HTML - hot tomato monkey language
CSS - crazy stupid script
PHP - per hour pay
JS - just scream
JAVA - just a valid acronym
C# - see sharply
Objective C - OOP cash
C - cash
C++ - cash++

How "Class ... Extends ... { }" works

Laravel is the worst framework ever.

Everything has to be made convenient and easy. That sounds amazing, because developers want to save time, worry less about boilerplate code, right? No more constructors, no more dependency injection, fuck all the tedious OOP shit... RIGHT?

It does one thing well: Make PHP syntax uniform and concise through easily integrated libraries such as Collection and Carbon. But those are actually not really part of the framework... just commonly integrated and associated with Laravel.

The framework itself is completely derailed: You can define code in a callback in the routes file. You can define a controller in the routes file. You can define middleware as a parameter to the route, as a fluent method to the route, you can stack them up in a service provider. Validators can be made in controllers, Request objects, service providers, etc. You can send mail inline, through Mailable objects, through Notification objects, etc.

Everything is macroable, injectable, and definable in a million different places. Ultimate freedom!

Guess what happens when you give 50 developers of various seniority a swiss army knife?

One hammers in a screw with a nail file, the other clips the head from the screw using scissors, and you end up with an unworkable mess and blunt tools.

And don't get me started about Eloquent, the Active Record ORM. It's cute for the simple blog/article/author/comment queries, but starts choking when you want more selective and performant queries or more complex aggregates, and provides such an opaque apple-esque interface which lets people think everything is OK, when in reality it's forcing the SQL server to slowly commit suicide.

Interviewed a dev for a junior role earlier this week...my first question:

const numbers = [0.1, 0.2, 0.3];
let sum = 0;

for (i = 0; i < numbers.length; ++i) {
setTimeout(() => {
sum += numbers[i];
}, 0);
}

// Refactor the preceding code so that the following returns true.
console.log(sum === 0.6);

---
He had no idea where to even start, so I asked him to walk through the code with me line by line, he couldn't get past line 1 - literally didn't know what an array was... I walked through the code with him and he just started to look more and more lost.

I didn't even bother with the rest of my questions on OOP, FP, etc...

Am I really expecting too much of somebody that claims to have 2 years practical experience in JavaScript, jQuery, Angular, and PHP?

Do you think this is a problem a junior dev should be able to solve...even if it takes some hand-holding?

I just got handed a legacy php web project... Full of vulnerabilities... And it's using only mysql_ functions... Not only it's not OOP, there is not even a single class...

How good it's coded: User profiles are created manually by the frontend dev as htmls, and then the past php dev implemented them as links etc in the current page.

This is how I feel:

The recruiter in call today is a spoilt brat .

I answer him wether am I know PHP. So I show him my code in PHP (oop) I show should him how I build a restful API and connect to MySql etc.

He told me that's not PHP , PHP don't use define and class , and that's not how you connect to MySql (I'm using PDO) he confused that pdo is something from Java. He told my code is not working because it is java syntax (actually not even closed)

Then I asked him then show me the proper way , he showed me his code in PHP which is started by <PHP instead of <?php (this is fucked up)

And I told him that (after looking at his code), he yelled at me that "there's no mistake, do you really understand PHP? " And he ended the meeting

All this happen in a zoom meeting.

Still trying to get good.

The requirements are forever shifting, and so do the applied paradigms.

I think the first layer is learning about each paradigm.

You learn 5-10 languages/technologies, get a feeling for procedural/functional/OOP programming. You mess around with some electronics engineering, write a bit of assembly. You write an ugly GTK program, an Android todo app, check how OpenGL works. You learn about relational models, about graph databases, time series storage and key value caches. You learn about networking and protocols. You void the warranty of all the devices in your house at some point. You develop preferences for languages and systems. For certain periods of time, you even become an insufferable fanboy who claims that all databases should be replaced by MongoDB, or all applications should be written in C# -- no exceptions in your mind are possible, because you found the Perfect Thing. Temporarily.

Eventually, you get to the second layer: Instead of being a champion for a single cause, you start to see patterns of applicability.

You might have grown to prefer serverless microservice architectures driven by pub/sub event busses, but realize that some MVC framework is probably more suitable for a 5-employee company. You realize that development is not just about picking the best language and best architecture -- It's about pros and cons for every situation. You start to value consistency over hard rules. You realize that even respected books about computer science can sometimes contain lies -- or represent solutions which are only applicable to "spherical cows in a vacuum".

Then you get to the third layer: Which is about orchestrating migrations between paradigms without creating a bigger mess.

Your company started with a tiny MVC webshop written in PHP. There are now 300 employees and a few million lines of code, the framework more often gets in the way than it helps, the database is terribly strained. Big rewrite? Gradual refactor? Introduce new languages within the company or stick with what people know? Educate people about paradigms which might be more suitable, but which will feel unfamiliar? What leads to a better product, someone who is experienced with PHP, or someone just learning to use Typescript?

All that theoretical knowledge about superior paradigms won't help you now -- No clean slates! You have to build a skyscraper city to replace a swamp village while keeping the economy running, together with builders who have no clue what concrete even looks like. You might think "I'll throw my superior engineering against this, no harm done if it doesn't stick", but 9 out of 10 times that will just end in a mix of concrete rubble, corpses and mud.

I think I'm somewhere between 2 and 3.

I think I have most of the important knowledge about a wide array of languages, technologies and architectures.

I think I know how to come to a conclusion about what to use in which scenario -- most of the time.

But dealing with a giant legacy mess, transforming things into something better, without creating an ugly amalgamation of old and new systems blended together into an even bigger abomination? Nah, I don't think I'm fully there yet.

Talked to long time friend a while back.
I think he freelances now and does some kind of web design stuff.

He said, he hates java, and I asked what he hates about it:

" Those stupid variable types, I only use VAR in PHP to get around that stupid stuff. And what is this Oop anyway?".

😵 Dude? The fuck?

Anyone remember when PHP was a straightforward procedural language and not a pseudo-objective mess?

