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Search - "website cost"
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Prospective client: “I have a website through which I sell music, both physical copies and downloads, but am having all kinds of issues with it”.
Me: “Like what? Tell me more.”
Client: “Go to www... I’ll go through them with you”.
So I go, and client proceeds to rattle off a list of totally random shit for the next 26 and a half minutes without even stopping for breath, telling me what he’d prefer, talking through how easy other “similar” websites are and comparing his own website to them, as well as all the things that flat out just don’t work. He ended with the line “I just paid my developer who told me it was all good, but now he’s telling me he’s too busy to work on it”.
Meanwhile I’ve had a gander at “view source” and can see it’s been “built” with Wordpress, and with a fuck ton of plugins and shit to boot... you can only imagine the sense of euphoria I’m feeling at this point.
Me: “Did you have a contract with your developer?”
Client: “Nah”.
Me: “Do you have a budget in mind, either for just making right or for ongoing development?”
Client: “Yes, but minimal”.
Me: “So what do you want from me?”
Client: “I want to know how much it’s going to cost to fix!!!!” (apparently irritated by my question).
Me: “Oooook... Is there any way I can have access to your website to investigate, or clone it so I can recreate what’s going on?”
Client: “Yes” (gives me details of how to log in to his hosting, and WP admin).
Turns out, he had over 50 active plugins for literally EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. PIECE of functionality on his website. Furthermore, it was pretty clear that some plugin functionality overlapped, because... well, if you don’t know how to do something, install a plugin or seven to get it done, right?
Me: “So can I ask, what exactly is your budget? Just to give me ballpark as to how best move forward?”
Client: After going into how he’s already spent a lot of money on it already, “If we could we agree on below £200?”
Me: “...what, a month?”
Client: “No! In total. To make it right. Once it’s done it’s done, surely?!?!”
*a long silence*
Client: “So... what do you think?”
Me: “Burn it. Burn it all down”.8 -
So before I resign from my job tomorrow I thought I'd talk a little about a couple of things at work that I won't ever tell my boss in person but are generally some of the reasons I want to leave.
---------- warning long rant ----------
1. The CEO of the company finds out I only have my learner's and take the bus, goes on to belittle me about taking the bus.
(It may have been meant as a joke but I was offended, and we don't have any actual HR to complain to)
First off my real reason for not getting my restricted is mostly related to the fact public transportation does the job it needs to, I don't really complain unless the planning is fucked up (Adele concert rant lol) but typically I don't need a car. The other reason is because with a car I'd have to wait in traffic 1-2 hour each way. Also cars cost money which I don't have.
2. CEO buys himself and general manager brand new Range Rovers, you know those giant monstrosities box jeep looking things.
I hate this because I earn $31k, those things probably cost around $50 each (so typically 3 years worth of my wages).
When I had a talk about my contract at the 6 month mark, the general manager (my boss) said he wouldn't budge on my salary (yet they buy these jeeps)
3. I live way too far from work and because of it being Auckland and the current inflation for house prices, the rent prices have also increase, I wouldn't be able to get a house closer to home nor rent with minimum wage :(
4. Though it's not too necessary they mask that the app was made by me, whenever I see an email about the app to potential clients they refer to be as this app guy, and during their presentations they don't really include as part of the reason this app has been developed ( aside from my boss being the client, I came up with some interesting ideas to turn their paper form of the process they use into a digital one, I also did research for the specific topics, something I could have just asked for instead).
5. Old fashioned way of looking at so called "IT", they added fixing computers to my contract which I dread, especially since I'll be close to a deadline and then I get a call to fix someone's computer...
6. They don't seem to want to expand their "development team" to more than one person.
When I give my resignation I have to stay here for a month and I bet people will start to act differently around me, my likely my boss and the CEO. I think the other people that work will understand, given my situation.
I'm planning to for the last month to only do planning for the app they want me to work on, UML diagrams, use cases, Sprint planning (albiet, only developer here lol). Research on the third party libraries we need for the app and generally give the next guy the easiest path to getting the app done.
I want to do this because the Android and iOS app we're done via cowboy programming in a sense. (I don't have too much in terms of documentation and planning aside from a Microsoft planning website setup with to-do of which features are done for the iOS and paper Todo for the Android app.
Alright long rant over, I've got it all written down, glad I'll be leaving this place.51 -
Life Coach: "I want a website where I can charge $5,000 for 6 weeks of coaching for [weird life problem very few people have or think about].
Me: "That'll be $5,000."
Life Coach: "That's too expensive for a website."
Me (inner voice): "tHaT's ToO eXpEnSiVe FoR a WeBsItE."
Me (real voice): "Consider it not as a cost but as an investment necessary to obtaining your first customer. Once the first customer is realized, you've paid for the website and the future customers will make you profitable.4 -
I'm trying to sign up for insurance benefits at work.
Step 1: Trying to find the website link -- it's non-existent. I don't know where I found it, but I saved it in keepassxc so I wouldn't have to search again. Time wasted: 30 minutes.
Step 2: Trying to log in. Ostensibly, this uses my work account. It does not. Time wasted: 10 minutes.
Step 3: Creating an account. Username and Password requirements are stupid, and the page doesn't show all of them. The username must be /[A-Za-z0-9]{8,60}/. The maximum password length is VARCHAR(20), and must include upper/lower case, number, special symbol, etc. and cannot include "password", repeated charcters, your username, etc. There is also a (required!) hint with /[A-Za-z0-9 ]{8,60}/ validation. Want to type a sentence? better not use any punctuation!
I find it hilarious that both my username and password hint can be three times longer than my actual password -- and can contain the password. Such brilliant security.
My typical username is less than 8 characters. All of my typical password formats are >25 characters. Trying to figure out memorable credentials and figuring out the hidden complexity/validation requirements for all of these and the hint... Time wasted: 30 minutes.
Step 4: Post-login. The website, post-login, does not work in firefox. I assumed it was one of my many ad/tracker/header/etc. blockers, and systematically disabled every one of them. After enabling ad and tracker networks, more and more of the site loaded, but it always failed. After disabling bloody everything, the site still refused to work. Why? It was fetching deeply-nested markup, plus styling and javascript, encoded in xml, via api. And that xml wasn't valid xml (missing root element). The failure wasn't due to blocking a vitally-important ad or tracker (as apparently they're all vital and the site chain-loads them off one another before loading content), it's due to shoddy development and lack of testing. Matches the rest of the site perfectly. Anyway, I eventually managed to get the site to load in Safari, of all browsers, on a different computer. Time wasted: 40 minutes.
Step 5: Contact info. After getting the site to work, I clicked the [Enroll] button. "Please allow about 10 minutes to enroll," it says. I'm up to an hour and 50 minutes by now. The first thing it asks for is contact info, such as email, phone, address, etc. It gives me a warning next to phone, saying I'm not set up for notifications yet. I think that's great. I select "change" next to the email, and try to give it my work email. There are two "preferred" radio buttons, one next to "Work email," one next to "Personal email" -- but there is only one textbox. Fine, I select the "Work" preferred button, sign up for a faux-personal tutanota email for work, and type it in. The site complains that I selected "Work" but only entered a personal email. Seriously serious. Out of curiosity, I select the "change" next to the phone number, and see that it gives me four options (home, work, cell, personal?), but only one set of inputs -- next to personal. Yep. That's amazing. Time spent: 10 minutes.
Step 6: Ranting. I started going through the benefits, realized it would take an hour+ to add dependents, research the various options, pick which benefits I want, etc. I'm already up to two hours by now, so instead I decided to stop and rant about how ridiculous this entire thing is. While typing this up, the site (unsurprisingly) automatically logged me out. Fine, I'll just log in again... and get an error saying my credentials are invalid. Okay... I very carefully type them in again. error: invalid credentials. sajfkasdjf.
Step 7 is going to be: Try to figure out how to log in again. Ugh.
"Please allow about 10 minutes" it said. Where's that facepalm emoji?
But like, seriously. How does someone even build a website THIS bad?rant pages seriously load in 10+ seconds slower than wordpress too do i want insurance this badly? 10 trackers 4 ad networks elbonian devs website probably cost $1million or more too root gets insurance stop reading my tags and read the rant more bugs than you can shake a stick at the 54 steps to insanity more bugs than master of orion 313 -
!rant source: LinkedIn;
Yesterday I met with a potential client who wanted a website. I gave him a quote of X. He said, do this work for X/2 as I have lots of projects and I can keep you engaged for months.
If it was 2 years ago, I'd have happily accepted his proposal. But in the past 2 years I have learned this lesson hard way. Don't work for clients who don't pay well, because when a developer is not paid enough, the quality of work degrades. Hence the portfolio is degraded and so the future projects are also of low budget.
And before you know it, you will be surrounded by low paying clients who see you as a Skilled Labour.
