So... A random morning moment:
(c - Cient, m - me)

C: Help!!! Our users are complaining that our website is not working as intended!!! This is crucial!!!!
M: What's the problem? What is not working?
C: EVERYTHING!!!! FIX IT!!!!
M: Could you be more specific...?
C: Look at the bugsnag - it has all the errrors!!!
M: *looks there - no errors* - But... It has no errors...
C: Okay, so client told me he's using Galaxy SII - does that ring a bell?
M: *thinks that I'm fucked* - Asks, which browser?
C: Why do you need it? It's a browser after all...
M: Yeah but not all browsers are the same and I need type and version to investigate...
C: It's Samsung default browser... Last updated 2012 January.
M: Well, tell that user to update the browser, the site is working fine on newer versions...
C: No, you update it.
M: Browser?!
C: Yes, what else?!
M: Of course, I'll fly 3000 kilometres to press UPDATE button on clients phone...
C: Well, he's not doing it himself - he's afraid!
M: Well, that is his problem. Site is working fine for other users with newer browsers.
C: But... He's a client
M: I get it but he's a client that uses 6 years old browser and tries to visit our website. Don't you remember that we ditched IE support on your behalf for the same reason?!
C: Oh... I see... Can you make something that it works with 2005 browsers?
M: Of course... *evil laugh starts* I'll make the website work on EVERY single device EVER - make it plain text.
C: Are you joking?
M: Are you?

----

And since then, we ditched the actual need for supporting users with old browsers that don't update to modern standards... Feels great!

real shit?

thats how I will handle IE support in the future ^^

When your web app doesn't have to support IE...

I haven't told anyone I know yet but yesterday I got a call from a user and she asked me if I could come down and take a look at some software I support. I did and fixed the issue.
She then asked if I could take a look at her computer because help desk and PC team had tried to fix and couldn't.

5 minutes later I fixed it (every site she went to gave cert error in both chrome and ie). I stood up and there was a couple seconds of me and her just facing each other not saying anything. She was smiling ear to ear the whole time. (This issue was weeks old I think). Then she walks towards me......

And hugs me.

Please don't visit my portfolio website on Internet Explorer or I won't get the job.

The company I work for...
Has:

1. No CI/CD
2. SVN instead of GIT
3. Outsourcing to India (oof)
4. No Automated Testing
5. Uses Bugnet (ancient, outdated)
6. No clearly defined code standards
7. No real documentation on the code
8. Rubbish code
9. No desire to reduce technical debt
10. Poorly maintained DB
11. Poor outdated equipment
12. A useless PM
13. Still priotizes IE support (??)

On a scale of 1 to 10 how fucked is this company and anything they develop?

When I get told our Chrome-only app needs to support IE as well by the end of the year.

I am building a mobile site using flexbox. A senior dev came running to tell me that we need to support IE. Looked at him and said, "IT'S MOBILE!"

A new sales guy in a startup I used to work at was using Internet Explorer. I told him why are you using IE, it's a shitty browser and how frontend devs suffer to support it.
Before I continued, he interrupted me saying that he used to be the regional head of sales team in Microsoft and started defending IE.
I was like Oookaaayy.
......he left the company a week or two later

My boss is still forcing us to support IE11. Recently, we started having even more bugs with one of our vendors on IE. We filed bug reports with the vendor to fix it, and they came back with "no. Why would we fix anything for IE11? Not even Microsoft is fixing anything for IE11." Boss's answer: well, let's make a separate component for IE11. Probably using flash and/or silverlight. We asked about redirecting IE traffic to Edge, he said that's "the nuclear option." So, doing the thing that Microsoft suggests, that involves not much work at all is "the nuclear option"; ignoring industry standards and recommendations, introducing well known security vulnerabilities, losing money, and trying to circumvent the vendor that serves out our major product, however, is totally reasonable. Our IE traffic is less than 3% of our users at this point.

Why the fuck would anyone still want to support IE? It's 2018 for fuck sake! Sure, there's no reason a website shouldn't work on IE, but do I really need to fuck it up just because something doesn't properly align in IE?