#saturdaynostalgia

You want to land a job as PHP developer? About to go to an interview?

There are two ways:

1. Be able to explain the difference between an interface and an abstract class and their purposes. (I shit you not.)

2. If you aren't able to, then simply state you don't know and are eager to learn.

(The second approach might not work if you claimed to know object oriented programming "very well" before though.)

Yet I am astounded in how many interviews people were either playing smart and just rambled on not wanting to lose face. During the remote calls of some special candidates I could even hear them typing on their keyboards in the background googling the answers to my questions.

And the irony is that I thereby had to veto their appliance. As they had lost my trust in being able to communicate honestly. And for wasting my time.

Our domain is complicated and ever-changing and not knowing certain parts of software development is *normal*.

Yet don't just try to fake it in order to land a job. It won't work, and when it does you may find yourself literally in the company of like-minded individuals.

A lot of engineering fads go in circle.

Architecture in the 80s: Mainframe and clients.

Architecture in the 90s: Software systems connected by an ESB.

Architecture in the 2000s: Big central service and everyone connects to it for everything

Architecture in the 2010s: Decentralized microservices that communicate with queues.

Current: RabbitMQ and Kafka.

... Can't we just go back to the 90s?

I hate fads.
I hate when I have to get some data, and it's scattered on 20 different servers, and to load a fucking account page, a convoluted network of 40 apps have to be activated, some in PHP, others in JS, others on Java, that are developed by different teams, connected to different tiny ass DBs, all on huge clusters of tiny ass virtual machines that get 30% load at peak hours, 90% of which comes from serializing and parsing messages. 40 people maintaining this nightmare, that could've been just 7 people making a small monolithic system that easily handles this workload on a 4-core server with 32GB of RAM.
Tripple it, put it behind a load balancer, proper DB replication (use fucking CockroachDB if you really want survivability), and you've got zero downtime at a fraction of the cost.

Just because something's cool now, doesn't mean that everybody has to blindly follow it for fucks sake!

Same rant goes for functional vs OOP and all that crap. Going blindly with any of these is just a stupid fad, and the main reason why companies need refactoring of legacy code.

So...

I'm looking for my first job as a web developer. I kept seeing these rants about how horrible and frustrating job searching is, all of which I thought were greatly exaggerated. They're all just jokes and memes, right?

Nope.

Every fucking meme seems to be true.

- Junior developer with +4 years of experience, expert in their field - check!

- Listing requirements for 6 different jobs under "Full-stack developer" - check!

- "Expert developer required ASAP" - $10/hour - check!

- 100% remote ... *scrolls all the way down* ... for 2 days of the week - check!

- Entry level font-end position - must be an expert in Vue, Angular, React, AWS, Drupal, Wordpress, PHP, Python, ES9+, OOP, TDD, BDD - check!

- "Cool" description written in js code with no indentation - check!

And I'm not seeing these every once in a while or something like that. No. Most of the posts are like this. I thought I may just be underqualified since I've never had a real job before, but this just seems crazy to me...

Got an offer to work at a game development company. Office looked awesome (decked out in pinball machines and a huge marble track), located overlooking Schreveningen beach, young energetic team.
Then I saw the code. Oh God the code. And they wanted me to become system architect.
Hybrid PHP 4/5 OOP/procedural code custom framework running on a spaghetti database creaking by on the skin of its teeth... all backing Flash Facebook games.

Nope.

So this is an update of the afore mentioned IT related RPG I am making. I have settled on the title "Lords of Bullshit: a tale of corporate incompetence".

I need some ideas guys. I have Java, C, Python, PHP, bash and git as skill types, but I need spells for each.

For example in C I have malloc and dealloc as spells (revive and death spells).

I am having trouble with Java spells. I am trying to come up with things that focus on OOP or reflection and meta programming, but I am having trouble.

Any ideas? Also, anyone want to help with some sprites? All of the sprites the character generator can make are medieval looking.

I seear man fucking shit php devs make it hard for people to appreciate the language.
To start, i don't think there is anything wrong with php. As a language I know damn near all of its pitfalls and have successfully deployed huge applications with minimal fuss.

The thing is...this shit seems to happen only when I AM THE MOTHERFUCKER THAT DOES IT

In any other scenario i am constantly cursing the original author under my fucking breath hoping that they choke on their own dicks. Fucking cunts.

Really man, some of the fucking code i have seen. This shit is dangerous as fuck and i can't believe that in 2019 motherfuckers would not have the decency to google for best fucking practices or learn it from a fucking book and shit.

Writing proper php code is not that fucking hard people, every fucking update to the language, every fucking tool that comes out is for the betterment of it.
Guess proper oop or functional paradigms are too complex for some dickheads. Hell, not even top to bottom procedural code.

Fuck me. Good thing is, boss is happy, the entire faculty is happy, the board is happy. Everyone is motherfucking happy.

Dez negroids better remember this shit cuz I just asked for a $20k raise.

I got a raise literally every time i ask for one so this one better make the cut.

Fuck shit php developers man. Y'all don't deserve the language, y'all make the language look bad, y'all make the community look bad.

Fuck you, die and eat a dick. Do all that shit in whatever order you prefer.

Just had an old coworker from a previous job send me some stuff for a php script he was having issues with.

There was too much glory in what he was trying to do: mixing php inside of jquery code, not using strict types would have prevented like 10 issues he was having on his script on another portion, mixing headers, weirdly named variables, poorly constructed, reused db connections, 0 oop or proper dependency management in his code, horrible use of sessions and cookies, O (n²) logic all over the place.

But the cake.....are y'all ready for it? It was code screenshots, not even of just the section, no, the full page, from a windows machine (to make it better he is hosting the application on an IIS server and his configuration was not properly set) but I digress, back to the cake:

He was writing his code inside of wordpad :P

FUCKING WORDPAD

I just politely told him that I was busy at the moment and happily ignored him. Dude is not a good person to begin with imo, for example, he brought the subject of homosexuality during one of our talks after he saw me talking to my bf, who just so happens to be gay, his statement was "I do not understand how there can be gay people when there are women that are so hot"

My comeback was "I do not understand how we can be heterosexual when there are some really attractive dudes out there, see how stupid your logic sounds? attractiveness is not the basis for homosexuality ye dipstick" he let it go after that, but close minded people like that are not really my cup of tea.