Today, I don't negotiate, not even a single dollar. To justify my cost I make sure that no stones are left unturned while delivery.
It's better to work for 10 hours a week for 40$/hr then to work 40 hours a week for 10$/hr.3 -
I'm seriously considering never doing fixed rate projects for clients ever again. The conversation will likely go like this, though:
"How much to build my website?"
"$100/hour."
"Sorry, I don't think you heard me correctly. I asked how much to build the whole website."
"$150/hour"
"Wait, you changed the rate! Why won't you give me a fixed cost?"
"Why won't you pay me for my time?"
"Because I can get it done for a cheaper fixed cost somewhere else!"
"But how do you know that's actually cheaper?"
"What do you mean?"
"We pad fixed price projects precisely because we fear not being fully paid for our time."
"Oh."16 -
“Please develop my complicated eCommerce website. The cost should be somewhere between $0 and $100 because I can do it with a template in Wix or SquareSpace or hire a bot non-person from Fiverr to do it for me if you don’t honor the price I’m asking.”
—United States4 -
Any code I make for clients is under a strict license unless specified otherwise. It's a straight forward license pretty much stating that they can't sell it or claim it as their own. I've had a few clients break that license but one stood out. I had made a piece of software that cost her over $2,500 due to the amount of hours that went into it. The transaction went along smoothly so there was nothing to be alarmed about. She came back for more work about 6 months later and I decided to do some checking up on her to see how her business was going. Immediately smack bang on the home page was my software being sold for $30/month. Needless to say I was outraged. She said there was no talk of a license which I responded with pulling out the contract that she signed where it explained that signing the contract meant she was in agreement with the specified license. 2 months after this started, I'm being awarded any profits made from said software along with her closing down the website. As much of a bitch as she was, it wasn't worth my time trying to get more out of her.5
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I finally did it. I finally got rid of that client in a positive, respectful manner.
So basically, my dad has a freelance colleague. For a side project that person asked me to make him a website. My dad mentioned to said person that my sister's boyfriend does web design (he's trained to use autocad for designing the structure of furniture, nothing fancy just straight lines and upside down doors that fail after a while..
So my brother in law charged the guy 400 money for the design. I charged the guy 200 for the programming because my dad forced me to drop down my price to fit the budget because business relationship and he obviously couldn't let my sister's boyfriend not make more money than he deserves.
In the end after waiting on the design for weeks (I literally saw him do it in photoshop all in 2 layers on his laptop in half an hour) I had to rush the project because the due date was coming up. I already had most of it done but I had to redo a good part of the front-end to fit the design structure. I also had to re-do the design in photoshop to get the images and colors I needed, then cut it up into html. So realistically, my sister's boyfriend barely did anything.
Now the deal was that I'd develop the website and perform any updates/upgrades to it. I'd also host it on my webserver for a monthly fee. My sister's boyfriend was to handle any and all content related support.
At first it was all good, I only ever spoke with the guy when he needed a feature added and he paid me well for it. Overall the hit I took in initial development was paying off. As time went by, my sister's boyfriend started ignoring the guy's calls and the guy started calling me instead.
Now, he had this deal with my brother in law where he could charge his time at 35 money an hour. That's about 4 times minimum wage for not doing much.
Then I started to basically take over all support, but I was only allowed to charge 30 an hour. Pretty reasonable still and I wasn't too busy so it was all good.
As time went by I ended up getting asked to do more and more minimal changes. At some point I had done so many minimal changes I had to charge the guy about 2 hours extra that month and he went completely mental saying I can't just work for hours without telling him beforehand. We decided I had to discuss a price before any change. I charged my time on the phone with him twice after that and both times he bitched about me being expensive and once he even said he wanted to leave.
Now comes the fun part. A week ago he had an issue that was 100% support related. He tried calling my sister's boyfriend but the guy obviously didn't pick up. He called my dad about it, and my dad ended up calling my my sister's boyfriend. Now this guy is so slimy, he purposely didn't hang up the phone knowing my dad would use his cell and assume the other party would hang up because calls cost money. The guy heard my dad call my sister's boyfriend and heard him pick up immediately. He went completely mental saying how he wants both of us to always reply and call him back immediately.
This guy was always my lowest priority. He didn't really make me money and his calls and requests were annoying and unnecessary. Add to that that I specifically didn't want to handle support and was forced into it anyway, while all 'design' things (up to figuring out where and how to display a visitor counter) absolutely had to go to my sister's boyfriend..
But regardless of that, I generally replied to his emails within 10-20 minutes and rarely more than 25 hours.
My dad agreed (for us) that we now both had to reply to him within 24 hours. I was now stuck checking my voicemail every couple hours because my sister's boyfriend sucks at life.
During his rant he threatened to leave me, again. That was the point where I said fuck it.
For the past week I've been ignoring his calls. When he emails me I don't take more than 5 minutes replying. This morning I found an e-mail with 4 requests;
He wanted me to make a content-related change;
He wanted me to give him access to the site's Google analytics;
He wanted me to add a feature and write a guide on how to use it;
And fucking finally, he wanted a 'token to transfer his website'.
I promptly emailed him back saying I added his email a week ago and that he'd gotten an email from Google about it then, that I'd changed the content he wanted me to, a price for the last dev task and a token for his domain name, adding that its valid for 35 days and that his new host can contact me to receive a backup file of his website.
Sadly, I do have this on 10-minute dev job to do, but then I'm invoicing him all jobs I haven't invoiced yet and he can find another host willing to deal with his insanity.
The best part is I lose a webhosting client but I'm sure he'll still ask my sister's bitched parasitic boyfriend whenever he needs a photo resized and he'll still pay him 35 money for 2 minutes of work.
Fuck customers.6 -
Client: We need video chatting facility in our website
Me: Ok. But it will take more time and effort. It will cost you more too!
Client: Don't build from scratch. We use Skype in our company. Just embed in our website too!
Me: **facepalm**5 -
I hate Wordpress. I hate Wordpress. I hate Wordpress.
Wordpress can take a big shit on itself and crawl into a deep dark hole far away from all that is good.
Who even uses Wordpress? Bloggers? Come on, let’s be honest, they’re using more intuitive sites like weebly, wix, and square space. So WHAT is Wordpress for? I’ll tell you, it’s just to FUCKING TORTURE PEOPLE.
So, being the “techy guy” of the family, a relative contacts me asking for some help with their website because they need to install an SSL certificate but they don’t know how to. I tell them I’d gladly do it because, sure, they’re family and how long can it possibly take to install a certificate? I’ve done it before!
Well, I get to work and log into the sluggish Wordpress dashboard and try to use a plugin that would issue a LetsEncrypt certificate because they are free and just as good as any other SSL. But one plugin after the next I keep getting errors about how my hosting wouldn’t allow it.
So I contact GoDaddy (don’t get me fucking started) and ask them about the issue. The guy tells me it’s “policy” to only be able to use GoDaddy’s certificates. How much do they cost? Oh, how about $100 a year?! Fuck you.
I figured out the only way to escape this hell was to ask them to open an economy Linux hosting account with cPanel on GoDaddy (the site was formerly hosted on a “Managed Wordpress” account which is just bullshit for not wanting to give you any control over your own goddamn content). So now I have to deal with migrating the site.
GoDaddy representative tells me that it should only take 20 minutes for me to do this (I’ve already spent way too much time on this but whatever) so I go forward with the new account. I decide I should migrate the site by exporting a backup and manually placing everything on the new server. Doesn’t it end up taking an entire hour to back up a 200MB site because GoDaddy throttled the processing speed?!
So, it’s another hour later and I’ve installed all the databases and carried over all the files. At this point, I’m really at the end of my rope and can’t wait to install the certificate and be done with this fuckery.
I install the certificate and finally get ready to be on my way, but then I see it. A warning. A warning from my browser telling me the site is only partially secure. It turns out the certificate was properly installed but whoever initially made the site HARDCODED ALL THE LINKS to images, websites, and style sheets to be http instead of https.
I’m gonna explode.
I swear, I’m gonna fucking explode.
After a total of 5 hours of work, I finally get the site secure by using search and replace on every fucking file.
Wordpress can go suck a big one. Actually, Wordpress can go suck the largest fuckin one in existence and choke on it.
TL;DR I agree to install an SSL certificate but end up with much more work than I bargained.38 -
A previous co-worker (dev) bought a "foot mouse" he found on a Chinese website, then changed his keyboard's layout to match the "natural human cognitive ability" also bought a sleeping bag because he needed a "power nap" after lunch break he even asked our MD to buy him an ergonomic chair which would cost around 1200 USD ( of course our MD refused) then the worst of the worst, he had this habit of chewing his food loudly when he's eating something he likes.