Fuck IE! Why can't we just let it die?

Microsoft: We're brings new updates to Edge....

Me: Oh nice, was about time.
**Reads changelog**

"Edge now has support for Internet Explorer"

"No, really, you can now run IE in Edge."

Me: Oh for Fuck Sake!

All web developers should support up to IE9 without any problems.

Why? Because in Korea, it is normal.

Every person uses that damn Win7, which has either IE9 or IE10. Without IE support, no one will browse your webpage.

Now you would ask us, why don't you use other modern browsers?

We would then ask you, why would you install a new browser that is
1. Buggy
2. Heavy
3. Takes up ram
4. Has so many features
when you have an awesome minimalistic browser that is preinstalled, and works in all Windows? No thanks.

So, if you put a message saying you will soon drop support of IE, it means that you won't target Korea. Just after the support drop, there won't be traffic to your web site.

So what is the point of this rant?
1. We love IE. Lol
2. IE is lightweight, minimalistic, and the fastest browser in the world.
3. All websites should NOT drop support for IE.
4. We don't care whether web devs will have a hard time. We just think websites are built with Wix and Wordpress, and they work in IE, meaning, IE support is the number one priority.
5. If you ever start a business in Korea, and has a website, make sure to hire an senior Korean web dev who has worked with IE for a long time.
6. Here is the tl;dr
Hate us. Period.

This is bullshit.

We've got a project where we need to build a robot that can:
A. Follow a line.
B. Avoid obstacles
C. Go through a maze.

This, in itself, is fine. I can manage.

The problem is, the teacher that is supposed to support the course, is never where he's supposed to be.
Ie: he was supposed to be in the classroom to answer questions and give feedback yesterday from 09:00 to 13:00. The fucker didn't fuckin show up.

OK, so today, he's supposed to be here too, I've been sat in his classroom without him waiting for over an hour...

Also, no way I can do the maze part without knowing what defines a fucking blocked path, is it going to be a physical object or is the line going to be a different cor if you're not allowed to pass there?

I'm getting tired of this bs.

I'm just going to leave this here...

none support IE so it shouldn't be that hard😁

I have just thought of the perfect solution when support for fucking ancient IE versions creaps in the requirements (and asking the assholes to produce numbers to support the crazy does not help)

Just do browser detection and if IE < 9 Replace body with one of those winXP alert boxes that tell them there Computer is infected and that they can get a free scan (it's what they are used to anyway). Put a link to the installer of your favourite browser over the entire image.😎

Good news is 100℅ code reuse! Works on every outdated IE and every website that requires IE support.

Today we dropped support for IE 11, I’m so happy

trying to use flexbox when you have to support IE. fuck IE. fuck it. fuck it in the ass with a rusty pipe.

Damn, GitHub is on rampage lately. After dropping tls < 1.3 support, they are expected to drop IE support by July.

Praise GitHub 😍

What manager says: You should support IE because a very large portion of our userbase is already there and they somewhat comply with web standards so it shouldn't be that hard. Also most good sites support IE so we should support it too.

What web developer hears: blah blah blah SUPPORT IE blah blah blah SUPPORT IE

Browser support for css... Dam you IE...

May your enemy webdevs have to support IE 👻

So after two hours of debugging I get to know that Chrome doesn't differentiate between font-weight 100-500 unless on a Mac, and IE does, but IE doesn't support the <picture > tag 😶

After being live multiple years supporting only Safari, Firefox, and Chrome, one customer wanted IE support. After taking a close look at the usage numbers, and discussing with us front-end devs, our product guy shot it down. Pop the champagne!

Stupid people needs to die, so we won't have to provide IE support anymore.

!wk66
Maybe?
If we (Web makers) stop making [ie,safari,android native browser] compatible websites... Maaaaybe, just sayin' maaaybee THEY will take some time to support web standards ?? maybe ?

