Registration confirmation email received from clover community website. Well played Clover 👍

Don't send me a confirmation email that I successfully unsubscribed from your list you shit nugget.

You is not gonna beliebers what just happened lol

So a couple weeks ago I earned a stress ball (300+ ++'s) I sent an email about it but never got a reply, so I decided to just forget about it. But then I just ranted (lastnight) about how its so hard to get a stressball. So I basically just said "fuck it i'll buy one". Then some dude comes along and is like "omg not until he shows us the bought one" so I'm like CHALLENGE ACCEPTED and buy one...

Then I get an email confirmation from devrant store confirming my order for the bought stressball. And I notive that my spam folder has unread messages in it. i look inside the spam folder and what do I see?...

I see dfox replying to my free stressball request weeks ago lol. So yay, now I gets the 3 balls (or two - depending) lol omg, so many balls.

MOTHERFUCKING MICROSOFT!!! JUST SEND ME THIS FUCKING EMAIL !!!! WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?!? EVERY FUCKING TIME IT TAKES TOOOOOOO MUUUUUCH TIME TO RECEIVE ANY FUCKING CONFIRMATION EMAIL!!! ITS FUCKING 2017 ALREADY GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER YOU PIECE OF SHIT

>>Gets email about a social issue and completely disagree with the organization that sends email.
>>clicks unsubscribe and puts "I didn't sign up for this" as the reason why.
>>2 days later get another email from the exact same place
>>clicks unsubscribe and types "Listen here you victim playing fuckers. I told you to unsubscribe from this email list because I don't want to receive emails from your bullshit organization. Fuck you."
>>Gets a confirmation email that my name has been removed moments later.

Moral of the story: Strong language gets the job done.

You have been unsubscribed from this mailing list.
You will recieve a confirmation email.

Why is the confirmation needed?

Ubbhhhh <<-- me when I realized I put gmail.con instead of gmail.com for my devRant account.

It's been actually quite a while since I'm here but couldn't do anything but read others rants since I never got the confirmation email because of that silly mistake.

It's now my chance to say hi to everyone 🤗

Me: Hello, IT Support? I can't use your system because as I log in I can't bypass a form saying I must confirm my email. But I haven't received any confirmation email. Can you resend it?

Support: We can't resend it, you have to do that yourself. What's your email?

Me: it's <blahblah>.gmail.com

Support: have you checked Junk?

Me: I sure have!

Support: Then please restart your computer and the email should come

Me: ....................
Me: have a nice day

One Thursday noon,
operation manager: (looking at mobile)what the.....something is wrong i am getting bunch of emails about orders getting confirmed.
Colleague dev: (checks the main email where it gets all email sent/received) holy shit all of our clients getting confirmation email for orders which were already cancelled/incomplete.
Me: imediately contacting bluehost support, asking them to down the server so just that we can stopp it, 600+ emails were already sent and people keep getting it.
*calls head of IT* telling the situation because he's not in the office atm.

CEO: wtf is happening with my business, is it a hacker?

*so we have a intrusion somebody messed the site with a script or something*

All of us(dev) sits on the code finding the vulnerabilities , trying to track the issue that how somebody was able to do that.

*After an hour*

So we have gone through almost easch function written in the code which could possibly cause that but unable to find anything which could break it.

Head asking op when did you started getting it actually?
Op: right after 12 pm.

*an other hour passes*

Head: (checking the logs) so right after the last commit, site got updated too?. And....and.....wtf what da hell who wrote this shit in last commit?
* this fuckin query is missing damn where clause* 🤬

Me: me 😰

*long pause, everyone looking at me and i couldn't look at anyone*
The shame and me that how can i do that.

Head: so its you not any intrudor 😡
Further investigating, what the holy mother of #_/&;=568 why cronjob doesn't check how old the order is. Why why why.

(So basically this happened, because of that query all cancelled/incomplete orders got updated damage done already, helping it the cronjob running on all of them sending clients email and with that function some other values got updated too, inshort the whole db is fucked up.)
and now they know who did it as well.

*Head after some time cooling down, asked me the solution for the mess i create*

Me: i took backup just couple of days before i can restore that with a script and can do manual stuff for the recent 2 days. ( operation manager was already calling people and apologising from our side )

Head: okay do it now.