In PHP (yes, it's a language I... don't hate) I've always hated exceptions. They're like GOTO, in an OOP world with interfaces and contracts, try/catch is really odd as it breaks a promise about returning with a typed value.

But you can now do this in PHP8, which comes pretty close to Maybe/Either monads (Option, Result whatever it's called in other languages):

function getUser(): User | UserNotFound

PHP8 unions don't come with the same strong guarantees as in other languages but *pets PHP gently on the head* you did well, my boy.

Now I would really love it if PHP9 could do:

function getUsers(): Collection<User>

Type Tree<T> = Null | Node<T>;
function 🎄(): Tree<Branch<Ornament|Light|null>>

So I'm just wondering if this happened to everyone else because a few friends of mine at work have corroborated my experience.

So, when I was very young and just starting to learn PHP, I was trying to grasp OOP. I read and read about it and did the example tutorials and nothing really did it for me. Then one day, writing some scripts for a game I played, it just hit me. Literally like "oh.....I get it. That's why this is a thing."

Feeling sick as fuck. Stayed home instead of going to work but I am already upstet about what is happening whilst I am not there.

The manager was gracious enough to task the other developers with creating the templates for one of our projects. I submitted a document before stating our design guidelines and how under no circumstances they should not use bootstrap for the design since none of them know how to manipulate the source code enough to deviate from the standard bootstrap design. The lead developer, even tho I love the dude, has an attitude against new tech. He is primarily and only a php developer still in love with just jquery and php with no real knowledge of proper design methods. He is the kind of dude that would tell you that pdo is a waste of time and that why should we create models and use oop to separate our code into manageable files.
Today I get "why should we not use bootstrap" and shit like that.

Sigh.....i really don't want to see the shitstorm waiting for me tomorrow.

Funny how our cms administrator is eager to learn the list of technologies i proposed. They both gor Programming Ruby, the pickaxe holy book of Ruby and the dude is already halfway through it while the other developer is still asking why should we even bother when we have php.

I get the idea of if it ain't broken don't fix it and being proficient with one stack and whatnot. But that idea of i dont want to learn something new is precisely what shuts down progress.

Oh man where to start:

Not wanting to use LINQ because he did not wanted to "download external dependencies"

Not wanting to use prepared statements on their php sql code, and refusing to use pdo because they will "always use mysql"(moved to postgreSQL shortly after I left)

For some reason including a php file that only had ?>......thats it....only ?>

Use c++ but refused to learn oop and use structs for everything, importing stdio.h and printf everything.....like really?

Maybe just nitpicking, but refusing to use the recyclerview pattern on am android app. The implementation was faster after I made the change.

Importing a library for promises instead of using the ones already in the language(JS)

Changing the style of aaaaall p tags instead of using classes as well as refusing to use divs in place of p tags...well...fuck

Not indent his ASP classic code

Use notepad on his asp classic code

Use ASP Classic in 2017, even for new projects

At work, my closest relation is with the DBA. Dude is a genius when it comes to proper database management as well as having a very high level of understanding concerning server administration, how he got that good at that I have no clue, he just says that he likes to fuck around with servers, Linux in particular although he also knows a lot about Windows servers.

Thing is, the dude used to work as a dev way back when VB pre VB.NET was all the rage and has been generating different small tools for his team of analysts(I used to be a part of his team) to use with only him maintaining them. He mentioned how he did not like how Microsoft just said fk u to VB6 developers, but that he was happy as long as he could use VB. He relearned how to do most of the GUI stuff he was used to do with VB6 into VB.NEt and all was good with the world. I have seen his code, proper OOP practices and architectural decisions, etc etc. Nothing to complain about his code, seems easy enough to extend, properly documented as well.

Then he got with me in order to figure out how to breach the gap between building GUI applications into web form, so that we could just host those apps in one of our servers and his users go from there, boy was he not prepared to see the amount of fuckery that we do in the web development world. Last time my dude touched web development there was still Classic ASP with JScript and VBScript(we actually had the same employer at one point in the past in which I had to deal with said technology, not bad, but definitely not something I recommend for the current state of web development) and decided that the closest thing to what he was used was either PHP(which he did not enjoy, no problem with that really, he just didn't click with the language) and WebForms using VB.NET, which he also did not like on account of them basically being on support mode since Microsoft is really pushing for people to adopt dotnet core.

After came ASP.NET with MVC, now, he did like it, but still had that lil bug in his head that told him that sticking to core was probably a better idea since he was just starting, why not start with the newest and greatest? Then in hit(both of us actually) that to this day Microsoft still not has command line templates for building web applications in .net core using VB.NET. I thought it was weird, so I decided to look into. Turns out, that without using Razor, you can actually build Web APIs with VB.NET just fine if you just convert a C# template into VB.NET, the process was...err....tricky, and not something we would want to do for other projects, with that in we decided to look into Microsoft's reasons to not have VB.NET. We discovered how Microsoft is not keeping the same language features between both languages, having crown C# as the language of choice for everything Microsoft, to this point, it seems that Microsoft was much more focused in developing features for the excellent F# way more than it ever had for VB.NET at this point and that it was not a major strategy for them to adapt most of the .net core functionality inside of VB, we found articles when the very same Microsoft team stated of how they will be slowly adding the required support for VB and that on version 5 we would definitely have proper support for VB.NET ALTHOUGH they will not be adding any new development into the language.

Past experience with Microsoft seems to point at them getting more and more ready to completely drop the language, it does not matter how many people use it, they would still kill it :P I personally would rather keep it, or open source the language's features so that people can keep adding support to it(if they can of course) because of its historical significance rather than them just completely dropping the language. I prefer using C#, and most of my .net core applications use C#, its very similar to Java on a lot of things(although very much different in others) and I am fine with it being the main language. I just think that it sucks to leave such a large developer pool in the shadows with their preferred tool of choice and force them to use something else just like that.

