have prevented."
- good 3 seconds of awkward silence.
Ralph: "Well, those rollbacks are all mostly due to server mis-configurations. That's not a fair comparison."
Me: "I'm using your words. Unit tests reduces bugs and lack of good tests is the direct reason why we have so many failed deployments"
Boss: "Yea, Ralph...you and Fred kinda said that."
Fred: "No...we need to write good tests. Not this mess."
Me: "Like I said, show me one test you've written that would have prevented a rollback. Just one."
Ralph: "So, what? We do nothing?"
Me: "No, we have to stop worshiping this made up 80% code coverage idol. If not, developers are going to keep writing useless test code just to meet some percent. If we wrote device drivers or frameworks for other developers maybe, but we write CRUD apps. We execute a stored procedure or call a service. This 80% rule doesn't fit for code we write."
Fred: "If the developers took their head out of their ass.."
Me: "Hey!..uh..no, they are doing exactly what they are being told. Meet the 80% requirement, even if doesn't make sense."
Ralph: "Nobody told them to write *that* code."
Boss: "My gosh, what have you and Fred been complaining about for the past hour?"
- Ralph looks at his monitor and brilliantly changes the subject
Ralph: "Oh my f-king god...Trump said something stupid again ..."
At that point I put my headphones on went back to what I was doing. I'm pretty sure Fred and Ralph spent the rest of the day messaging back-n-forth, making fun of me or some random code I wrote 3 years ago (lots of typing and giggling). How can highly educated grown men (one has a masters in CS) get so petty and insecure?7
TL;DR The "senior dev", that the client hired on their end, is acting as a middleman between me and the project requestors. Taking the credit for my work.
I've already bitch about this before. I've been in a crusade to defend the production server from this fraud for a long time now.
But most recently he has removed me from all meetings with the actual project owner. I create the solutions, then he goes through them to understand it a bit. He proceeds to present it to the project owner in a way that almost blatantly says that he made it.
I'm sick and tired of working with this asshole. He is literally useless, worse he is slowing things down and breaking others.
I'm just gonna begin countering this...
new job. after a few years of doing nothing it's busy af. no time to do anything. all kernel/network background shit. linux which is kool, but "enterprise" linux, which all suk if you ask me. maybe suse is ok? haven't used. can't get their shit together, bad docs. be so much easier to roll own but management wants us to use an even more obscure and shitty version of linux. ppl are ok, but half are remote and between that and meetings half the day it's kinda useless.
no life. fml.
I'm tired of our daily support meeting. That's almost one hour i lost everyday in which i could ne productive in my project🙄
Everyday the god damn same stories about our dumb customers and at the end nothing change...
Maybe i'll start draw all my colleagues, while i sit there😄
Those bloody meetings are nothing but time suckers. Much akin to some family event where they bring everyone together, regardless of their relevance to the agenda.
Also, the fact that we have been scheduling some important meeting always since 2 fucking months, only to be declined ALWAYS. The bloody meeting has been floating as an action item for 2 months, but none gives a fuck.
But no, we want to have meetings about meetings, and meetings about why a meeting didn't happen.
Also they ask us to stretch and accommodate, sucking time out of dev.
W H Y ?1
Hey guys. I am in a situation where I need to decide wether to take on a new project or not. And if not, how to turn down that client so that I would not burn any bridges. So I need your opinions on this matter in order to make the final decision.
To make things clear heres some background info. 10 months ago I quitted my fulltime position in another EU country and went back to my own home country. 10 months forward till today and I have my own ltd company which currently has 5 projects. Its doing pretty well money wise. All projects combined, I already earn more then I ever did and I need to work max 10 hours a week since all projects are remote projects so I dont waste time on useless meetings and etc. However I dont feel fulfilled or challenged anymore because surprise surprise doing well paid projects doesnt guarante your sense of fulfillment.
So I noticed that I have lots of spare time which I spend diving into rabbitholes with hobby projects. I decided that its time to scale my company and take on more projects and maybe even hire more people.