Me: *in panic* wrote a script to restore the records ( checking what i wrote 100000000 times now ), ran...tested...all working...restored the data.
after that wrote an apology email, because of me staff had to work alot and it becomes so hectic just because of me.

* at the end of the day CEO, head, staff accepted apology and asked me to be careful next time, so it actually teached me a lesson and i always always try to be more careful now especially with quries. People are really good here so that's how it goes* 🙂

fucking hostgator!

go suck a cock you developers!

everything from their payment system to their support is crap.

a few days ago, i purchased a website from hostgator, with a year of hosting during black friday weekend. i had obtained a black friday coupon code that entitled me to roughly $160 off its usual price. that said, i filled out the registration form and clicked the 'checkout' button.

right after i clicked it, i saw i forgot to put in the coupon code, and pressed the back button on my browser. then i put in the code and proceeded with checkout.

guess what?

those MOTHERFUCKING GREEDY ASS BITCHES charged me TWICE, one with the coupon and one without.

i contacted customer support and told them what happened after waiting about double the time i was supposed to be connected to support.

of course, they asked for my fucking "security" pin over the customer support live chat (totally not ironic).

they sent a confirmation email, and cancelled the payment without the coupon.

then ONE FUCKING DAY LATER, I tried to connect to my website.

MY SITE WAS FUCKING SUSPENDED.

die in a hole.

i contacted customer support once more, and after explaining the story, I had to wait four to eight hours.

i'll see how it turns out tomorrow.

die in a hole hostgator🖕

Just registered as a customer at an online store, and the fuckers sent me a confirmation email where my password was written in plain text. Why?!

Someone in Indonesia is using my email adress to order stuff from a site called Lazada. My email account is not compromised as far as I know. But It's really annoying always getting order confirmation emails in bahasa Indonesia.

I've got "kikis" phone number and adress. Any advice what i've could do to make her stop?

Stakeholder: Our customers aren’t getting their order confirmation emails. It’s going to their spam. Is there a way to resend the emails?

Me: Wait. The email getting sent to their spam is not the same as not getting the email. Is it both or just one of those things?

SH: Here are some emails getting sent to spam.

Me: These are sent by third party vendors that you contract with. I have no control over what they do. You need to talk to your vendors.

SH: 😮

Me: 😑

This is just priceless. I submitted my thesis to an academic congress, which sent me this confirmation email. They are so 'concerned about security' that they assured me the email is legitimate by including MY PASSWORD.

A friend of mine got an account hacked on Crunchyroll. Whenever he tried to login, the website told him that no account with his email existed. As I had two accounts, I tried something real quick. I logged in to the account I'm not using and tried to change the email address to a 10 minute mail. I logged into my own email account patiently waiting for a confirmation email. After 10 minutes I still hadn't received it. So I checked the 10 minute mail, and there it was. I can't describe how furious I got with Crunchyroll at that point. Are you for real? It's that easy? Fucking idiots. I hope the guy responsible for that system dies in a fire with a thousand rubber penises up his ass!

I just tried to sign up to Instagram. I made a big mistake.

First up with Facebook related stuff is data. Data, data and more data. Initially when you sign up (with a new account, not login with Facebook) you're asked your real name, email address and phone number. And finally the username you'd like to have on the service. I gave them a phone number that I actually own, that is in my iPhone, my daily driver right now (and yes I have 3 Androids which all run custom ROMs, hold your keyboards). The email address is a usual for me, instagram at my domain. I am a postmaster after all, and my mail server is a catch-all one. For a setup like that, this is perfectly reasonable. And here it's no different, devrant at my domain. On Facebook even, I use fb at my domain. I'm sure you're starting to see a pattern here. And on Facebook the username, real name and email domain are actually the same.

So I signed up, with - as far as I'm aware - perfectly valid data. I submitted the data and was told that someone at Instagram will review the data within 24 hours. That's already pretty dystopian to me. It is now how you block bots. It is not how Facebook does it either, at least since last time I checked. But whatever. You'd imagine that regardless of the result, they'd let you know. Cool, you're in, or sorry, you're rejected and here's why. Nope.

Fast-forward to today when I recalled that I wanted to sign up to Instagram to see my girlfriend's pictures. So I opened Chromium again that I already use only for the rancid Facebook shit.. and it was rejected. Apparently the mere act of signing up is a Terms of Service violation. I have read them. I do not know which section I have violated with the heinous act of signing up. But I do have a hunch.