Remote server software installation support is great!
You can watch them trying to understand where what is on the file system, they repeatedly switch between windows without doing something on either of them and they set your IE browser policy to allow all kinds of domains & sites which are preventing them from downloading their software.
Todays guy did not know how to transfer a file between the local machine and one in remotedesktop. 😄

(If you do support like this, then don't get me wrong, I'm not making fun of you personally, it is just funny to watch if you have to actually sit there and wait for the support to finish.) 😉

Lol! Didn't knew Github doesn't support IE 🤣🤣🤣

FUCKING IE!
Anyone please remember to ask if the project|s that you're going to work on do|es need Internet Explorer support.
If it's the case just expect any resemblance of modern frontend development skills go backwards into the backward compatibility territory and never going forward.

I'll start looking for another job, can't be bothered for this payment and regressing my dev skills for client needs.
Again FUCK YOU IE!

If only Microsoft wouldn't write any browser...

It does give you that cold rush feeling, when a low level support agent can just use some sort of "user impersonation" feature and literally send you screenshots of your conversations or other, what seems private information and should be only used for actual escalated staff, for when there's a need for an actual middleman (ie. client not paying - logs review) and for everything else there should be a test account they can do screenshots from, e.g. for general website use questions

So today when I was testing my new website I learned that IE/Edge does not support smooth scrolling with JavaScript.

I get why it doesn't work in IE but Edge... like what? Edge is supposed to be a modern browser... No?

@jenochi this is for you

Due to a recent suggestion by the above-mentioned @jenochi, I though that this deserved to be a rant.

Dropping support for IE will once and for all ease web developers lives and it has got to start somewhere. Who's with us!?

I feel like an old man when I hear the Safari rants.

"In my day we had to support IE 6... and we liked it!"

When IE support is dropped!!!

So I'm rebuilding my personal site, creating a nice layout, etc. I only just thought about checking how it looks in ie. That horrible bastard browser just fucks up the layout, and I'm not sure why some css rules don't even seem to fucking work. Probably gonna say screw it and not support ie, but it still sucks.

When a client asks us to support IE 6 can we start noting that there are some fucking useless clients out there and that Microsoft is inflicted with more of them than most? The continued existence of IE 6 isn't really down to Microsoft---it's down to their useless fucking customers.

So, let's beat those people with a stick until they upgrade to Edge.

At that point everyone can return to fighting about FF, Chrome and Edge---apart from me as all browsers seem to support cat JPGs.

We make a small server product with a web based admin system, as we were going to have limited customers who will use this (usually just the engineers) and this was not on the www. We dropped all support for all browsers other then chrome/firefox. No more IE/safari bugs for us XD

Ive been working on pseudo-Java (ie some 3rd company's UNDOCUMENTED programming language) that they parse into Java in their backend

It doesnt even support if-else (only ifs and elses) or a boolean combination of False and OR together lmao

mainly a GRPC middleware-language

Given its lack of features (arrays/collections) or documentation, I just had to implement a flag-array using a 0-1 string

Im throwing exceptions unless combined strings equal Lengths and is only 1s

living like in 80s-90s 💀

Back in the old days, ie. before facebook, I used to save all my funny email attachments to a folder. I got talking to one of the support guys. Seemed a nice fella. So, I network shared my folder and told him to how to connect. I did suggest that he probably shouldn't share it with everyone else in support as some of the material was a tad risqué.

I realised he hadn't taken notice of this advice when I walked in the office and all the support PC CD drives were randomly opening and closing and the PCs playing farting noises. (Anyone remember that?)

I had to go round all the PCs and kill the process.

I then returned to my own machine and disconnected the shared drive.

A house.. or lego star destroyer..😝😆

Joke aside, I'd rewrite current project from scratch to get rid of all the automation and IE dependancies and make it cross browser and all the dead code...and all excess ORMs and especially EFCF..and also make support for db diff than oracle..and no need for ora client installation..

Yeah, I'm a work junky, I have no projects of my own.. one kid is demanding enough of my time.. 😉

Everyone complains about supporting IE. Should we talk about Opera Mini support?

For all the hate that Java gets, this *not rant* is to appreciate the Spring Boot/Cloud & Netty for without them I would not be half as productive as I am at my job.