One time our operations manager (she was pregnant XD) screamed at him from her desk " RAYAAAAN SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH I CAN HEAR IT FROM HERE DAMN IT"
He literally spilled some of the food he was chewing on his desk and I burst out laughing like crazy.
On the same day our MD told us to follow a new "no food in office" policy 😂😂😂
Sad story is that when he left the company I had to revert his PC to how it was including resetting the keyboard layout to default, remember his "foot mouse" ? Well he had to modify the mouse settings so all directions were inverted.
The first thing I said when I turned on his laptop was
FUCK YOU RAYAN!!3 -
*part rant part developers are the best people in the world*
years back a friend got a job at some non profit, as a program coordinator, and his first task was to "coordinate" the work on creating the new website for the organisation. current website they had was a monster built on some custom cms, 7 languages, 5 years of almost dayly content updates, etc. so he asked me if i would took the job of creating a new website on wordpress. i wasn t really keen on doing it, but he is a good friend so i said ok. i wrote down the SOW, which clearly stated that i will not be responsible for migrating the old content to the new website. i had experience working with non it clients, and made sure everyone understood the SOW before the contract was signed. everyone was ok with it. after three weeks my job was done, all milestones and requirenments were met. peechy! and then all hell breaks loose when the president of the organisation (the most evil person i ve met in my life) told my friend that she expects me to migrate the content as well. he tried explaining her that that was not agreed, that it will cost extra, etc. but she didn t want to hear any of that. despite the fact that she was a part of the entire SOW creation process, because she is a micro managing bitch. in any other situation i wouldn t budge, because we have the contract and i kept all the paper trail, but since my friends job was on the line i agreed to do it. my SQL knowldge at the time, and even now, was very rudimentary, the db organisation of their cms was confusing as fuck... so i took two days of searching tutorials and SO threads and was doing ok, until i got to a problem i couldn t solve on my own. i posted the issue on SO and some guy asked for some clarifications, and we went back and forth, and decided to move to chat. while chatting with him i realised that there was not a chance for me to do all the work in few days without a lot of errors so i offered him to do it for a fee. he agreed. i asked him for his rate, he said if this is a community work i will do it for free, but if it is commercial i will charge the standard rate, 50$/hr. i told him it was commercial, and agreed to his rate. i asked him if he needed an advance payment, he said no need, you ll pay me when the job is done. i sent him the db dumps, after two days he sent me the csv, i checked it, all was good and wired him the money.
now compare this work relatioship with the relatioship with that bitch from the non profit.
* we met online, on a semi-anonymous forum, this guys profile was empty
* he trusted me enough to say that he would do it for free if i wasn t payed either
* i wasn t an asshole to take advantage of that trust
* he did the work without the advance payment
* i payed him the moment i verified the work
faith in humanity restored3 -
So I used to do some freelancing in web development last year, nothing too fancy just some simple PHP websites. Comes the worst meeting in my life. So I am from India and we have a lot of long lasting business here being passed on over generations. TL;DR the guy was the owner of a very old business which was actually very huge and the guy was educated too, so I assumed that he'll be sensible as compared to other people.
The meeting was in an expensive cafe and he paid for it, he even told me upfront that meeting is on him. Great, right? So we sit down, order some coffee and then start discussing what he needed.
The guy needed an ecommerce website built with backend and logistics system integrated. We discussed possible designs for the website and stuff too and so far the deal looked promising to both of us.
I explained him the cost estimate and told him that I would email him the final quote from myself once we discussed server cost and shit.
So now comes the bargaining part where he asked me to give him server and domain for free.
At this point, I suspected that he didn't know that servers and domains are not something that you make. You have to purchase and renew them periodically.
So I told that guy that he didn't understand the cost estimation and explained to him that X is the cost of making this fucking thing and Y is its monthly maintenance cost, if he wanted annually could be done too. And this Y did not include server and domain costing.
Now came the fucking tide, the guy straight up turned to his shit and told me I am lying and trying to con him. So I gently asked him if he had ever gotten any website made. To which, he said No, but he knows how the costing works.
I was like "Bitch?". So I calmly tried to explain that that's not how websites are done, delivered and maintained.
He didn't seemed to be understanding and kept on fucking repeating that he knows his shit and blah blah.
At this point, I was like "Okay. Fuck this dude then. I can find another project. " and then I told him that he'll need to find someone according to his needs.
Interestingly enough, the guy called someone and then walked out of the cafe while talking on phone. I waited for 5 minutes and he didn't come back so I decided I would pay for my coffee and leave. Turns out the guy had paid his bill before my arrival and ditched me with the excuse of the call.
But oh well, I think working with such an idiot would have been much worse than paying for that coffee.4 -
Favorite Client: "The website you built and have been operating for us for 3 years now sucks."
Me: "But you made more money this year than the last two years combined!"
FC: "Yeah, but if it didn't suck so bad it would've made a lot more. And it was hard to manage our event ticketing and updating content."
Me: "It was hard because you've never had events sell out before. And you added one new person and replaced another at the worst possible time to get them trained on how to manage things."
FC: "Yeah. So now we are putting the site up for bidding to rebuild it from scratch for these new realities. Obviously you'll have the advantage over other agencies because of how well you know our organization and how things operate. How much do you think it'll cost?"
Me: https://youtu.be/l91ISfcuzDw3 -
Best client ever:
Yesterday I meet my new client. He need portfolio website for his logistics business.
So I meet him and explain my previous experience in website development.
After 1hour he gave me advance 50% of total cost.1 -
few years back there was a corruption scandal in my country, serbia. one of the ministries paid around 25,000 euros for a website to a company that was founded few weeks before the open call. for comparrison sake average pay at the time was around 300 euros. the website it self didn t have any special features, just publishing contenet. wordpress would do the job. on a press confference, trying to defend the cost, spokesperson of the ministry said that the website was made in "cms programming language".
it community lost it! mems started immediatelly, "i am learning cms language so i could charge 25.000 per project". and then one guy got intrigued, found the login page, and typed:
username: admin
password: 12345
and got in!!!!
i kid you not!
he posted featured news on the homepage, saying hey guys your credentials probably shouldn t be admin/12345. twitter was on fire, everyone started loging in and posting shit.
and the crasiest part is that this guy was arrested and charged for cyber-crime!4 -
Like most people I needed some extra cash during uni, so I proceeded to learn CSS + Photoshop (yeah, I know). Followed by PHP and WordPress.
It can be a very shitty platform until you realize that you can stop combining plug-ins from all over the place with dubious code quality and roll your own.
Anyhow I kept at it until I was able to join a niche company doing a quite popular caching plug-in for WP (yeah, W3 Total) when I suddenly became *very* interested in anything and everything performance.
This landed me a very cozy consulting gig in the Nordics - they were using WP for an elephant-traffic website and had run into a myriad of perf issues.
Fixing them and breaking the monolith awarded me with skills in nodejs, linux, asynchronous caching among others.
I was soon in charge with managing the dev boxes for the entire team, and when the main operations dude left, I was promoted to owning the entire platform. (!) Tinkering with Linux for most of my life really came in handy here. (remember Debian potato?)
Used saltstack + aws cloudformation to achieve full parity between all environments. Learned myself some python and all various tips and tricks which in the end amounted to 90% reduction in time-to-first-byte and considerable cost savings.
By the end of the 2yr contract I had turned myself into a fullstack systems engineer and never looked back.
Lawyers not getting along resulted in us having to abandon NewRelic, so I got to learn and deploy the ELK stack as a homegrown replacement, which was super-fun.
Now I work in the engineering effectiveness department of a Swedish fintech unicorn where all languages under the Sun are an option (tho we prefer Python), so the tech stack is unlimited. Infinite tools and technologies, but with strong governing principles and with performance always in mind so as to pick the right tool for the job.
It's like that childhood feeling when you've just dumped a ton of Lego on the floor and are about to build something massive.
I guess the morale here is however disappointed you feel by your current stack - don't. Always strive to make things better, faster, more decoupled, easier to test, etc. and always challenge yourself to go outside the comfort zone.6 -
I'm a freelance web developer and I normally work on small to medium sized websites, 9 out 10 times based on WordPress and 10 out 10 times with a limited budget.
8 out of 10 times the sites content will be updated by someone with at best casual knowledge in website management.
Say what you will about WP but it's my bread and butter and it works great for just these kinds of websites; where the cost is a dealbreaker and the end product should be as user friendly as a standard word processor.
No, you probably wouldn't build a control panel for the next space shuttle or an online bank in WordPress, but I rarely need to concern myself with those kinds of projects so that really doesn't affect me.
Pretty much the same reason I have a Kia car even though I wouldn't win a Formula 1 race with it.
I for one am grateful that there's an open source tool available to my clients that more than adequately meets their needs (that's also fun to work with and build custom solutions on for me as a developer).7 -
My bosses...