My boy is currently looking at how I developed a sample api with validation, user management, mediatR and a custom project structure as well as a client side application using React and typescript swappable with another one built using Angular(i wanted to test the differences to see which one I prefer, React with Typescript is beautiful, would not want to use it without it) and he is hating every minute of it on account of how complex frontend development has become :V

Just wanted to vent a little about a non bothersome situation.

We are a web developer team of 4 people. The system we manage is huge because it's a huge organization.

We use php.

Requirements grow rapidly and debugging became a nightmare. So we decided to move from procedural to OOP to ease it a bit.

And we have this one guy in our team (joined recently) who doesn't understand the benefits of following OOP. He is the one who manages most side projects among us too.

We have tried hard to convince him and now we have almost given up.

So I am asking you guys, please give me some ideas of how we could convince him to learn and follow OOP.

I recently accepted my first "real" Dev position. This has been a huge hurdle for me.

So my degree is in graphic design and it's pretty much what I spent the first 2-3 years after university doing. In fact, when I started at the place I am now (I am still working my notice) I was hired as a creative artworker.

I had always had a website I put together with some basic frontend skills, but always assumed the backend stuff was "beyond me". But, given the option here, I asked to be sent on a PHP course. Holy shit I took to it like a duck to water. Over the next few months I got my feet wet building a new website for the company, building out a little intranet, all that good stuff. I went from procedural spaghetti monstrosities to nice, OOP, documented code. It was beautiful. And no one here really have a fuck.

About 6 months ago, I started trying to leave. This was hard. I actually had several interviews for design positions, but always got turned down for some variation of "you're very technical and we think you'd get bored here" and thank god really, because they're right. I could never get a look in for Dev jobs though, because on paper I had no experience, hell my job title was still "Digital Designer" despite over a year of developing here.

But it finally happened. Through someone I used to know I got my foot in the door for a developer position. In the interview they even told me if it was a junior position they'd hire me on the spot - but sadly it wasn't. I had a good time though, a good laugh, and had a lot of fun finally, for the first time in my life, "working" and talking with other developers.

Over the next couple of weeks the agent kept telling me I had done really well and they were just dragging their feet getting things sorted, but I gave up hope a little. So imagine my surprise when I found out they turned the role into a junior one for me!

And so now, I get to go to a job where my job title includes the word "Developer". To some of you that might not mean much, but to me it's a fucking medal I wish I could mount on a plaque on my wall.

Starting a new job tomorrow, old job was a software engineer working on mostly PHP with some mild Java stuff, tomorrow it is Java Spring Boot backend work. Should be an exciting change of pace

Started new job almost two moths ago..

For almost 3 years I was developing custom themes, plugins, and widget for WordPress using PHP, jQuery/AJAX, and MySQL.

The new company that hired me brought me on as a backend developer to help rebuild their custom PHP Framework, and other web based software/products as their moving toward Google Cloud Platform.

When I started, MVC and OOP was new to me... took a couple weeks to get the hang of things, and understand their system.

Just when I was getting comfortable, I had a task assigned to me that was all NodeJS...

Had a 30 check-in the week I started the Node task, and was feeling pretty beat down because it was all new to me and I wasn’t making a lot of progress, and still not comfortable with Promises yet, and some other ES6 features but finding my way around slowly but surely.

Manager reassured me that I wasn’t going to be fired and it wasn’t unique to myself. Very encouraging to hear, but I’m my own worst critic so it’s frustrating not being able to make progress like I would with PHP projects.

Fast forward to this week, I started to review another task for a feed and found it’s all Ruby! Another language I have no familiarity with... and started to question if I’ll every get the hang of all these languages and be a solid team member...

Not only do I have to get a grasp on NodeJS and Ruby now, but then I’ll also have to get familiar with GCP and whatever else comes along with it...

Oh and I’m using Linux now instead of Windows/ OSX... so there’s that too.. plus the other command line tools the company built, and uses..

I was comfortable developing in PHP and know I needed to take a step and accept this job to move my career forward but it seems like I’m always behind the 8 ball...

Some days I wonder if it was worth staying a Wordpress developer and just focused on learning ReactJS and stay more Front-end than Backend..

I enjoy working with talented people but I don’t like being the low man on the totem pole knowing I don’t have the experience yet.

Does it feel like this for all devs?!?!

Coming from Java, I am slowly loving the MVC OOP PHP.

When you're diving deep in OOP PHP but at University you're learning how to getElementById... Fml

I like building large apps in flat php.

I get bullied for not using OOP / Frameworks.

I don't like this.

Yesterday i was in class and a classmate came at me asking for help, w/e.. I'm not listening this teacher.. let's check.
« show me the code »
She shows me, now I'm blind.

Full garbage! Tons of php function in the same file, mixed oop and procedural and.. all the js is printed via those php function, yup, everywhere you can see <?php print 'some shitty js' ?>

Fuuuuuuckkkkkk you. Not gonna touch it, please tell the guy who wrote it to fuck himself with a frozen vomit stick @not my injure.

Struggling

Started a new job not super long ago with the intention of "learning new tech" and so I get my wish, I'm thrown into a project as the LEAD ENGINEER

And my junior dev proceeds to run circles around me and I know literally nothing about what is going on in this project aside from the architectural / feature planning discussions I've had with marketing/junior

I've been trying to learn vuejs for what seems like weeks and weeks and I'm just not "getting it" I come from a strong oop php background and this paradigm is using tons of tech I know basically nothing about. Every time I talk to junior I get super depressed cause he's speeding along and I'm still completely clueless.. what the FUCK do I do

T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM

This is how PHP refers to :: internally, it's the only fucking token with such a weird name, what is this fucking language?

Who is writing this shit? OOP but it's completely optional? Where is the goddamn sheriff? I'm done, off to Ruby, Python, Go or anything that's not fucking PHP. Sick of this shit. Fuck this language.