Just to highlight a few of these life savers:
- Spring security: many features but I will just mention robust authorization out of the box
- Netflix Feign & Hystrix: easy circuit breaking & fallback pattern.
- Spring Data: consistent data access patterns & out of the box functionality regardless of the data source: eg relational & document dbs, redis etc with managed offerings integrations as well. The abstraction here is something to marvel at.
- Spring Boot Actuator: Out of the box health checks that check all integrations: Db, Redis, Mail,Disk, RabbitMQ etc which are crucial for Kubernetes readiness/liveness health checks.
- Spring Cloud Stream: Another abstraction for the messaging layer that decouples application logic from the binder ie could be kafka, rabbitmq etc
- SpringFox Swagger - Fantastic swagger documentation integration that allows always up to date API docs via annotations that can be converted to a swagger.yml if need be.
- Last but not least - Netty: Implementing secure non-blocking network applications is not trivial. This framework has made it easier for us to implement a protocol server on top of UDP using Java & all the support that comes with Spring.

For these & many more am grateful for Java & the big big community of devs that love & support it.

Yet another day at my company, Im rewriting some old code for client (rewriting old, php 4 system for vindications managment) and you know the moment when you are focused and someone comes to you to absolutely ruin your focus. Fine, whatever. Oh, for fuck sake. Again dev is doing as support becouse one moron with second can't login into zimbra admin panel and add fucking mailbox. I show them exacly how they login, remind them they are admins too, slowly show them, so you click "manage" than you click that gear icon and than you click "new", fill in email address and password. As simple as 1-2-3. Okay, fuck it, time to go for a cig. I just finish up few lines and stand, grab my vape and start walking towards door. In door I find my buddy with 2 random people. He told me that they are interns and that I should show them some basics and stuff around that. Oh god, fuck my life. If anything, Im definitely very bad teacher, mainly becouse I often have problems with saying what I mean in the way that somebody actually understans and knows what I am trying to say. Whatever. Fuck it all. I grab two of our old laptops that nobody used in like a year or so, and first thing I quickly figure out, is that one day for some what the fuck reason I dont even dont bothered to remember I installed Arch on both while I dont usually use Arch. I just needed it for some specific reason. Whatever. So I guess I will need to upgrade fucking system. Our network isn't really great so that was like... hour or so. In the meantime I figured what they know about coding in general etc, and holly shit. One of them (there was boy and girl), girl, apparently never ever in her life even touched code. Well... fuck. Why am I wasting my time? Becouse there was some programme or some shit like that... Someone could tell me before so I could mentally prepare.. fuck it. whatever. So while laptops are doing their pacman thing, I sit with them and slowly start to explain based on my machine some really basic concepts. Second guy actually had some expirience, he knew how to make some really really basic logic and stuff, so he had another world of problems, becouse it was PHP and, as we all know, everyone hates PHP, and... yeah.. You can probably imagine his approach. Yes, you get user input in super global array. I really wanted to say "Now shut the fuck up and write that fucking $_POST".

hour or so passed, I was close to giving up to not let my anger rise (im not really good teacher... I mentioned it. I suck at teaching others) but luckly machines upgraded. He wanted to use visual studio code, she didnt care too much, so I installed phpstorm in trial mode. whatever. Since that's linux and they were not comfortable with that, I walked them through installing LAMP stack, and when finally it started to look like LAMP stack, I requested them to google how to install xdebug, becouse xdebug is very usefull and googling skill is your best weapon on that field. I go for cig, come back and what I see boiled me a little bit. The girl was stuck looking at github page randomly looking through xdebug source code and idk... hoping for miracle (she admited she thought there will be instructions somewhere) and the guy was in good place, xdebug has a place to paste your phpinfo() for custom instructions. But it didn't work for him, he claims that wizzard told him it cant help him.. hmm intresting, you are sure you pasted in phpinfo? yes, he is sure. Okay, show me.