Many times now have I been told by ignorant organizations that I would be "stealing" their intellectual property, or business assets or whatever, just because I sent them an email from their name on my domain. It is fucking retarded. That is MY domain, not yours. Learn how email works before you go educate a postmaster. Always funny to tell them how that works. But I think that in this case, that is what happened.

So I appealed it, using a random link to something on Instagram's help section from a third-party blog. You know it's good when the third-party random blog is better. But I found the form and filled it in. Same shit all over again for info, prefilling be damned I guess. Minor convenience though, whatever.

I get sent an email in German, because apparently browsing through a VPS in Germany acting as a VPN means you're German. Whatever... After translating it, I found that it asks me to upload a picture of myself, holding a paper in my hands, on which I would have a confirmation code, my username, and my email address.. all hand-written. It must not be too dark, it must be clear, it must be in JPEG.. look, I just wanted to fucking sign up.

I sent them an email back asking them to fix all of this. While I was writing it and this rant, I thought to myself that they can shove that piece of paper up their ass. In fact I would gladly do it for them.

Long story short, do not use Instagram. And one final thing I have gripes with every time. You are not being told all the data you'll have to present from the get-go. You're not being told the process. Initially I thought it'd just be email, phone, username, and real name. Once signed up (instantly, not within 24 hours!) I would start setting up my account and adding a profile picture. The right way to ask for a picture of me! And just do it at my own pace, as I please.

And for God's sake, tackle abuse when it actually happens. You'll find out who's a bot and who isn't by their usage patterns soon enough. Do not do any of this at sign-up. Or hell, use a CAPTCHA or whatever, I don't fucking care. There's so many millions of ways to skin this cat.

Facebook and especially Instagram. Both of them are fucking retarded.

From an email confirmation I got recently.

Good job guys.

Coming back here after years to rant about... myself.
TLDR: I fucked up and now have to call a thousand people as a dev, I'm not even getting paid for it and they all get crazy about a random ID that got assigned to them, so now I want to throw away all my electronics and become a skilift operator.

Stupid me deployed a project shortly before we have the largest amount of orders in the year. (Like 90% of yearly orders in a couple minutes cause they are sold out fast and people wait to order first)

I got this horrible legacy "plain self written framework php" project which I tried to upgrade state of the art.
There was one piece missing to upgrade everything and nicely deploy it to some fresh new servers which can handle the high load which peaks at the time orders open.

So I did it the day before orders open and... everything worked well! Nothing crashed.
I wrote my client to wait a little before he confirms the orders, since after confirmation each of the people who ordered will receive an email where they can choose a unique number which they'll receive as a sticker with the order.

Since it's an event my client is promoting, people will meet each other wearing those unique stickers and being able to identify each other online and in person with this number.

Suddenly my clients call me that "customers are complaining about that there is something wrong"
Turned out he confirmed all orders straight away and that part of the application which makes the number unique was broken on the update.
So everyone could chose any number (also taken ones) as his "unique" number.

In my panic, I told my client "It's my mistake, I'll deal with it of course and call the affected people in my free time, since it's my mistake you don't have to pay for it". (it's my largest client by far, am a freelancer)
Realizing when people can chose any number it'll not be a few ones who have the same, it's like almost everyone did chose "69", "1", "420", "88 (a scary amount of people)",... (with 69 being the number being chosen by most people btw, even more then "1")

So now I have to call about a thousand people telling them a new random ID will be assigned to them. I thought of course about mailing them, wrote a script that deals with the issue automatically, and FUCKED IT UP TOO so everyone is confused and the only way to deal with it is by a call basically.
And while I'm sitting here now for 2 days straight calling people in my free time about their random ID will have to change, I realized that some people are quite crazy about random ID's.
I'm talking about yelling and threatening because "is it too much to ask for a working website when ordering this expensive product".

I hate my life right now and am getting quite serious about throwing all my electronic devices away and become a skilift operator instead. Fuck the higher pay, it's not worth the shit, I wanna have only responsibility about one button to press while watching people fall on their face.

I used to work for a company that had a main website and a lightweight app. LW app was distributed to partners and added to other sites using an iframe.