Honestly, I give them shit over here for their errors, their actions and the fact that they don't know what's going on. But as they've been my first programming job, they've taught me a hell of a lot.
I started my internship about a year ago at my current job, and it would last for 4 months.
I was timid, did as I was told and didn't discuss orders.
Within a week, I started voicing my opinion whenever it was asked, and I was heard, and if it gave insight, the bosses would listen to me and we'd change the product.
After two weeks, one of the bosses wanted to show me a comparable website on my pc so I could get some idea of what the bosses meant when trying to explain their idea, and after five minutes of typing on the shitty keyboard I had (shittiest in the whole office), he asked me why I didn't complain earlier. Truth was, I was afraid, he was the boss and I was just merely an employee at his company. Who was I to criticize his office materials??
He told me to follow him, we got into his car and drove off to a shopping mall, went into the tech store and he literally told me to pick whatever keyboard suited me best.
A few weeks ago, we got active noise canceling headphones, these things cost a hell of a lot of money!
My senior and my bosses have taught me that I am still an individual, still a part of the team, of the company, and of the machine, if I can't do my work, the rest will suffer.
They taught me that I am valuable, that I am not just another employee and that I need to speak up for my needs, wants and opinions.
Don't forget how valuable you are guys and gals :)8 -
Client: we want a website with so much functionally and interactivity.
Me: no problem
Client: what's the cost?
Me: xyz
Client:oh! I only need a basic website, with minimal interactivity1 -
I don't understand why people are making a fuss about Facebook.
It's free to use, the amount of users kept increasing (thus the cost of maintenance) yet the company kept getting bigger and bigger. Obviously they're not making all their money off the advertisements on Facebook's own website.
So why are people so surprised that they're "selling" user information?
This is really funny to me. Especially the media joining in saying that it makes all your information available to everybody when they're actually talking about the fact that the majority of Facebook users have their profile set to public and they can be easily found with a simple Google search.
People are so fucking hypocritical it makes me want to puke. If you don't want anybody to know what you posted, just don't fucking post it on a SOCIAL MEDIA in the first place.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that facebook is all flowers and love, they clearly didn't handle this situation well. They could have done something about this whole situation when it started instead of waiting for things to blow out of proportion.
However, people are just being assholes now. I highly doubt that they're reading all chats nor are they sending it over, they're probably just sending out some words you mention often so that it is pertinent for advertisers (ex. If you use the word computer next to buy, then maybe that triggers something). I could talk extensively about it but I'm way too lazy, the point is, they most likely aren't sending the nudes you sent to advertisers because that does not provide any benefits.
If you don't like Facebook, don't fucking use it. Delete your account and shut the fuck up. When you screw up in real life, there's no takesies backsies, why the fuck do people think it doesn't apply online? The government gathers up quite a lot of information on you yet I don't see you crying your eyes out.
Why the fuck do you care so much if an advertisement is tailored to specifically? Yeah, you talked about dildos and now you see dildo ads from Amazon, not happy? Just download adblock and shut up. If you're gullible and the moment you see an ad about single women in your area you click on the ad because you want to get laid right now, that's your problem.
Don't want people knowing about some aspects of your private life? Don't share it online.
Stop acting like people are any better at keeping secrets, I'm sure you had some people leak your secrets at least once, yet I doubt you sued them and you brought them to court.
===========
I'm sorry about this, it's just that Facebook is all over the news and I'm getting sick of it.
Also, I hate facebook, I'm not necessarily defending it, I'm more pissed at the medias for blowing this situation out of proportion.22 -
In India a standard WordPress website with 10 pages and blog functionality would cost you as little as Rs. 2,000-5,000! That's $314-$784
And a few "agencies" do make a decent product for the amount
But in general the product is not maintainable at all. I once handled the upgradation of a client and her referrals has been giving me projects ever since!12 -
As a developer, I constantly feel like I'm lagging behind.
Long rant incoming.
Whenever I join a new company or team, I always feel like I'm the worst developer there. No matter how much studying I do, it never seems to be enough.
Feeling inadequate is nothing new for me, I've been struggling with a severe inferiority complex for most of my life. But starting a career as a developer launched that shit into overdrive.
About 10 years ago, I started my college education as a developer. At first things were fine, I felt equal to my peers. It lasted about a day or two, until I saw a guy working on a website in notepad. Nothing too special of course, but back then as a guy whose scripting experience did not go much farther than modifying some .ini files, it blew my mind. It went downhill from there.
What followed were several stressful, yet strangely enjoyable, years in college where I constantly felt like I was lagging behind, even though my grades were acceptable. On top of college stress, I had a number of setbacks, including the fallout of divorcing parents, childhood pets, family and friends dying, little to no money coming in and my mother being in a coma for a few weeks. She's fine now, thankfully.
Through hard work, a bit of luck, and a girlfriend who helped me to study, I managed to graduate college in 2012 and found a starter job as an Asp.Net developer.
My knowledge on the topic was limited, but it was a good learning experience, I had a good mentor and some great colleagues. To teach myself, I launched a programming tutorial channel. All in all, life was good. I had a steady income, a relationship that was already going for a few years, some good friends and I was learning a lot.
Then, 3 months in, I got diagnosed with cancer.
This ruined pretty much everything I had built up so far. I spend the next 6 months in a hospital, going through very rough chemo.
When I got back to working again, my previous Asp.Net position had been (understandably) given to another colleague. While I was grateful to the company that I could come back after such a long absence, the only position available was that of a junior database manager. Not something I studied for and not something I wanted to do each day neither.
Because I was grateful for the company's support, I kept working there for another 12 - 18 months. It didn't go well. The number of times I was able to do C# jobs can be counted on both hands, while new hires got the assignments, I regularly begged my PM for.
On top of that, the stress and anxiety that going through cancer brings comes AFTER the treatment. During the treatment, the only important things were surviving and spending my potentially last days as best as I could. Those months working was spent mostly living in fear and having to come to terms with the fact that my own body tried to kill me. It caused me severe anger issues which in time cost me my relationship and some friendships.
Keeping up to date was hard in these times. I was not honing my developer skills and studying was not something I'd regularly do. 'Why spend all this time working if tomorrow the cancer might come back?'
After much soul-searching, I quit that job and pursued a career in consultancy. At first things went well. There was not a lot to do so I could do a lot of self-study. A month went by like that. Then another. Then about 4 months into the new job, still no work was there to be done. My motivation quickly dwindled.
To recuperate the costs, the company had me do shit jobs which had little to nothing to do with coding like creating labels or writing blogs. Zero coding experience required. Although I was getting a lot of self-study done, my amount of field experience remained pretty much zip.
My prayers asking for work must have been heard because suddenly the sales department started finding clients for me. Unfortunately, as salespeople do, they looked only at my theoretical years of experience, most of which were spent in a hospital or not doing .Net related tasks.
Ka-ching. Here's a developer with four years of experience. Have fun.
Those jobs never went well. My lack of experience was always an issue, no matter how many times I told the salespeople not to exaggerate my experience. In the end, I ended up resigning there too.
After all the issues a consultancy job brings, I went out to find a job I actually wanted to do. I found a .Net job in an area little traffic. I even warned them during my intake that my experience was limited, and I did my very best every day that I worked here.
It didn't help. I still feel like the worst developer on the team, even superseded by someone who took photography in college. Now on Monday, they want me to come in earlier for a talk.
Should I just quit being a developer? I really want to make this work, but it seems like every turn I take, every choice I make, stuff just won't improve. Any suggestions on how I can get out of this psychological hell?6 -
Clients wants a complete reworked of their e-commerce website - sure will cost X amount.
It needs to be done before black Friday - nope6 -
Chrome, Firefox, and yes even you Opera, Falkon, Midori and Luakit. We need to talk, and all readers should grab a seat and prepare for some reality checks when their favorite web browsers are in this list.
I've tried literally all of them, in search for a lightweight (read: not ridiculously bloated) web browser. None of them fit the bill.
Yes Midori, you get a couple of bonus points for being the most lightweight. Luakit however.. as much as I like vim in my terminal, I do not want it in a graphical application. Not to mention that just like all the others you just use webkit2gtk, and therefore are just as bloated as all the others. Lightweight my ass! But programmable with Lua, woo! Not like Selenium, Chrome headless, ... does that for any browser. And that's it for the unique features as far as I'm concerned. One is slow, single-threaded and lightweight-ish (Midori) and another has vim keybindings in an application that shouldn't (Luakit).
Pretty much all of them use webkit2gtk as their engine, and pretty much all of them launch a separate process for each tab. People say this is more secure, but I have serious doubts about that. You're still running all these processes as the same user, and they all have full access to the X server they run under (this is also a criticism against user separation on a single X session in general). The only thing it protects against is a website crashing the browser, where only that tab and its process would go down. Which.. you know.. should a webpage even be able to do that?