Again mindblown how someone can have problems with reading.

so his phpinfo() looked like that:
```<?php
phpinfo();```

I highlighted on the page the words "output of phpinfo". He somehow didn't see it or something. He didnt know, he thought that he needs to put in phpinfo so he did. OMG.

Finally, I figured out I can workaround my intern problem, and I just briefly shown them php.net, how documentation looks, said to allways google in english, if he uses tutorial to read whole fucking thing, not just some parts of it, and left them with simple task, that took them whole day and at which they ultimately failed.

To make 3 buttons labeled "1" "2" "3" and if someone presses one of them, remember in session that they pressed it and disallow pressing other ones.

Never fucking again interns. Especially those who randomly without apparent reason almost literally just spawn in front of you and here, its your fucking problem now.

Fuck it, I have some time to get back to my stuff. Time is running so lets not waste it.

After around 15 minutes my one of my superiors comes in and asks me if I can go on meeting with him and other superior. My buddy goes with us, and next 3 hours I was basically explaining that you cannot do some things (ie. know XYZ happened without any source of information) in code, and I can't listen for callbacks from ABC becouse it wont send anyc cuz in their fucking brilliant idea ABC can't even know that this script would even exist, not to mention it wants callbacks.

Sometimes I hate my job.

We support IE at work.

went to test page in IE, CRASH... With a freaking jquery exception, what?!?! Error was no help, debugging was pointless.

Took me 30min to find out that I can't define a variable in a JS function definition like "function doStuff(isThing = false)".... That's ES6 only...

Made sure I prevent further mistakes by setting my PHPstorm language setting to ES5.1

<rant>
I was once a pure server side developer. Then came full stack development. So in order to keep up with the competition, I had to brave through front-end development.

But goddamn javascript, make up your mind between functions, and “Objects”.

Also variable visibility. Goddamnit. I thought ES6 was widely supported. I was happy doing const and let bbut goddamn testing frameworks, grunt and shit. Can’t make up it’s mind to support it unitedly.

And lastly, IE. Goddamn it, why the fuck are you not supporting Promise by default. We’re fucking 2017. [insert slowpoke meme]
</rant>

One good thing though, I like the library vuejs.

Bad thing is, this is just the beginning of a much more upcoming headache.

This morning I got a reply to my tech support email:

The problem was that the dynamic pages on my website are no longer being served as dynamic pages and so IIS is throwing errors on every page load. Seems to me like they've done something their end because I didn't touch it when it happened...

The tech support email essentially told me to rename all my files from .cshtml (ie. a dynamic page) to .html.

I'm not expert, but I doubt this is going to solve the problem...

I have a nightmare project that I will probably be ranting about quite a lot in the coming weeks, but I don't want SEO to pick up the specifics on the off chance my peers Google the issues we're facing and my profile comes up.

Let me set up the scene by describing the predicament, and then I'll get to the most outrageous thing I've heard while working at this job. It gives you a CLEAR idea of why we're in this situation in the first place.

Anyways, the nightmare project only runs in IE with compatibility mode set to version 6. So it only runs in IE 6 at the latest.

And it is massive. I'm talking real, real enormous.

The most recent roadblock I ran into while Chrome-ifying it is the extensive use of a browser API that was removed 8 years ago.

It involves synchronous data input and I know for a relatively certain fact there's no way to fix it without combing through every single reference to this API and converting the ones that need sync data (not all of them do) to callbacks. How big of an issue is that?

Well, just one of that 15-ish modules has over 900 references to it. Even just creating a spreadsheet of "commented out / doesn't need a fix / needs fix" for each reference in 1/15th of this project would take days of manual labor.

Here's the rant.

So after discussing this issue in the meeting (we ended on "they don't believe me that we can't just replace it with jQuery") I brought up the next issue. One of our 3rd party libraries is so old it doesn't work anymore and we can't modify that code (it's compiled).

They said that even if it was backwards compatible (no fucking way. This version is like, at least 10 years old, I guarantee it) they can't simply replace it because we don't have a subscription to this product anymore (suggesting we find an alternative).

And I fucking kid you not, this is what happened next.