Someone decided a requirement was to retain the shopping cart for anonymous users. Some dev thought the best way to do that was to issue auth cookies to anonymous users.

The auth cookie issued by the LW app was actually for the main site. A few users for LW app decided to just come to main site to make a purchase. Since they already had an auth cookie (issued from LW app), they were never prompted to log in, create an account, or use guest checkout on the main site. They were still able to complete their order and we had their shipping address, but we didn’t have their email address so we couldn’t contact them about their order.

Customer service had no way to email customers if something went out of stock or if there was a product recall. CS would have to call these customers and ask for email addresses. Good luck getting anyone to answer or return a call nowadays. Customers were asking where their confirmation email was. The admin website was polluted with “users” that had the placeholder email for non-logged in users.

This happened because of a combination of an understaffed and overextended engineering department. Of course when something goes bad it’s going to be bad.

I fucking hate websites where you register and they send you email confirmation WITH YOUR FUCKING PASSWORD AND USERNAME also when you purchase something from the same fucking website they send you email with order details and YOUR PASSSSSSWWWWOOOORDDDD. Fuck my country(Serbia) man...

Probably the worst security I've ever seen is a website I used to visit that had their "Forgot your password?" system change the password of the account to the user's username and didn't even send an email confirmation before doing it.

If the confirmation email for a registration doesn't arrive within 5 minutes I automatically go into "damn I entered it wrong" mode, trying to register again.
*email already in use*
😐😑... 😠.. 😂

Management: Add my email(personal) in the bcc of all the transactional mails (which includes forget password, email confirmation, payment, booking etc) we are sending in this project just to check the fucking cronjobs are working properly.

"I need the login credentials for the CMS service"

*sends the email confirmation email*

"No, I can't confirm your email for you. In plain English: send me the email and password to login."

"Ohhhhhhhhh"

Literally what the fuck is wrong with these people.

I swear we're all fucking doomed.

Me: *Chilling a little during a stressful day*

*Receive an email, because thankfully I am logged in and checking emails continuously as I am on job hunt*

*Click open*

Recruiter: I am over running a meeting, will join our connect in 10 minutes.

Me: *Trying to recall when did she schedule the call*

*Quickly check and figure that I shared my availability but never got a confirmation or a meeting invite*

Me: Apologies, but I never received any confirmation. I was waiting for your invite.

Recruiter: What? When did you reschedule?

Me: I never did. I never got a confirmation. Anyway, I am free so can hop on a call.

Recruiter: Oh! Sometimes the confirmation goes into the spam box. Here's the link, please join..

I join and she grills me with difficult questions that I am evidently not prepared.

I try to answer and be honest with everything.

But what the actual fuck! She lied to me and grilled me unnecessarily when she knew I wasn't even prepared.

And this is one of top global companies. Definitely not a great experience.

Stop lying and finding a reason to blame me for failing me because you are an incompetent fuck.

The company I work for used to be hosted on 3dcart. One day the site went down and their support couldn't tell us why. After over 24 hours of downtime they restored service but left 5 days of all records and customizations across the entire store, from the DB to the damn templates. Their support apologized for the outage blaming the disaster on a combination of hard disk failure and a bad update to their backup script. They were not willing to assist us in any way. We were forced to manually enter 5 days of orders (which gave them new order numbers and caused more problems), products and template changes, with order data coming from an internal email which was luckily CC'd on the order confirmation email. Thank God for whoever setup that CC, it saved our asses. In the end it cost our company thousands of dollars and 3dcart never composited us in any way.

So it's required by law to chip and register your dog. I just got a puppy so I had to change the owner of the dog from the kennel to me. And the only thing I needed was my chipvalue and the registration number.

So all I have to do is scan the dog and try the registration numbers and then I can change the owner. Like wtf. And it does not even send a confirmation email. I checked by changing owner and email again.

My registration number is only in the 600K so other registered pets should be easy enough to bruteforce.

Or am I missing something?

Do i really need to ?

Dropped Comcast cable & phone. I have to keep their internet. 11 days ago after cancelling the service on the phone I went to UPS store and shipped their equipment. A few days ago I get confirmation email that my equipment has been received by them. Today I get my bill and it is the whole bill despite my cancellation and despite the fact that I was without any service for 13 days. So I call them for a wtf session and they tell me my services show all up and nothing has been cancelled. I have to call the cancellation department again tomorrow because they are closed Sundays. I have had at least twenty calls with Comcast this month. At this point I am willing to pay twice the going eat for Google Fiber just to get rid of Comcast once and for all.