But what annoys me the most is the sheer amount of memory that all of these take. With all due respect all of you browsers, I am not quite prepared to give 8 fucking gigabytes - half the memory in this whole box! - just for a dozen or so tabs. I shouldn't have to move my web browser to another lesser used 16GB box, just to prevent this one from going into fucking swap from a dozen tabs. And before someone has a go at the add-ons, there's 4 installed and that's it. None of them are even close to this complete and utter memory clusterfuck. It's the process separation. Each process consumes half a GB of memory, and there's around a dozen of them in a usual browsing session. THAT is the real problem. And I want to get rid of it.
Browsers are at their pinnacle of fucked up in my opinion, literally to the point where I'm seriously considering elinks. Being a sysadmin, I already live my daily life in terminals anyway. As such I also do have resources. But because of that I also associate every process with its cost to run it, in terms of resources required. Web browsers are easily at the top of the list.
I want to put 8GB into perspective. You can store nearly 2 entire DVD movies in that memory. However media players used to play them (such as SMPlayer) obviously don't do that. They use 60-80MB on average to play the whole movie. They also require far less processing power than YouTube in a web browser does, even when you download that exact same video with youtube-dl (either streamed within the media player or externally). That is what an application should be.
Let's talk a bit about these "complicated" websites as well. I hate to break it to you framework web devs, but you're a dime a dozen. The competition is high between web devs for that exact reason. And websites are not complicated. The document itself is plain old HTML, yes even if your framework converts to it in the background. That's the skeleton of your document, where I would draw a parallel with documents in office suites that are more or less written in XML. CSS.. oh yes, markup. Embolden that shit, yes please! And JavaScript.. oh yes, that pile of shit that's been designed in half a day, and has a framework called fucking isEven (which does exactly what it says on the tin, modulo 2 be damned). Fancy some macros in your text editor? Yes, same shit, different pile.
Imagine your text editor being as bloated as a web browser. Imagine it being prone to crashing tabs like a web browser. Imagine it being so ridiculously slow to get anything done in your productivity suite. But it's just the usual with web browsers, isn't it? Maybe Gopher wasn't such a bad idea after all... Oh and give me another update where I have to restart the browser when I commit the heinous act of opening another tab, just because you had to update your fucking CA certs again. Yes please!19 -
I work for a web agency.
Over the last 18 months a company asked us about 5 different quotes for rather minimal changes to their website.
While being minimal changes, estimating costs for them still requires several hours of work for research, meetings, correspondance and writing the damn things. They never even gave us a response (neither positive nor negative), except once where they told us that they wouldn't pay for project management because their instructions are so clear that PM isn't necessary.
As a response to the last one, after several months, they send us a 10 pages long pdf with requirements for a new website (or a "restyle" like they call it, even if it has absolutely nothing in common with the current one).
We inform them that we can't permit ourselves to continue studying new solutions for free and therefore tell them that a detailed offer would cost them something like 300$, and that amount would then be discounted from the eventually accepted job. We also roughly estimate a price range of about 15k - 20k for the new website.
We get an email back, from the CEO (until now it was a secretary), with essentially 3 arguments written in condescending form:
1. he brags about his revenue being over 9 billion $$$ a year, and that being a part of a global holding for which "communication is essential" (sic.) means that they need to coordinate and "can't simply accept an offer" [even if it's 400$, for specific change exactly requested by them, I guess...]
2. 15k is too much [... for the website representing this 9 billion dollar holding on the internet, for which the requirements are written in the 10 pages long pdf]
3. He asks for a meeting
We accept the meeting, we go to their office.
When we arrive there, the secretary informs us that the CEO will not participate. So we talk the her and the head of the "Communication Dept" in videoconference.
I explain them that if the sum, which we thought would be appropriate (~15 - 20k), is too high, the Pareto principle would allow us to, theoretically, achieve about 80% of the features and quality for about 20% of the cost. Their genuine response is:
"So your estimate was wrong! You can do it for much less!".
I try to explain them that the most money in a project goes into "attention to detail".
The "Communication Dept." person, who is "doing this job since too much time" (sic.), refuses to believe and insists that "details" don't exist on the web.
I tell her: "In any kind of work, the more effort you put into something, the better it tends to get, with diminishing returns".
She insists: "I don't understand this".
So now I'm here, doing the 6th offer, free of charge, for a 5k website, for a company that generates 9kkk revenue each year, trying to define a "Definition of Done" that works out.
FML I guess.
Sorry for the long post.7 -
I wrote a node + vue web app that consumes bing api and lets you block specific hosts with a click, and I have some thoughts I need to post somewhere.
My main motivation for this it is that the search results I've been getting with the big search engines are lacking a lot of quality. The SEO situation right now is very complex but the bottom line is that there is a lot of white hat SEO abuse.
Commercial companies are fucking up the internet very hard. Search results have become way too profit oriented thus unneutral. Personal blogs are becoming very rare. Information is losing quality and sites are losing identity. The internet is consollidating.
So, I decided to write something to help me give this situation the middle finger.
I wrote this because I consider the ability to block specific sites a basic universal right. If you were ripped off by a website or you just don't like it, then you should be able to block said site from your search results. It's not rocket science.
Google used to have this feature integrated but they removed it in 2013. They also had an extension that did this client side, but they removed it in 2018 too. We're years past the time where Google forgot their "Don't be evil" motto.
AFAIK, the only search engine on earth that lets you block sites is millionshort.com, but if you block too many sites, the performance degrades. And the company that runs it is a for profit too.
There is a third party extension that blocks sites called uBlacklist. The problem is that it only works on google. I wrote my app so as to escape google's tracking clutches, ads and their annoying products showing up in between my results.
But aside uBlacklist does the same thing as my app, including the limitation that this isn't an actual search engine, it's just filtering search results after they are generated.
This is far from ideal because filter results before the results are generated would be much more preferred.
But developing a search engine is prohibitively expensive to both index and rank pages for a single person. Which is sad, but can't do much about it.
I'm also thinking of implementing the ability promote certain sites, the opposite to blocking, so these promoted sites would get more priority within the results.
I guess I would have to move the promoted sites between all pages I fetched to the first page/s, but client side.
But this is suboptimal compared to having actual access to the rank algorithm, where you could promote sites in a smarter way, but again, I can't build a search engine by myself.
I'm using mongo to cache the results, so with a click of a button I can retrieve the results of a previous query without hitting bing. So far a couple of queries don't seem to bring much performance or space issues.
On using bing: bing is basically the only realiable API option I could find that was hobby cost worthy. Most microsoft products are usually my last choice.
Bing is giving me a 7 day free trial of their search API until I register a CC. They offer a free tier, but I'm not sure if that's only for these 7 days. Otherwise, I'm gonna need to pay like 5$.
Paying or not, having to use a CC to use this software I wrote sucks balls.
So far the usage of this app has resulted in me becoming more critical of sites and finding sites of better quality. I think overall it helps me to become a better programmer, all the while having better protection of my privacy.
One not upside is that I'm the only one curating myself, whereas I could benefit from other people that I trust own block/promote lists.
I will git push it somewhere at some point, but it does require some more work:
I would want to add a docker-compose script to make it easy to start, and I didn't write any tests unfortunately (I did use eslint for both apps, though).
The performance is not excellent (the app has not experienced blocks so far, but it does make the coolers spin after a bit) because the algorithms I wrote were very POC.
But it took me some time to write it, and I need to catch some breath.
There are other more open efforts that seem to be more ethical, but they are usually hard to use or just incomplete.
commoncrawl.org is a free index of the web. one problem I found is that it doesn't seem to index everything (for example, it doesn't seem to index the blog of a friend I know that has been writing for years and is indexed by google).
it also requires knowledge on reading warc files, which will surely require some time investment to learn.
it also seems kinda slow for responses,
it is also generated only once a month, and I would still have little idea on how to implement a pagerank algorithm, let alone code it.4 -
"I found this tool that we should use because I'm a manager and its simple enough that my tiny little manager brain could set it up!"
Oh wow good for you, Mr. Manager! And what, praytell, does the tool require?
"All proprietary and cost-ineffecient products: MSSQL Server and Windows IIS! What do you mean we have to get the data out in order for it to be scalable? Look at it! I set up a website by clicking on an EXE i downloaded from github!"
Amazing, Mr. Manager. So you violated our security practices AND want to pocket even MORE of our budget?
Kindly fuck right off and start suggesting things instead of making people embarrass you into stoping your fight for your tool (has happened on more than one occassion).3 -
Honzo, can we make this website responzive?
Looking ito code:
position:absolute; position:absolute; position:absolute; position:absolute; position:absolute; position:absolute; position:absolute; position:absolute;
Response: Sure.
Client: Cost?
Me: Much.4 -
I dont know what to feel anymore.