How can such a massive language be so poorly designed!?

Well this is the thing. I have been starting to replace a lot of my shit with Golang. I think it is a great language because of one small fact: it is a boring language.

With this I don't mean that it is not incredibly fun to use. It is and honestly I feel that a lot of the concepts that I had from C passed quite nicely with some additions. The language does not do anything special and there is no elegant code. It works in a very procedural fashion without taking into consideration any of the snazzy things found in JS, Python, c# etc etc. Interfaces and struct make sense to me, way more than oop does in other languages. I don't need generics with the use of interface parameters and I have hadly found a situation in which I have to strive too far away from the way things are done with Go to be happy with it, then again my projects are not hard or by any means groundbreaking (most of them deal with logistics or content management and a couple of financial apps that I am rewriting in Go from work)

The outcome is fast and easy to read since idiomatic go is for the most part very readable(no people...single letter variable names are by no means a standard and they should feel ashamed from it)

I miss the idea of a framework, but not so much and the docs and internal code for Go is just way top inviting. I believe the code to be readable enough than anyone that has gotten used to the syntax and ideas of the language can just jump in and start learning. This is the first language that I have learnt from studying the code as it is inside of the standard lib, the same I cannot say for any other language or framework.

Also, it play beautifully nice with vs code.

I dunno man, I feel that I am doing something wrong. I have projects built in Node, php, python, ruby and spring java as well as .net core and I still find Golang way more appealing simply because it goes harder than Python with "one preferred way" to do things.

The lang does not make me feel like a pro, i certainly develop in it at pro speeds, but it was made with beginners in mind to built fast and concurrent apps, with the most minimal syntax possible.

I guess my gripe with it is that it gets shunned from this, saying that it ignored years of lang research to make it as dumbed down as possible. Which it did, lack of generics amongst other things certainly make it seem like, but I will not say that it was poorly designed. Not at all, I believe it is a testament of amazing engineering. To be able to create such a simple yet amazingly powerful language.

Wish there were more to it. Wish there was a nice gui lib or a ml framework comparable to the ones offered by python and java. But I guess such things will come with time.

I feel stupid with this language.

And that is fine.

One of the things that I like the most regarding Clojure(and most Lisps to be honest) is how "not for beginners" the ecosystem feels.
Don't get me wrong, setting up a project in lein with dependencies(both internal and external) is a cakewalk, installing lein or boot is a cakewalk. Setting environment consts and middleware etc etc is a cakewalk.
Its just that there are no blogs about convoluted and amateurish ways of doing things. Most presentations and articles are written by really experienced and talented individuals.

I dunno, its just a nice shift in community. Its nice to see people not fucking up Object Oriented programming in java or any of the other oop languages. Its nice not seeing people giving horrible advice regarding memory management in C or c++ and it is sure as shit nice to not see spaghetti php und js code.

And my productivity levels are off the charts man. Really liking this shit and I get to stay inside my JVM

I just love PHP. You can do so much awesome stuff with it. Here, let me show you:

How to READ a private member of an object:
$reader = \Closure::bind(function ($instance, $name) {
return $instance->{$name};
}, null, $instance);
$value = $reader($instance, $name);

How to WRITE a private member of an object:
$writer = \Closure::bind(function ($instance, $name, $value) {
$instance->{$name} = $value;
}, null, $instance);
$writer($instance, $name, $value);

See? Just like that. This is really amazing stuff. I don't know of any other languages that allow this.

That feeling when you think your workflow is bad and happens to see"Professional" Degree level team of coders writing crap code with even crappier workflow

I really hate PHP frameworks.

I also often write my own frameworks but propriety. I have two decades experience doing without frameworks, writing frameworks and using frameworks.

Virtually every PHP framework I've ever used has causes more headaches than if I had simply written the code.

Let me give you an example. I want a tinyint in my database.

> Unknown column type "tinyint" requested.

Oh, doctrine doesn't support it and wont fix. Doctrine is a library that takes a perfectly good feature rich powerful enough database system and nerfs it to the capabilities of mysql 1.0.0 for portability and because the devs don't actually have the time to create a full ORM library. Sadly it's also the defacto for certain filthy disgusting frameworks whose name I shan't speak.

So I add my own type class. Annoying but what can you do.

I have to try to use it and to do so I have to register it in two places like this (pseudo)...

Types::add(Tinyint::class);
Doctrine::add(Tinyint::class);

Seems simply enough so I run it and see...

> Type tinyint already exists.

So I assume it's doing some magic loading it based on the directory and commend out the Type::add line to see.

> Type to be overwritten tinyint does not exist.

Are you fucking kidding me?

At this point I figure out it must be running twice. It's booting twice. Do I get a stack trace by default from a CLI command? Of course not because who would ever need that?

I take a quick look at parent::boot(). HttpKernel is the standard for Cli Commands?

I notice it has state, uses a protected booted property but I'm curious why it tries to boot so many times. I assume it's user error.

After some fiddling around I get a stack trace but only one boot. How is it possible?

It's not user error, the program flow of the framework is just sub par and it just calls boot all over the place.

I use the state variable and I have to do it in a weird way...

> $booted = $this->booted;parent::boot();if (!$booted) {doStuffOnceThatDependsOnParentBootage();}

A bit awkward but not life and death. I could probably just return but believe or not the parent is doing some crap if already booted. A common ugly practice but one that works is to usually call doSomething and have something only work around the state.

The thing is, doctrine does use TINYINT for bool and it gets all super confused now running commands like updates. It keeps trying to push changes when nothing changed. I'm building my own schema differential system for another project and it doesn't have these problems out of the box. It's not clever enough to handle ambiguous reverse mappings when single types are defined and it should be possible to match the right one or heck both are fine in this case. I'd expect ambiguity to be a problem with reverse engineer, not compare schema to an exact schema.

This is numpty country. Changing TINYINT UNSIGNED to TINYINT UNSIGNED. IT can't even compare two before and after strings.