So I started searching for other projects I could work on (prefferibly remote projects or flexible ones where I could come in 2-3 days a week in office and work remotely rest of the week). Reason being that I am already out of sync with fulltime position lifestyle and I am totally result oriented, not punch in my hours and go home oriented.
For exampleIf i get my weekly tasks I prefer to do them in 1-2 days (even if it requires doing double shifts which rarely but happens) but then I want to have rest of the week off. Thats how my brain works and thats how Im wired. I cant stand fulltime positions especially in enterprise bigger companies where I come in and do maybe 2 hours of actual work everyday because of all useless meetings and blockers from backend/etc. Its soul crushing to me.
So I posted linkedin ads and started searching for new clients/projects. One month ago I went to an interview for an android project in a startup.
The project looked interesting enough. Main task was to rewrite their android app from java to kotlin. Apparently their current current app was built by a backend developer who wants to focus solely on backend.
So during the interview they showed me their app which was quite simple frontend wise but not so simple backend wise from what I was able to figure out.
Their project lead (also a backed guy) asked me my estimation of price and completion of task. I told them maybe 2-3 months to do everything properly.
Project lead was basically shocked because all other candidates told him they can rewrite the app from java to kotlin in 2-3 weeks. I told him that everything is possible but his app quality will suffer and for a better estimation he would we would need to sign an NDA so I could evaluate the costs. So we ended the interview.
After that we kept in touch for one month (it took them one month to google a generic NDA and sign it digitally with me).
So heres the redflags I noticed:
1. They dont respect my time. Wasted 1 month of my time and after signing NDA gave me 2days to estimate their project and go to a meeting and give them detailed info about what I can offer. I thats not a brain rape then I dont know what it is
2. They are changing initial conditions we talked about. We agreed on rewriting the codebase and be done with it. Now they prefer a fulltime worker who would be responsible for android app as his own product. So basically project lead was not able to find a fulltime dev so now hes trying to convert me (a company owner) to his fulltime worker.
3. Lack of respect. During the interview he started speaking in his own native language to me with some expression (he seemed pissed off at that moment when he switched languages).
4. Bad culture fit. As I said Im used to relaxed clients and projects where I dont need to be chained to a desk a monitored and be micromanaged. I mean lets sign a contract give me access to your codebase and tell me what to do, I will produce results and lets be done with it.
5. Project lead is a backend guy who doesnt understand how complicated android apps can be. No architecture and no unit tests are in his frontend app. He doesnt care about writing proper app since he ships it in his own device so he doesnt need to worry about supporting custom devices or different api levels of android and etc. But not having any architecture? Cmon.
So basically I am confused. Project lead needs a fulltime dev but hes in contact with me in hopes that I would sign a fulltime contract. But how I can work fulltime if all what I can see are redflags?
Basicaly I thinkthis was a misundersanding. Im searching for fulltime remote projects and hes offering fulltime inhouse projects. Project lead never outsourced so hes confused as well.
As you can see decision is already basically made to turn him down, I just need to know how to tell him to fck off in the most polite manner and thats it.6
Meetings are the way of parasites to keep shining without doing shit. Why do they gave to drag me into their bullshit meeting?!$&2
Advice for software developers -
(Mention something according to your view in comment box :))
Solve a problem. A business one - that created the need for the software you are developing.
Software is such a complex product (like cars and houses), it requires a team of engineers. Employers pigeonhole developers into little specializations. You can happily stay a sniper, machine gunner, or radio operator in your squad arrangement. You can even go to the officer’s academy (business school) to be promoted through official channels. But you need to try it first: comprehending the whole battle and rising above the specialist rank. At least in your mind.
You don’t have to write the entire system’s code to do that. Just look at the big picture, identify problems not directly related to you, raise them, and help your teammates to solve them. Solve some yourself - something outside your specialty. Become a generalist.