Got hired directly without an interview into 'Data-analytics' department in fortune 500 company. This is my first job. Got hired because this company want start a website that cost millions.
Even though I am junior, I can see that this company has no idea about software development at all. No git server, no code review, no quality assurance and no proper workflow. No senior developer to guide us (junior dev) too.
There is one 'senior' consultant that work on automation project here but he just focus on his work and don't help us directly too.
The contract is about 1 year. Still got 11 months to go :/4 -
Email from Client:
Hi, we'd like this and that done to our website. I know you aren't finished building it yet but I believe we can change what we agreed upon.
Me:
Let me see what I can do, I'll try squeeze in some of those changes but the bigger ones I'll have to check with the boss.
Boss:
Yes, we can do those changes at an additional cost, quote them $1000 (example)
Me to client:
Hi there, yes we can do that but we have to charge $1000 for those additional changes that weren't initially agreed upon, and we'll need an extra week on the deadline.
Client:
Oh no no no... I know how this works. If I wanted to do this myself I would. You will do the work and get it finished in time, and I will only pay you $200 for it. I don't like being scolded for money.
Me and Boss: Yeah.... this isn't working out. Please find a new company to deal with.
Conclusion, this client was always giving us problems and telling us how we should be charging and how we should be doing our jobs. It was so satisfying to just them let go.4 -
Customer: I need a one page website, which must have an administration panel , so I can change and add new sections. I will also have designed a unique logo and a unique web design. I think you can do it in 5-10 hours , so I'll give you $ 50 and $ 100
Me: ehmmm... I need more time if it is to be unique , and one hour cost of $ 5- $ 10 is not enough.
Customer: fuck it. I do it my self. it can not be that hard , and I think it's too expensive.
Me:5 -
Hi! I'm new in freelancing. I've created a program that scrapes data from a website, parses it, runs DB queries, and emails the prepared data to the customer for whom I've created this program. The whole program is written in PHP and uses a MySQL table. There's almost no front-end, it's just like an automated background process that runs with a cron job. I've bought and set up a domain and hosting for them (my cutomer paid it all). I got the core part of the program running after ~2 days, and it took me ~a week to complete the project including adding features and the testing phase. Now, I'd like to know, how much does this kind of project cost? The business operates in Silicon Valley.question php scraping webdevelopment scraper cost webdev freelancing price cost of website siliconvalley silicon valley10
-
The whois service for the legacy top-level domain for Germany (.de) is one of the most fucked up things on the internet.
For years now they've restricted the whois service to notice you about their website information service (https://denic.de/en, you run a search and get information about the domain) which already cost you an unnecessary amount of time if you simply want to lookup something.
A while back they changed it so that you need to state whether you want to look it up fotr informative purposes or business purposes, then they changed it so that you need to supply a reason in a text box.
The new (GDPR) way is that you only get the connectivity status ("connect", "free") via whois and the nameservers on the website (without supplying a reason, which actually is an improvement). Everything this either is for executive authorities or the domain owner (by entering their mail address or zip code).
Germany - the land of "We can opt out of any standard because we can and since theaws changed we can also behave like dickbutts".
Adding the GDPR now only fed the trolls even more.7 -
Client: "We need a quote for a website build."
Me: "OK. What kind of website?"
Client: "We are working on a brief now, but we need a cost ASAP."
Me: "Alright. It should cost between $X and $Y. Dependent on the brief."
Client: "We can't go back with a range. We need a set price."
Me: "Well, give me a solid Functional Specification, and I'll give you a price based on that."
Client gave me a Func Spec. I gave them a price. Then they gave me change after change after change...
But they refused to pay more than the initial fixed price. By the end of it, I would have been better off working at McDonalds.4 -
Ok I know there have been a lot of similar rants to this one, but now I have to write one by myself!
Fuck freelancer.com or whatever that shit is called. I once started using it when I was in school because I thought it was a convenient way to earn money on the side without fixed work times, so I could adjust to how much time I have. But soon I realized that wouldn't happen. It is easy for me to make a website, I have written some css templates from scratch and can apply them, but when will these cocksucking assholes learn that $25 for a website is not only a joke, but a fucking insult? Or a logo for 4? In his video on fiverr, pewdiepie has a point on the thing where he said that you can shit out a logo in 2min and make an easy 4 to 5 bucks, but I like doing things more properly and I bet those fuckers will give you shit for not designing the perfect logo. I once accepted a job where I ended up busting my ass 3 days log for $100 and I thought that was the normal mess at the beginning, before you have former customers rate your profile, but I got perfect ratings and still didn't get or even find any proper jobs. Most are complete shit, like write a fucking book for me or design a fucking Website or pull a logo out of your ass, but some projects are just rediculous. I once saw a project where they wanted some engineer to do the layout for the pipes in a huge processing plant. Yeah, because engineers are so poor and unemployed, even when they are entrepreneurs they dont go to those shity sites. Since I am actually qualified for such a job, I applied just to see if I could land a job that is actually not shitty, but of course it turned out the person had no idea what he was talking about. It is basically a platform where people can pay you in exposure. And the absolutely fucking worst thing about it is that they get away with it. There are always a ton of people, mostly from countries where cost of life is significantly lower, who flood the freelance market with cheap, presumably horrible logos, mobile apps, websites, texts and apparently pipeline layouts. I haven't found a similar platform but where there are only high quality biddings. But that is something that I would love to use.
Sorry for long rant, no potato.1 -
Look, I get it. Wordpress sucks. It’s bloated. It’s slow. It’s not elegant. It’s a nightmare to debug and code for. The plugin ecosystem is an insecure, confusing mess of outdatedness and issues.
We can all agree that in a perfect world all power to determine everything about a website, from the code to the content, would be in our power as developers. But we don’t live in a perfect world. People want convenience, even at the cost of performance and security, and they will inevitably resent technologists who refuse to give it to them. We do ourselves and our customers a disservice when we only do what we feel is in our own best interests or preferences and not what will help them with their realities.
Yes, it sucks. Yes, it’s a pain. Yes, it’s in demand and there’s nothing any of us can do to change that.
And that’s all I have to say about that.5 -
I once went to a client to get a brief for a website (the twat can't be bothered to write it, so he gets me to do it). I wrote all the details down and fired as many questions as I could. When I got back I wrote up the notes into a brief and sent it back to check before I costed it. He said it was spot on, so I sent an estimate. A few days later he must have shown it to another director, they both call me on speaker phone. Them: Will it do this, will it do that? Me: "It" doesn't exist, if you want to add some requirements then write or extend the brief and I will re-cost it.
They ignored that and rang a little later. Them: We have been discussing it, will it do .... and will it do.... Me: I repeated what I had said earlier, but my tone of voice had changed to reflect my annoyance. I never heard from these pathetic twats again. Moral: I always do background checks on a company, as well as accounts and financials check it's good to tap in to your network of colleagues, designers, freelancers. It can set the alarm bells going long before you commit any time. -
Client: I want a fixed timescale and cost on this project.
Me: OK, what do you need?
Client: We need to integrate our website with our CRM system, which we're in the middle of rebuilding and don't know what data will be available from it. We also want sophisticated Google maps integration, online sale, digital agreement signing and a customer login section that works as a social network for our clients. And we want it in six months time. And an app. And we want you to pitch for free with some initial design concepts. And we want details of you project management strategy.
Me: Ok... Do you know what you want your app to do?
Client: Yes, it's an app! So how much will this cost me?
Me: D':2 -
I think a lot of pissed off devs are working at companies that see them as cost centres. Happy devs are at companies that see them as profit centres.
Like, a cereal company may have a tech team for their website and ordering and whatever, but having the best website isn't going to make them more money. Selling more cereal is.
If a company sells video processing software, having the best software is going to make them money. Tech is a profit centre.
So, anyway, I'm looking for a new job. Any rec for profit centre tech teams?2 -
Here is a little story about why I do not like to have to purchase developer tools and libraries..
Long story short it has taken at least 10 people more than 3 months to purchase two licenses of this component library which we still do not yet have licenses for.
It all starts with this guy who works here and has the job title 'solution architect'. He saw an ad on a website about some html component library. Then he asks me and the other developer here to look at it. He is super excited saying things like if we save only x days of time the cost is nothing in comparison to developer time..
The other developer and I both spend a few days reading the docs and trying some sample code. It offers some things we can use but I suggest not bothering with it.
Despite my suggestion he goes to the technical manager and they write up a business case. After about a month our receptionist cc me on an email chain from the it commercial manager who is asking for the licensing information so they can add the component creator as a vendor in the purchasing system. I send them a link to the component website which lists all that.
Jump forward two more months to last week and I got a spam email from the component company saying they have some new version out. I am wondering what has happened so I ask our receptionist she says it is with accounts payable and waiting payment - but it is marked urgent and she will find out.