When you sign up for an email/api service and the confirmation email they send you goes to the spam folder....

not a good look

Who doesn't know the moment of absolute heartattack when you accidentally press/drag something or press some weird hotkey combination and something on screen flashes, disappears, groups your code, opens some random file, starts your email client or just simply closes what you were working on without any confirmation window

Client email: so you know that custom thing I wanted on my website that you made and I refused to pay for? Could you just send me the code, I'm gonna write my own.

*Staring at screen in disbelief and laughing*

Even if you were an awesome client, and you had paid, I still wouldn't just "give you my code" so you can write your own. You hired me to do it because you CAN'T not because you didn't want to, not because you're lazy, but because you are not mentally capable of making your own.

Me: I'm sorry, but I'm not sure you would even know where to start with this, what was wrong with the one built?

Client: I wanna put the code in my Salesforce so it can run the API request and automatically make a lead for me.

My code takes fields from a form, runs the data over to the API, gets the response, allows for user confirmation that the information is correct, and then sends all the relevant data to Salesforce as a lead.

Me: But that's exactly what mine does, just does it from your website where users will be entering the info, and once they've confirmed it you get a Salesforce lead.

Client: well some of my leads come from other places and I want to simplify everything.

Me: no, not possible, sorry.

If you didn't have 25 different websites for one company then all your leads would come from the same place and it would be simple.

So I want to inform my internet provider of my new phone number, but I can't remember any of my login info for their web interface because I never used it. Luckily, they have a "forgot my username" function, where I submit my email address and get a confirmation that my username has been sent to me.

Yet, I just don't get said email. I try again, but no avail. So I just guess my username and use their "forgot password" form, which – hooray! – confirms it just sent my an email.

But I don't get any email. I retry, I retry after a day, but no automatic response. I remember a incident a few years back when I didn't get some automatically generated mails from a company and decide to contact their support if they could just reset my password manually.

Nearly a week passes.

Now I received the answer. I just don't have an account.

Lesson learned: Next time I'll just input garbage first to check if those forms are sane.

Still waiting for that confirmation email. Multiple resends and still nothing. My inbox has nothing from devrant. Now I can't ++. I want to ++. Seems like I can't have anything I want at all.
.
.
.
.

That's old. I deleted and created my account again but the rant was still saved so I thought why not start with it.

I started using Keepass like 2 months ago, and recently i started going through all my email accounts to compile a list of all the services i've ever signed up to; delete the accounts you don't need and move everything else to keepass with a strong passwd, that was the plan.
I'm still going, but out of the 60 i have so far, 10 sites just had the password, *in plain text*, in the confirmation email!! I don't even konw anymore, just end me now plz 😢

Anyone here has any experience with buying shit from STMicroelectronics? Requested a fucking account like an hour ago and their shit confirmation email has not gotten to me yet.

Any other sites y'all would recommend for getting their shit? This bs is getting ridiculous...for a company whose fucking assets are worth billions to take this fucking long to send a confirmation email.

Fucking Adafruit took nada to send me the shit i wanted. Fucking hell man.

That moment when the shop you just bought something from send you back a confirmation email with your password in clear... :/

Ever got so pissed off at a client that their very thoughts can send you into convulsions. they stalk you through every fucking media with changes; facebook, WhatsApp, sms, calls (thank God not devRant) on a never ending project, then you receive an email from them and as you're about to swing the laptop through the window you realize it's payment confirmation :|

Fucking Mediamarkt. I ordered a Switch and Animal Crossing which supposedly were in stock, immediately deliverable. Not only did they not arrive on time (which was already a week later) I still don't even have a purchase confirmation email. As you might have guessed now all Switch Lite models and Animal Crossing New Horizons are out of stock

For fuck sake, don't sell things you don't have! >:(

So I downloaded this game (to be fair, it is a preview version for a kickstarter project) and I had to crate an account with my mail address in order to sign in. Fair enough, I fill in this form and it says "invalid mail adress". It came to my attention that the form automatically put a space behind the mail adress so I had removed it. After I put back the space everything worked, but now I can't sign in because I didn't get the confirmation email (I assume because they sent it to [my email]+[space] instead of just my email). Currently chatting with the support guy, seems like a nice guy and I can't blame them because my mistakes are often even dumber, but before you post a preview version of your product online as a first impression, check if it even works. Please. Especially if the reason for posting it online is asking people for money.

that's a devrant start, your confirmation email landed as spam on my inbox :P #devrant support

This month I learned that account confirmation via email is a hard thing to do for a lot of users.