There's a few other boots I could use but who cares. The internet seems to want to use that boot function. There's also init stages missing. Believe it or not there's a shutdown and reboot for the kernel. It might not be obvious but the Type::add line wants to go not in the boot method but in the top level scope along with the class definition. The top level scope is run only once.

I think people using OOP frameworks forget that there's a scope outside of the object in PHP. It's not ideal but does the trick given the functionality is confined to static only. The register command appears to have it's own check and noop or simply overwrite if the command is issued twice making things more confusing as it was working with register type before to merely alias a type to an existing type so that it could detect it from SQL when reverse engineering.

I start to wonder if I should just use columnDefinition.

It's this. Constantly on a daily basis using these pretentious stuck up frameworks and libraries.

It's not just the palava which in this case is relatively mild compared to some of the headaches that arise. It's that if you use a framework you expect basic things out of the box like oh I don't know support for the byte/char/tinyint/int8 type and a differential command that's able to compare two strings to see if they're different.

Some people might say you're using it wrong. There is such a thing as a learning curve and this one goes down, learning all the things it can't do. It's cripplesauce.

thinking about getting a laracasts subscribtion, is it worth it at all? I've recently been working with PHP a lot, and my OOP skills are pretty narrow tbh, I wanted to learn more OOP and laravel, because there are a lot of job's that require you laravel knowledge.

FUCK YOU PHP, FUCK YOU SYMFONY AND DEFINITELY FUCK YOU SHOPWARE.

Don't get me wrong, PHP has evolved a lot, but the stuff people are building with it is just the biggest load of fucking shit I have ever seen: Shopware. Shopware is the most ass-sucking abomination to extend. It's nearly impossible to develop anything beyond "use the standard features and shut the fuck up" that is more sophisticated than a fucking calculator.

The architecture of this pile of crap is the worst bullshit ever. A mix of OOP, randomly making use of non OOP concepts and features together with the unnecessarily HUGE amount of useless interfaces and classes. Sometimes I feel like it's 90% fucking shitty boilerplate shit.

And don't get me started with TWIG. It's a nice thought, but WHY THE BLOODY FUCK WOULD YOU NOT USE VUE IF YOU ARE ALREADY USING IT FOR A DIFFERENT PART OF SHOPWARE. This makes no fucking sense whatsoever and makes development of new features a huge pain in the ass. I can't comprehend how people actually like using this shit.

OH AND THE DATABASE. OH MY FUCKING GOD. This one is bad. Ever tried to figure anything out in a database where random strings (yes MySQL "relational" - you might think) that are stored as text in a JSON format make up some object or relations during runtime?? Why the fuck do you have foreign and primary keys if you don't use them properly??

Seriously you can't even figure out which data belongs to what because the architecture just sucks fucking ass. FUCK YOU Shopware wankers, you suck, your product sucks, your support sucks, your architecture sucks and you keep releasing new versions that regularly break shit even in minor versions.

I used to like PHP, but not in projects like these.

Just got an internship a few days ago. The manager threw a project at me. I have to do it alone. It's a user-system (registration, login etc.) The front-end is ready. And I have to build its back-end in PHP. I started to draw the project on paper (pseudocode) and then asked a few questions about design patterns to jump into coding. They recommended me Laravel. I'm good at PHP (procedural) and have done some basic OOP. I've actually built a few projects in Python using OOP. But I've never used any framework (yeah, I know). So I started to learn Laravel and realized that it's very different than normal PHP (procedural or even normal OOP). I almost don't write any normal PHP code. This makes me confused. But I have to learn it fast and well, and finish the project to hit the deadline and get the full-time job. I'm desperately looking for any kind of help to learn Laravel more effectively! I've googled and got some recommendations. But I need more live help from devs directly.

I dont understand why we must use PHP to
understand OOP

Im a student software developer and this is the first time i will learn about Object Oriented programming but i dont know man im really confused why our prof makes us use PHP to understand the concept of OOP rather than to learn Python or Java which is ten times easier for an OOP based application

I can understand that PHP can be used for OOP but why just why... can someone please explain why this might be and how does it feel to use PHP for OOP purpouses

Once I maintained one of the most used and fucked up codebases on the market with almost 1M+ daily users. (cannot say more, sorry).

It's written in PHP and is absolutely terrifying,
the first time I saw some lines of code I was about to scream and cry.

- spaghetti code
- no indentation
- random SQL query unoptimized
- unused vars
- Code is split among several files with no logical reasoning
- Mixed procedural and oop programming
- Unsanitised user input (yes, you got it right)

No test environment, no backup database, every commit goes straight to production.

It's a real disaster but the company prefers to keep it as it is without refactoring or anything else.

Just to make it clear:
It's not hatred against PHP, it's against the code's current status and the older programmers which used to work on it.

So I have a job interview on Monday for a marketing firm that works on a LAMP stack. Not a problem, since that's what I learned on and I love linux, but I haven't seriously touched PHP for years. So now I'm going back to do a refresher on OOP PHP and I'm like, "what the hell is a variable variable?"

Wish me luck..

A fellow PHP dev I know implies procedural php is better in any way shape or form than OOP as it increases readability...

wizz kid in my office has been working on a back end heavy web based application for 2 weeks. I joined it 1 week ago to learn php since I have never done any oop and only very basic php and mysql scripts.

now he's pissing off for a week and leaving me 70% of the app to complete and code that goes 6 classes deep.

The app has to be demo ready in 1 week and my boyfriend as thinks everything is fine.

fml right...

Been wanting to get into OOP and unit testing, haven't found a single semi big project that I can use to study these techniques...

Wrote myself a class when asked to do an API call last week, and I think it looks pretty decent...

Does anyone have a ressource to just see how to do it "properly" on medium sized projects? (100k loc)

Because of the amount of complaining I do at work concerning legacy php applications the HOD is trying to push for different technologies to use for backend services. We have met multiple times to discuss the proper way of handling the situation since there are a lot of very obvious things to consider regarding the push for a new tech stack. The typical names have come about, but my biggest issue will be training people for these stacks.