Today I am cc in an email saying they have paid for it two weeks ago. So where is the license info? Nobody knows.1 -
Just set up my own IoT device for free thanks to the guys at Losant.
I met them at codestock a couple years ago. They were running a workshop with some Adafruit boards and at the time I had never seen anything like Arduinos before. I was fascinated. So I walked up and asked about it. They said they sold the chips just to demo their IoT stuff. I said I'd buy one. I then waited like 40 minutes for them to get their card reader working. They gave up and handed it to me, gratis. That started my dive into electronics from programming.
Few years later, I needed a remote temperature sensor to make sure a certain unattended appliance never got below freezing. I suddenly remembered that kit (now buried under my heaping stash of electronics), followed the tutorials, and had the exact thing I needed up and running in like a few hours, with all the bells and whistles I could want. And for free.
The icing on the cake here? I went on their website to look at a kit to replace it. I found one with even more goodies in it, and the entire kit cost less than the cost to go to adafruit and buy just the board alone.
Thanks Losant for being awesome. If you wanna do IoT anything, look em up. -
During my time at university my friend got me a job, he said. He explained there was someone who was a member of some student club where they needed a website. Me and this person met and discussed the scope of the project, "nothing major but it will take some time" I thought to myself.
I gave her a rough estimation and told her my rate (extremely cheap). She looked at me and said "I was thinking a case of beer would be enough?".
We were both students, but seriously?? I almost contacted a proper company to give them the details just to get a real cost estimation to shove it in her snug fucking face! -
Friend: What do you know about Wordpress?
Me: Why???
Friend: My assistant made changes to my organization’s website and now it’s messed up. The page formatting is off.
Me: Wordpress has a version history for some things. Maybe go back to an earlier point in time?
Friend: I think she changed something that the vendor told us not to touch.
Me: Like a custom plugin that your website vendor made?
Friend: Maybe…
Me: Why is your assistant even touching things like that?
Friend: I really don’t want to contact the vendor because I don’t think they’re very good with website development. And I have no idea what this would cost.
Me: You might have to bite the bullet on the cost. And maybe fire that assistant for a butthole move like that. At least you have messaging to explain the wonky css is due to technical difficulties. RIP to your website.5 -
Freelance client wanted additions to a website I made( which I had already given them a 50% discount, due to being friends with my boss....) sent them a SoW and they complain because the cost...2
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Continuation of: https://devrant.com/rants/2784730/...
So, the potential client was in contact with me again, after our initial discussion ended with "okay, we'll try to figure out more clearer requirements", and then they procrastinated (as they confessed).
Now, they want a "simple portfolio type website with testimonial videos, a contact form and a hidden section with more videos for logged in customers"
... Okay, why don't you just... I basically linked them a bunch of service providers who have ready templates that they can just subscribe to for some monthly fee and have even someone at those providers' make the work for much less than I'd do it from scratch. My suggestions were ignored... and when I told them my best estimates of how long I'd take me and hoe much it would cost, the eventual reply was:
"Our CEO's going to think about it. He knows some dude who'd make a WP site for free.."
... well, that's going to end well.
Tbh, my correspondent did add that the "dude" is known to be extremely unreliable, so I might end up with this project after all.
I'm already ruing my decision to try my hands at some freelance work. I hate dealing with clients, so why do I even...?4 -
I have lost now another device to planned obscolence (how is that still legal), my g3 officially took its last breath two days ago, first it was its battery dying (thousands of devices broke that way [exactly two years after buying it] and at that time there was no batteries to replace it with) - whoever was brave enough to hold onto his device for longer than the battery failure - he then faced the simcard reader breaking and that was my case now too.
I asked many colleagues for help and even found a guy that does repairs for the oldest phones (got too excited), but even he couldnt find the issue, besides a guess that its the main chip that partially died on purpose or it got somewhere desoldered by the always and poorly managed overheating issue, which would cost almost the same to replace as just getting a new phone in the end and even then, theres probably a third switch they planned, to give you the final bullet.
I got a Xiaomi Redmi Note 4 now and really gotta say they have an amazing near vanilla android experience and their "two phone" isolated spaces are quite handy to seperate work and private notifications, apps and files.
It was even compatible with lineageOS and has a simple website to unlock the bootloader (a first for me, never saw any company making it that easy), but after trying their version of it, I don't even have to switch.
I will still miss the vibration motor of the g3, the feedback of it when typing is still to this day the best one I ever tried.8 -
I remember back then when we were building an E-commerce website. To maintain good performance the boss insisted using flat table. This was also applied to other projects like GPS. That was already 2013 when NoSQL databases like MongoDB was around already. His concern is he didn't like to risk on new technologies and it would cost money for training instead of using the existing "MySQL" and Microsoft SQL Server.
Everything I learned from that guy was just poop. -
The website was down.
She called me 5 or 6 times and mailed me twice that amount, asking how long it would take to get back up. Each time I answered that I did not know, that it was my job to figure out what was wrong, and that solving a problem doesn't have a fixed duration.
What I thought was that the updates on her emotional state of regret were not helping me to resolve the issue and cost me time. Why do people inflate the price of things they are going to pay for by asking for what cannot be known?
In the end it was just a shitty shared host having flipped some switches. It was their own damn fault for picking it over our recommended provider that keeps us informed about all them switches. Such as disallowing SymLinks overnight.1 -
So my first rant is about my current job. I got out of college after a year doing basic research on a SBIR/NASA grant. Nothing too interesting but great entry-level experience on sub-sustenance wages based on the cost of living in 1971.. And finally got that great offer to work with an IoT company for a living wage, with a chance to really flex my hard earned skills, and maybe even the ability to afford medical insurance while paying my rent on time!
They said 'network & software engineering', but my only projects are graphic design for sales copy with a guy who thinks FourSquare is a website hosting service.
They said 'full time', but in reality it isn't.
They said $50k a year, but apparently their mouths wrote a check that they don't have bank to cash.
The guy who approves my projects is taking a vacation because of the coronavirus panic and now I won't get paid for a week.
They seem like nice folks, but also a bit irresponsible and it looks like I fell for a bait-and-switch.
Now I'm trying to find a way of spinning off this experience into something that doesn't look like a lame free-lance graphic design gig while looking for better paying work.
if (!ethical) { alert("fml"); }4 -
Okay, so there's one guy in my class, which offends me for no reason (I don't give a f about that), and then few minutes later he comes to me and asks "can you make forum/launcher/website". So I say no, because I'm not gonna waste my time for free... So he offends me even more.
When I was telling "Sure, but that will cost you X PLN (Polish Nominals)" - he laughed.
This is really annoying.7 -
The same Dell XPS 15 cost $1800 on the Dell US website and 2300 euros ($2522) on the Dell French website (I'm from France), taxes don't raise the price by $722, fuck you Dell.6
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This is a part rant-part question.
So a little backstory first:
I work in a small company (5 including me) which is mostly into consultation (we have many tech partners where we either resell their products or if there is a requirement from one of our clients, we get our partners to develop it for them and fulfill the client requirements) so as you can see there is a lot of external dependencies. I act as a one-hat-fits-all tech guy, handling the company websites, social media channels, technical documentation, tech support, quicks POCs (so anything to do with anything technical, I handle them). I am a bit fed up now, since the CEO expects me to do some absurd shit (and sometimes micro manages me, like WTF I am the only one who works there with 100% commitment) and expects me to deliver them by yesterday.
So anyway long story short, our CEO finally had the brains to understand that we should start having our own product (which i had been subtly suggesting him to do for a while now!).
Now he came up with a fairly workable concept that would have good market reach (i atleast give him credits for that) and he wanted me to suggest the best way to move forward (from a both business and technical point of view). The concept is to have an auction-based platform for users to buy everyday products.
I suggested we build a web app as opposed to a mobile one (which is obvious, since i didnt want to develop a seperate website and a mobile app, and anyway just because we can doesnt mean we have to make a mobile app for everything), and recommended the Node/react based JS tech stack to build it.
At first he wanted me to single handedly build the whole platform within a month, I almost flipped (but me being me) then somehow calmed down and finally was able to explain him how complicated it was to single-handedly build a platform of such complexity (especially given my limited experience; did I mention that this is my first job and I am still in college, yeah!!) and convinced him to get an experienced back-end dev and another dev to help me with it.
Now comes the problem, I was to prepare a scope document outlining all the business and technical requirements of the project along with a tentative cost, which was fairly straightforward. I am currently stuck at deciding the server requirements and the system architecture for the proposed solution (I am thinking of either going with AWS - which looks a bit complicated to setup - or go with either Digital Ocean or Heroku):
I have assumed that at peak times we would have around 500-1000 users concurrently
And a daily userbase of 1000 users (atleast for the first few months of the platform running)
What would be the best way forward guys?