They then began discussing how this is why you shouldn't use 3rd party code. Because it becomes obsolete and you can't even fix it yourself because it's not yours to edit.

Yes. They said this DIRECTLY after we discussed our 900+ references to a browser API >>REMOVED<< 8 years ago. Yes, they said this about a 3rd party library that receives regular support but is totally FUCKED because we NEVER updated it after adding it and we never even renewed the LICENSE.

What the FUCK

When will be able to drop support for IE? Everything works EVERYWHERE ELSE except IE!!

Client: hey, we need to build an interactive campaign page. Something that can be fun on mobile too..
Developer: o...kay... such as?
Client: how about a 360 environment and mobile can make use of the gyroscope?
Developer: should be fine but may I know what is the browser support we need to cater to?
Client: IE 9
Developer: .... ok we may need a fallback for non-supported. May I know how about the timeline?
Client: 1 month.

FML.

Sometimes I really wonder about the elites supporting the woke culture, BLM movement, to the point saying "All lives matter" they go nuts is rather sinister. ie push the needle too far beyond the cringyness and use reverse psychology mechanism to bring maximum hatred as possible to the opposing group to the point of creating wars and conflict

There is a saying that goes "Only a crisis - actual or perceived - produces real change." So could be that to bring back the war economy.

I mean history is filled with such tactics on a grand scale: Nero, Hitler, Neocons such as strauses, Wolfowitz (lookup wolfowitz leaked doctrine), drumsfied, nuland leading the Iraq war (it did bring people together for a while before they realize it was a sham). And now same thing with China and Russia.

It makes no sense otherwise for the elitists to support it.

Getting your web app working on mobile Safari and iOS like the other browsers is the worst nightmare, like in the old days with IE. It has a lot of stupid restrictions and lacks support for browser standards.

Why haven't I learned about js fetch before now. I've even used socket.io!

Fetch is amazing and I just built a function for using fetch with WordPress AJAX hooks. Yes I know it's WordPress and there's jQuery but all of my custom plugins use vanilla js as a little fuck you.

Oh yeah but ie doesn't support it at all

I have a friend who works in IE support at Microsoft business branch, any questions for the boy?

Why do people use fucking IE/Edge, that makes Styling so fucking complicated, half of the things are not fucking supported, and these fucking clients want support for those damn fucking piece of shit browsers.
I just want to blow up every fucking computer which still has no other browser Except those pieces of shit.

Hi everybody! I would like to know if someone could tell me why I should install a converter between Javascript and EcmaScript if there is already support for ES? Is it for IE?

Why would you say that your website should support IE?? Whyyy?? Who uses that except for downloading Chrome? You just make our lives miserable with that :(

When console.log is undefined. Thankfully I don't need to support versions of IE that old anymore.

Even devrant doesn't support IE/Edge anymore :(

I really need to appreciate IE in so many ways. It let us to install other browsers, test crap JavaScript code and finally recommending customers to use IE to support their app.

Front end Devs - Do you still develop websites to support IE 11 (or latest)?

Holy shit. I've been working on a project for the last few months. It's been going fairly well all things considered. We're currently at the tail-end of the project and are set to be dev complete next Friday.

We're on a headless CMS + Gatsby and decided to use a front-end framework (This is important to the story) to "speed development time."

PM comes to me yesterday and inquires about functional/visual QA on IE11. IE-What?! This framework I was told I had to use doesn't support IE11.. like.. at all, and now we need to support IE11, at the ass-end of this project, cause 60% of the traffic on their current site uses IE11? Oh come on!

So its looking like we get to re-write a few components from scratch. Then we get to try and fix the display issues for the other ones... FML, I was looking forward to being done with this so I could take a week off and go recharge before Thanksgiving garbage.

IE11 weird behaviour!!

So I'm building a website for management purpose. I'm asked to implement confirm pop up box.
This pop up box uses one div with dynamic content which is created using javascript and not hardcoded in html file.
Here comes the twist. I used append() function to append child elements inside that div. Everything works fine in chrome and Firefox. Pop up shows upon clicking button. But in case of IE 11, on clicking button, It asks user to download fucking json file, instead of showing pop up !!