Testing environments with docker and so forth, push for CERTAIN applications to be more API centric and the use of better frontend frameworks that will remain standard for years to come(hard to bet on this one but I tend to orefer React) among other things are the topics of conversation.

Personally I would love to move the shop to something geared towards Golang, thing is, the lead dev is complaining about it saying that the training for a new language would just take time. After a couple of examples he is still not convinced.

I think its wrong of him to center himself on just PHP and JQUERY as the main development stack he uses and learning new things should be part of the job, I also have a case against the spaghetti code that results from just using vanilla php with no proper development practices(composer based systems, oop etc etc you get the gist)

In the end I am starting to think that it will become one of those "fuck off I am the boss" type of deal since I am going to be here after a long time and he has about 2 years before he medically retire.

What do you think of Elixir + Phoenix to build API’s? Is it a better choice than a more established language like Python or something more new like Scala or Clojure?

At my company we're going through a watershed moment where we're starting to discuss and think about re-building our digital foundations and nothing is off limits. I'm leading the discussion about our architecture where everyone can have their say into what the future looks like for our applications. We're currently on a Drupal (CMS)  + PHP7/Symfony (Backend Content Repository) + Symfony Twig templates (Frontend)

Even though I have been developing in PHP most of my career, I personally love Elixir and spend a lot of my time away from work learning it but many of my reasons feels subjective like pattern matching, it's actor concurrency model, immutable data and not having to deal with classes/objects, and I'm not entirely sure how that translates to business value, advocating successfully for a tech stack change requires solid reasoning and good answers to challenges like how do we find Elixir developers when existing devs leave, how easy is it to build a CI/CD pipeline for Elixir/Phoenix, etc.

personal projects, of course, but let's count the only one that could actually be considered finished and released.

which was a local social network site. i was making and running it for about three years as a replacement for a site that its original admin took down without warning because he got fed up with the community. i loved the community and missed it, so that was my motivation to learn web stack (html, css, php, mysql, js).

first version was done and up in a week, single flat php file, no oop, just ifs. was about 5k lines long and was missing 90% of features, but i got it out and by word of mouth/mail is started gathering the community back.

right as i put it up, i learned about include directive, so i started re-coding it from scratch, and "this time properly", separated into one file per page.

that took about a month, got to about 10k lines of code, with about 30% of planned functionality.

i put it up, and then i learned that php can do objects, so i started another rewrite from scratch. two or three months later, about 15k lines of code, and 60% of the intended functionality.

i put it up, and learned about ajax (which was a pretty new thing since this was 2006), so i started another rewrite, this time not completely from scratch i think.

three months later, final length about 30k lines of code, and 120% of originally intended functionality (since i got some new features ideas along the way).

put it up, was very happy with it, and since i gathered quite a lot of user-generated data already through all of that time, i started seeing patterns, and started to think about some crazy stuff like auto-tagging posts based on their content (tags like positive, negative, angry, sad, family issues, health issues, etc), rewarding users based on auto-detection whether their comments stirred more (and good) discussion, or stifled it, tracking user's mental health and life situation (scale of great to horrible, something like that) based on the analysis of the texts of their posts...

... never got around to that though, missed two months hosting payments and in that time the admin of the original site put it back up, so i just told people to move back there.

awesome experience, though. worth every second.

to this day probably the project i'm most proud of (which is sad, i suppose) - the final version had its own builtin forum section with proper topics, reply threads, wysiwyg post editor, personal diaries where people could set per-post visibility (everyone, only logged in users, only my friends), mental health questionnaires that tracked user's results in time and showed them in a cool flash charts, questionnaire editor where users could make their own tests/quizzes, article section, like/dislike voting on everything, page-global ajax chat of all users that would stay open in bottom right corner, hangouts-style, private messages, even a "pointer" system where sending special commands to the chat aimed at a specific user would cause page elements to highlight on their client, meaning if someone asked "how do i do this thing on the page?", i could send that command and the button to the subpage would get highlighted, after they clicked it and the subpage loaded, the next step in the process would get highlighted, with a custom explanation text, etc...

dammit, now i got seriously nostalgic. it was an awesome piece of work, if i may say so. and i wasn't the only one thinking that, since showing the page off landed me my first two or three programming jobs, right out of highschool. 10 minutes of smalltalk, then they asked about my knowledge, i whipped up that site and gave a short walkthrough talking a bit about how the most interesting pieces were implemented, done, hired XD

those were good times, when I still felt like the programmer whiz kid =D

as i said, worth every second, every drop of sweat, every torn hair, several times over, even though "actual net financial profit" was around minus two hundred euro paid for those two or three years of hosting.

What to reply to a person who insist to use procedural php for developing website(with lot of services ofc) instead of framework which uses OOP concepts?
And says it will take too much time to learn those concepts and to implement it.

PHP scripters bashing OOP saying it's shit, yet I have NEVER seen them writing a procedural app that encapsulates business logic correctly

(not a rant) Knowledge seeker XD

I'm about to start my life as unemployed/fresh grad , and I'm still not sure if my coding was good or right (proper coding). But I already have an experience on creating Android App (Java) and MySQL as database , Web Dev (HTML, CSS, Javascript, PHP, MySQL database) implement plugins like JQuery , Bootstrap , Chart.js , and DataTables , basics of Python , GIT ,and understanding of OOP.

I'd like to know where I can learn proper coding and good practices , where I can solve sample machine problem , learn different programming languages , and tips that might help me to be better.

note: I already do some research about this topics , I just want to get more answer as much as possible , Thank you :)

May the bug/s be fixed by you.

Books.
Do you guys know a good book for professional PHP 7 programming, especially OOP, concepts, design patterns, abstraction, algorithms, security and data structures?
Please not that beginner stuff, I want to dive deeper into PHP 7 😁
Maybe in German or English 😋

Fat model or fat controller?

Im a php backend dev for over 7 years. (Lately mostly laravel).
Im going to look for a new job and have 2-3 free weeks to try and learn a new language and switch to that in my next job.
Please advise if i should
1. Switch to Python (should be relatively close to php oop) + opens AI jobs opportunity for the future.