I did some extensive (i mean i read through some medium blogs! and aws documentation) research and put together the following specs (if we are going through AWS):
One AWS t3.medium ec2 instance for the node server (two if we want High Availability by coupling with the AWS load balancer and Elastic Beanstalk)
The db.t3.small postgres database
The S3 Storage bucket (100gb) for the React Front end hosting
AWS SNS for email/sms OTP and notification
And AWS CloudMonitor for logging amd monitoring.
Am I speculating the requirements properly, where have I missed??
Can u guys suggest what is the best specification for such a requirement (how do you guys decide what plan to go with)?
Any suggestions, corrections, advices are welcome3 -
I have a guy that will come in a few hours to discuss about an e-commerce website he wants to start his business. I've accepted to do it freelance.
Things are a little quick for my taste, but I know myself enough to know that if I don't jump head first, I'll back out and miss on an opportunity to add something valuable to my resume (and get a bit of money).
The thing is : I have nearly zero experience in 1) e-commerce websites and 2) client relationship and managing. So that will be a great challenge to me, but that's precisely what I need right now.
Anyway, I'm coming to you to ask a few questions : assuming his requirements are simple and common for an online shop, should I create it from scratch or would it be wiser to use a dedicated framework (Prestashop, Wix, etc.). If the latter, which one would you recommend, cost and efficiency-wise.
Still assuming simple and common requirements, how much time would it likely take, for an average developper (I'm no Linus Torvalds) working on average 8h a day ? More like 2-3 months, or more like 5-6 months ? I'm leaning more towards 2-3, but since I don't have experience in these kind of websites, I find a lot of user stories that might take me time to figure out.
Last but not least, what would be approximately an honest price, technical costs aside (domain, host, potential framework, etc.) for that kind of work. And for maintenance ?2 -
AWS Contractor
I've been putting a web application together that I'm looking to have published on AWS. Not having too much experience with AWS, I am looking to hire a contractor. I've had a number of quotes from different AWS admin's ranging from $40 an hour to $200 an hour, from 1-days worth of work to 2-months worth of work!
I'm not really sure what to make of it or to whom to trust. I believe they’re using my ignorance to overcharge me. I've listed my requirements below, could you guys use your professional experiences to let me know what you think is reasonable charge and where best I could find someone to help me.
My application is a US shopping website where people can set up an online shop and upload their products and maintain an inventory of the items.
This is what I’m looking for setup and configuration with the following two areas:
1) AWS SYSTEMS…
* AIM - Set up my server admin users.
* EC2 - Web Hosting.
* RDS - Fast DB.
* SES - To send emails.
* S3 Buckets - Uploaded image hosting.
Route 53 - I don’t know but someone said I should have this.
* Elastic Load Balancing - For, well, load balancing.
2) SCRIPTS…
* A script that would back up the database once a day and save it to a private S3 Bucket.
* A script that will run once a day that calls an internal API, and POST a query to it.
* A script that runs once every 90 days, to refresh the SSL using ZeroSSL.com
Is there anything that I've missed such as security systems, firewalls, auto scaling and CDNs?
The quotes that I've received arranged from $320 to $64,000. I know I am being abused because of my ignorance. I would never overcharge someone because the customer doesn't know the efforts of the work. I hope someone here can help to understand the efforts needed and can tell me the true cost.
Thank you6 -
Ugh. So for one of my classes (Projects In Computer Science) we have to break up into groups; Around 4-6 people per group and build some software for different local companies in the city that I live in.
Well.... the company that my group chose is so damn frustrating. Essentially we are making a glorified Applicant Form system for their website (there's more to it than just that). So you would think that the company knew what sort of fields would be needed for these forms.... Well no, we are over a month into this project and still have barely began coding shit because they are so fucking slow to respond to our emails, don't pick up our calls, or put off doing absolutely anything related to our project! Our professor asked that we would have a written copy of the project requirements made and signed off by the client within the first 2 weeks of classes starting. Took them over a month to get around to that, and still even after signing off on the requirements said that they were missing key forms that we needed to account for... Its your damn fault for not telling us that. We completely wasted our time planning out the database and structuring the front-end/back-end to work for the forms they had given us, and now there's yet another one with inconsistent fields, meaning we need to rethink out most of our system to account for this data. We only have 3 months total, 1 which is already gone and practically wasted, and even still we don't have any sort of confirmation on what form fields we have to account for.
Fucking hell just spend a little bit of time for both our sake, and your own to get us the finalized forms fields and requirements for this project. Honestly at the rate things are going we probably wont be able to finish, which sucks ass since this project is perfect resume material.
Seriously this company desperately needs us to make them this program since their current system is absolute shit. They are literally getting a system that would cost upwards of $20,000 for free, yet they don't seem to care much that we probably wont be able to finish due to their faults. If we didn't have a time cap on this project I wouldn't really care, but the fact that we only have 3 months, plus school work in other classes, exams and a personal life, its making this project a lot more stressful than it needs to be.
Its not like we have a project manager either, so all the emailing and communication is being done by myself. Honest to god, all they have/had to do was sit down for 1 hour of time to decide what they all needed and we would probably have been able to finish this project.5 -
I am currently weeks apart from releasing my pet project, which I am working on for almost 6 years now. Of course, there were a few stops here and there, but overall I've spent a lot of time and effort on this to make it work. It is far from complete but I am really happy with the results.
Now, since I am not a professional by any means - it is all a hobby for me - I was wondering, that how much my work would cost, if it were to made by professionals. Below the details so you can get a grasp of the thing.
The whole system is for our family business. We are selling parts for an old-timer truck model. The website was pretty much done already, people like it, it only needed some polishing and adding of the new features. But the thing behind it is monstrous (at least for me).
Apart from the custom-made CMS for the website (most of it was done already and didn't need to change), we can handle orders, partners, prices, stocks, overdue partners, pretty much anything a CRM would do.
There is a logic to automatically make orders based on import prices, or give the customer a custom discount based on the price gap of each product. There are products, which can contain other products, and their prices are dynamically changed based on a given formula, once an underlying product price changes. We can send e-mails when an order status changes, and there is also a page, where a user can interact whit their order, like changing the shipping or the delivery address. The system is (or will in the following weeks) also connected to multiple shipping companies' API, so we can order deliveries and print labels directly from our system. The whole thing is a custom made Laravel project by the way. There are countless more features, but I've just spent 2 hours explaining all to my father and was only be able to cover like half of it.
And why it is all custom made, you ask? Well, the business logic is a bit twisted, so it would be hard to operate as a regular web shop, since the availability of the products are uncertain, given the fact that it is a model, which isn't manufactured in 30 years. So, we can't just accept and send orders without confirming. It is also a thing, that people usually don't know what they need to order for their truck, so we have to help them, so they don't waste their money and the precious last pieces of a part unnecessarily.
Sorry for this rather long post, and it might feel like I just want to brag (well, I kinda do), but I am honestly interested in what such a custom product would cost in the market.
Thank you for your time answering.6 -
How much does a website cost ?
This handy tool (http://howmuchdoesawebsiteco.st/) easily calculate the cost of a website. But, do you find these prices reasonable ?5 -
I remember some years ago a phone call between my boss and a customer.
The customer wanted a website from us, and my boss told him what it would aproximately cost (it wasn't very much).
Customer got upset and said "How can it be so expensive? You're not saving lifes, are you?"
It never came to a contract, and I now work at a real company ...2 -
I can not emphasize enough as a webdeveloper how totally stunning the Apple website is. It’s at least just as amazing as their products and it doesn’t even cost any money for us to browse it and get inspired by it. Really top notch gorgeous pixels. *drool*4
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How much cost to design a restaurant website?
Hello Community Guys, How are you? I require your suggestion? are using website design cost calculators such as ( https://branex.com/website-cost-cal... ) significant in calculating the cost of a small business website.7 -
How do I properly and cost effectively integrate payment systems into a website? What do I have to look out for? Which payment portals can you recommend? I have a general hatred towards PayPal, am willing to integrate it though, I want to be able to handle credit cards and as many other payment options as possible (I am based in Europe - Austria). I also want to support payments via Monero. I have experience building websites from front to backend and have handled credentials and stuff like that before in a professional environment but never integrated any payment systems so I'd appreciate links to resources, recommendations and tips for doing so in a safe and cost effective way. Thank you.3
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How do you estimate cost for project in freelancing?
What would be your cost of simple app n website seprately?
Share your suggestions on full time freelancing4 -
What's the most cost effective way of hosting a Lamp stack website? I have a pretty basic website with less than 50 viewers per week.
I am so confused with all the options: GCP, Amazon lightsail, Ec2, godaddy, heroku, etc.
What would you guys recommend for such a small website? Currently, I've hosted it on Ec2 for the first year but I don't think that's cost effective at all after the first year.4 -
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