I'm like WTF is going on??? How the fuck this json file is generated by my code??
Turned out, this happened because of append() function. That doesn't support in IE11. Fixed it, by using appendChild() method.

Don't ask me what kind of data was in that json file. I was too scared to open it!!
Things like this are scary and weird for a fresher like me. :(

so we are having a campus recruitment at college. So there's a company that came in campus . The first step was to register on their website however their website is so shitty that they have specified that their Website is working just on Chrome and IE and not on Firefox . I was like what kind of developer support IE over Firefox really on top my friends who were applying at this company spend over 5 hrs just to register and the worst part @ 9 their server crashed . I would rather drink bleach than joining such a company

So my schol has this softwarecenter site from which all software must be installed (if you aren't admin). That's fina and all, i mesn they want to conteoll what we can install, and provide some paid software, BUT WHY THE HELL DID THEY DECIIDE TO USE SITE THAT ONLY WORKS IN IE!? EVERY TIME I OPEN IT I HAVE TO COPY THE LINK FROM CHROME (default browser) AND THEN OPEN IE! IT DOESN'T EVEN SUPPORT EDGE! (Btw all the software found on this site is out of date.)

For web devs here, do we really still need to support browsers of the evil (yeah I'm talking about MS browsers, Edge included) ?

I mean, building a css ui library here in 2017, without the benefits of custom properties, grid and so many other cool things, is so fucking frustrating.
A practical example : color theming with custom properties = Fuck Yeah / color theming without custom properties = so verbose and painfull, sucks.

The library is mostly for private usage at the moment so... I'm about to drop IE and Edge in the deepest shithole of the darkest cavern of my memory, and move on coding my lib with modern CSS, with almost no regret for the ghosts of the past who are still using these shitware today.

Should I ? Or should I... maintain compatibility as we traditionnally do ?
What's you guys opinion about this ? Can we finally kickban these browsers from our lives ?

I am having an introspective moment as a junior dev.

I am working in my 3rd company now and have spent the avg amount of time i would spent in a company ( 1- 1.5 years)

I find myself in similar problems and trajectories:

1. The companies i worked for were startups of various scales : an edtech platform, an insurance company (branch of an mnc) and a b2b analytics company

2. These people hire developers based on domain knowledge and not innovative thinking , and expect them to build anything that the PMs deem as growth/engagement worthy ( For eg, i am bad at those memory time optimising programming/ ds/algo, but i can make any kind of android screen/component, so me and people like me get hired here)

3. These people hire new PMs based on expertise in revenue generation and again , not on the basis of innovative thinking, coz most of the time these folks make tickets to experiment with buttons and text colors to increase engagement/growth

4. The system goes into chaos mode soon since their are so many cross operating teams and the PMs running around trying to boss every dev , qa and designer to add their changes in the app.

5. meanwhile due to multiple different teams working on different aspects, their is no common data center with up to date info of all flows, products and features. the product soon becomes a Frankenstein monster.

6. Thus these companies require more and more devs and QAs which are cogs in the system then innovative thinkers . the cogs in the system will simply come, dimwittingly add whatever feature is needed and goto home.

7. the cogs in system which also start taking the pain of tracking the changes and learning about the product itself becomes "load bearing cogs" : i.e the devs with so much knowledge of the product that they can be helpful in every aspect of feature lifecycle .

8. such devs find themselves in no need for proving themselves , in no need for doing innovative work and are simply promoted based on their domain knowledge and impact.

My question is simply this : are we as a dev just destined to be load bearing cogs?

we are doing the work which ideally a manager should be doing, ie maintaining confluence docs with end to end technical as well as business logic info of every feature/flow.

So is that the only definition of a Software Engineer in a technical product?

then how come innovations happen in companies like meta Microsoft google open ai etc?

if i have to guess as a far observer, i would say their diversity in different fields helps them mix and match stuff and lead to innovative stuff.

For eg, the android os team in google has helped add many innovative things in google cloud product and vice versa.