2. Switch to NodeJs. (Web/api knowledge similar to php) + will be easier to learn frontend skills later (ie angular/etc)

3. Look for another PHP job. - if 2-3 weeks is not enough time to learn nodejs/python well enough to get an actual job without experience with them.

Really can't decide which path to take, please help

Any more advance good reads ?

I wrote my first proper promise today

I'm building a State-driven, ajax fed Order/Invoice creation UI which Sales Reps use to place purchases for customers over the phone. The backend is a mutated PHP OSCommerce catalog which I've been making strides in refactoring towards OOP/eliminating spahgetti code and the need for a massive bootstrapper file which includes a ton of nonsense (I started by isolating the session and several crucial classes dealing with currency, language and the cart)

I'm using raw JS and jquery with copious reorganization.

I like state driven design, so I write all my data objects as classes using a base class with a simple attribute setter, and then extend the class and define it's attributes as an array which is passed to the parent setter in the construct.

I have also populateFromJson method in the parent class which allows me to match the attribute names to database fields in the backend which returns via ajax.

I achieve the state tracking by placing these objects into an array which underscore.js Observe watches, and that triggers methods to update the DOM or other objects.

Sure, I could do this in react but
1) It's in an admin area where the sales reps using it have to use edge/chrome/Firefox
2) I'm still climbing the react learning curve, so I can rapid prototype in jquery faster instead of getting hung up on something I don't understand
3) said admin area already uses jquery anyway
4) I like a challenge

Implementing promises is quickly turning messy jquery ajax calls into neat organized promise based operations that fit into my state tracking paradigm, so all jquery is responsible for is user interaction events.

The big flaw I want to address is that I'm still making html elements as JS strings to generate inputs/fields into the pseudo-forms.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a library or practice that allows me to generate Dom elements in a template-style manner.

Still as a scholar who has had his intership I decided that I was finally confident enough in my ability to apply for a small part-time programming job. I had an internship at a cool exhausting place with tons of expertise and I've proven myselve over there. So now I wanted a job on the side. Nothing special, just something that would make a little money with programming instead of washing dishes at the restaurant.

So I started at this small internet based startup (2 or 3 progammers) as a backend-oriented programmer. The working hours were amazingly compatible with my school schedule.

The lead dev also sounded like a smart guy. He had worked as a backend guy for years and had code running on verry critical public infrastructure that if it were to fail we'd be evacuated from our homes.

As a first asignment I got an isolated task to make an importer for some kind of file format that needed integration. So I asked for access to the code. I didn't get it since they were going to re-do the entire backend based on the code I wrote. I just needed to parse the file in a usable object structure. So I found out that the file format was horrible and made a quite nice set of objects that were nice. At the end of the first week or so I asked if I could get access to the code again, so I could integrate it. Answer was no. The lead dev would do that. I could however get access to my private repository.

Next week a new intern was taken to build a multiplatform responsive app. Only downside was that all the stuff he had ever done was php based websites. It wasn't going anywhere anytime soon, but I figured that that was where internships were for. So I ended up helping him a lot and taught him some concepts of OOP and S.O.L.I.D. and the occasional 30 minute rants of IndexOutOfRangeException, ArgumentException and such.

So one day he asked me how to parse a json string and retrieve a specific field out of it.
I gave him something like the following to start with:
"
JObject json;
if(!JObject.TryParse(jsonString, out json))
{
//handle error
}
string value;
if(!json.tryget("foo", out value).../// code continues
"

but then the main dev stepped in and proposed the following since it wouldn't crash on an API change:
"
dynamic json = new JObject(jsonString);
string value = json.myJsonValue;
"

After me trying to explain to him that this was a bad choise for about 15 minutes because of all kinds of reasons I just gave up. I was verry mad that this young boy was forced to use bad programming pracises while he was clearly still learning. I know I shouldn't pick up certain practises. But that boy didn't.

Almost everytime the main dev was at the office I had such a mindboggling experience.

After that I got a new assignment.
I had to write another xml file format parser.
Of course I couldn't have any access to our current code because... it was unnecesary. We were going to use my code as a total replacement for the backend again.
And for some reason classes generated from XSD weren't clear enough so after carefull research I literally wrapped xsd generated code in equivalent classes.

At that moment, I realized I made some code that was totally useless since it wasn't compatible with any form of their API or any of the other backend code. (I haven't seen their API. I didn't have access to the source.) And since I could've just pushed them generated XSD's that would've produced thesame datastructure I felt like I was a cheat. I also didn't like that I wasn't allowed to install even the most basic tooling. (git client or, Ide refactoring plugins, spelling checker etc...)

Now I was also told that I couldn't discuss issues with the new guy anymore since it was a waste of my valuable time, and they were afraid that I taught him wrong concepts.

This was the time that my first paycheck came in so I quitted my job.
I haven't seen any of the features that I've worked on. :)

I learned today that learning programming in MVC architecture has nothing to do with programming but understanding objects, layers, architecture etc.

Please dear tutorial creators, introduce me to the subject with explanations of those and not with some code of mvc or whatever.

Good tips to move more into PHP OOP?
Been writing procedural PHP for long time - now I need to step it up ASAP.a

There is a book or list of videos that you guys recommend to learn better practices in the world of OOP?

PhP OOP or procedural programming?

Who else doesn't give a shit about OOP and MVC frameworks in php 😂 😂....

i am frightened. i have a feeling the only person i can talk about programming stuff twice a year is getting out of touch.

as if the rarity of the talks is not bad enough, our tech stack edges away every time. he is the most intelligent person, yet i see no huge advantages and my strides just raise a shrug. not out of lack of interest but from pure inexperience. we have a long history of joint projects, but i fear the day only he relieves about his webdev experiences with his php-es5-css-stack, while i can not contribute with my knowledge about python- and vba-automation, oop and es6+. as if he would not be able to wrap his head about all this in a blink of an eye.

How to start learning PHP MVC and OOP?

I’m starting a new job and it’s custom software, but I’m coming from a wordpress development background.