Will your bosses reward you for that? Not a chance. You are not doing it to earn official brownie points or even get noticed. In fact you won’t be noticed in a good way. Your boss would think you are undermining him/her and aiming for his seat. You don’t. That’s a dead end too.
Even if they reward you, don’t get comfortable. Well, that depends on your ambitions. How much “higher” “salary” you want? The most important skill you just learned is solving a problem. You are a project starter now. Or project savior. You can do anything: research, analyze, design, and implement. If you need help with coding, you can split that work with others, while coordinating the development. Yes, your boss needs to be afraid. Who cares? Let him/her sit in meetings and write useless documentation. You can produce the same system w/o your company’s bureaucratic overhead.
So now you have two paths. If you know a valid niche: a consumer or business problem to be solved, you can start your own company. Hire capable friends, find like-minded people. Don’t quit your day job. You can manage “dual-tasking”. Today’s dysfunctional IT workload is not that high. And the abundance of open-source technology makes everything virtually free. Except for the developer’s time. You can pay others in equity - if you need them.
If you want the security of an established company, apply there. It doesn’t need to be your current employer’s competitor. You can go anywhere - after researching the company business, ideally their pain points, and bringing the solution plan. Or even a prototype.
They’ll look at you differently, even if you are completely off base about their pressing problems. Just the effort alone shows who you are - a high-level problem solver. I hope you understand the difference between a problem solver - who makes things work and the pain disappear; And a formal “Solutions Architect” selling something on behalf of his/her consulting company - or purchasing if he/she works in the IT department.
Beats coding exercises, doesn’t it? I know it’s not up to you at the interview. What’s up to you is finding a company to apply at the higher, problem-solver level. It won’t be easy. The current hiring system is focused on acronym resume filtering. Companies hire either scientists or acronym specialists. Not problem solvers. As much, as I hate this generic advice, w/o a an independent unbiased recruiting system, aimed to find problem-solvers, you’ll need to network - easier said, than done.
My point is, however you get to that interview, through recruiters or the best connections, you still need to convince them that you can solve a real multi-million problem to command the higher pay. Otherwise you’ll just be a slightly higher paid pawn, reaching your salary cap in a few years after a few job hops.2
Why is it necessary that software be in a schedule meeting when software has 2 items on the schedule? This meeting is effectively useless for software. It is an unnecessary expenditure of money on a contract that is overrunning. It is right before we go on holiday break and they are training a new planner. And the lead is leaving in January so why is he still asking me questions about what I'm doing. Especially when I have told him what I am doing 4 times already. Fucking hell. Why is it that no one seems to trust me to do my job and be on top of things? And why is it that the people with shit memories are the ones that want to be involved in everything? And most importantly, why does everyone pretty universally hate meetings and regard them as useless yet insist we hold them?2
In a sprint planning meeting. Getting frustrated. I guess it's my fault. I guess I assumed that attending the same schedule meeting each week meant that we all knew when everything was due. My bad.
Seriously, I fucking hate systems people sometimes. We have 4 major tasks coming down the pipe, but they are scheduled in such a way in which they are staggered. But they want to punt the 1 of the 4 that is fucking done because it is going to cause a lot of testing, but the other three aren't coming til end of next month AT LEAST. So they want to stick their thumbs up their ass holes and wait to test the other three before testing the one that, again, IS FUCKING DONE!!! Are they worried that a super massive black hole will spontaneously form in earth's orbit and cause time to run backwards and somehow cause December to happen in October!?!?
No wonder systems is so fucking far behind. They can't see the forest for the trees. They're so big picture that months and years are at the same level of granularity. Fucking hell how is scrum better than our current agile process again? Besides the fact that it makes me attend more useless meetings and get more angry.
They are punishing the left hand for the actions of the right. Systems wasn't doing their job so now software has to slow down and miss schedule.2
I'm beginning to understand that thing about useless meetings that can be sorted out with an email.1
Team meetings where you go around in a circle and tell everyone what you're working on are useless. Change my mind15