How do I know I did it right with the ordering of my free swag?

Isn't there a confirmation Email?

I wrote a longer rant but fell asleep while trying to write it. I just wanted to say FUCK EMAIL. Fuck it all. It is cancer. Setting up a mail service for sending "forgot your password?" and registration confirmation type messages is one of the shittiest computer related tasks I've done in my entire life.

I did some online shopping on the weekend. And oh man, this retailer’s checkout had so many problems.

I placed an order for a 2022 edition of their magazine. My confirmation page lists the 2020 edition. I didn’t get a confirmation email and I’m sure my email was right.

I chat with customer service and they said my order was for their car buying guide. You bet my my response was what the fuck.

Just wanted to buy a gift for my gf, so I went to birchbox.fr to buy her a 3 months subscription (irrelevant information).

So of course I needed to create an accout in order to buy it.

But what a surprise when I received a confirmation email, with my password in PLAIN TEXT inside. I guess I do really love her for not cancelling the gift and deleting my account immediately.

So the other day i paid for the sitepoint/mapt bundle since i was eager to learn to setup a website i bought awhile back.

Yet buying from mapt seemed to have been a waste of time, first off no comfirmation email just a tiny pop up on their website, the website seemed a little poorly setup since for one i wasn't even aware i had access to all their content.

Afterwards i never got a coupon for site point which was something i was looking forward to, i used mapt stuff before and two of the ebooks that i spent lots of time invested into had issues that basically stopped me half way, thus wasting all of my time.

I emailed on friday about this coupon, and finally getting one on monday i created an account used the coupon and guess what "this coupon has been used already"

WTF is this shit?

So all in all the irony of a fucking website that has content to create websites from scratch and probably including automated emails to alleviate all of these issues that has yet to use any of these things!

I'm still in the middle of customer support trying to get a working coupon for the other half of the bundle i paid for. The hilarious thing is they want an order number from me, which i don't have at all due to no automated email for order confirmation. I guess i wait yet another two days to get crappy response.

@dfox I messed up an order on the shop: ordered with the company email for some reason and when I saw the confirmation email on my the email I deleted it lol. Obviously need some coffee. Can you send me an email so we can talk?

How do I opt out of the confirmation email that comes when you unsubscribe from the mailing list?

Dear emailing list,

Do not send me a confirmation email to let me know that my cancellation to your stupid email list was successful. Fuck you. I don't believe you.

!rant (maybe duplicate)

Finally I was able to verify my email and start writing on devRant after a couple years or so (email confirmation was not being sent correctly because of a bug)

-end of (low quality) rant

A friend wants to post a rant about that devRant doesnt sent him the email confirmation but he can't because his email is not confirmed. Hahaha

Just cut down registration from 5s api response (because its sending email confirmation) into 70ms using rabbitmq (emails are now delegated in rabbit queue and sent whenever the queue takes place)

But still around 70ms to register which is great and fast (because it also generates jwt token and returns the whole user object + jwt) so its difficult to keep this at 7-9ms response time

Is this normal and is it fine to leave it at 70 or can this be optimized (or should it be)?

I understand some of my stakeholders have more stressful roles than others, but I really wish they’d slow down and take a moment to process.

One of them recently forwarded me a customer inquiry about an order confirmation email because the customer gave the impression that they received the email in error. The customer’s message was “2018? What is this?” It was a confirmation for an old order. A really old order. From 2018. I guess my stakeholder thought an old confirmation email was resent, but my stakeholder just had to look at the original message section of the email, which stated the email was sent in 2018. Y’all, that email was sent years before I starting working for them.

I told stakeholder that I don’t know what this customer is looking for from us. IMO since this is for an order from FOUR YEARS AGO, I don’t think we should put any more time into investigating it.

Even my Product Manager agreed that our stakeholders need to do more diligence on their end (like asking the customer why they are following up on a four year old order) before coming to Engineering and taking up our time.