same is with azure and windows . windows is now optomissed to run in cloud machines when at one point it was just a horrible memory hogging and slow pc OS

for small companies, 1 ideology/product/domain is their hero ideology/product/domain .

an insurance company tries to experiment with stuff related to insurances,health,vehicles,and the best innovations they come up with is "lets give user a discount in premium if they do 5000 steps a day for an year".

edtech would say "lets do live streaming for children apart from static videos"

but Android team at google said , "since ai team is doing so well, lets include ai in various system apps and support device level models" ~ a much larger innovation as 2 domains combined to make a product

The small companies are not aiming to be an innovative product, they are just aiming to be a monopoly product. and this is kinda sad

Daughters fancy new insulin pump:
Rant 1 - works with Safari and IE, no Chrome support - that takes some skills
Rant 2 - Wife's laptop is Windows 10 - sync website identifies the operating system as "Windows NT" (unless a typo and they meant Windows TeN)
Rant 3 - syncing data - "next" button wants you to re-set up the device (from scratch) - "finish" button (on the same screen) actually syncs the data - did they do an UX training?

Spent all afternoon and night, trying to get Windows reinstalled on my old college laptop because my dad needed another pc since I'll be using his personal laptop to wfh.

1. DVD Drive is faulty, slow/faulty reads
2. I don't have product keys (they're all stores on a USB disk, I should make a backup... that I didn't bring back to their place) except for Vista and Win 8 but Win 8 key already used by another PC. I have a burned Win 7 disc
3. Apparently it had a virus which was never removed, fresh reinstall never done. It hides the DVD drives and kills the internet and makes the installers think there's only 400MB.
4. I followed some wiki that said to Mark the C drive as Active... Which fixed the issue but then I decided to do the full install from boot... Except on reboot, apparently this fcked up the MBR
5. Tried googling how to fix the MBR, eventually found some USB app that supposedly fixes it. Create a USB boot disk, not recognized
6. Finally try the DVDs and release it recognize them somewhat when booting... Win 7 one kept hanging on the load screen
7. Somehow Vista got thru and actually installed...

Now IE and Chrome both complain about HTTPS issues and how they don't support Vista...

But at least my dad now had a laptop he can use to do non-work stuff while he uses his company laptop to do work.

Rant!

The wilde difference in native support between IE , gecko and WebKit is like difference between a real burger and MacDonald's,

They're both burgers but one will make you happy and the other will give diarrhea and a swollen butthole

Chrome doesn't support something, something Firefox doesn't.
When you plan to take a risk, they give F*** you later on.

IE do you even exist?

I'm going to be making a table library (think DataTables)

So for those web dev gurus, should I render the data to a basic <table> or should I use CSS grids?

IE compatibility is not a consideration.

The table will also support grouping (pivot table) so something like rowspan will be a must

Spent 4 hours today debugging the polyfill for fetch in IE to discover the latest version of IE11 has a bug in FileReader.

I have no way of getting around it. It simply cuts my text response off by a few hundred characters. I have to come up will a solution by Friday...

Why do we have to still support IE 😭

Any front end development job that doesn't require me to support IE

Can't do rapid prototyping and still support IE 😂😂😂

The ancient ones: web developers who still support IE.

While building this site I decide to check if it works in internet explorer (you know, would be kinda nice) only to find out that apparently even edge does not support the js notation:
class MyClass {
// Stuff here.
}
Throws an exception 'MyClass' is undefined... Fuck you ie. Making me rewrite my damn classes.

6pm Friday , opening a trouble ticket on a citrix server because an app has the wrong link ie.
The support that you answers:
Ie on your computer ? On the server ?

Nope, on the laptop of my little sister....

Ie8 is the oldest browser I'll support. Come to me for anything older and I'll refuse. Even then it's a hassle.
Honestly. It's so old and insecure and someone comes to me asking to support ie 6. Really? I mean, a photography site doesn't need to support that old of a browser.

#Suphle Rant 6: Deptrac, phparkitect

This entry isn't necessarily a rant but a tale of victory. I'm no more as sad as I used to be. I don't work as hard as I used to, so lesser challenges to frustrate my life. On top of that, I'm not bitter about the pace of progress. I'm at a state of contentment regarding Suphle's release

An opportunity to gain publicity presented itself last month when cfp for a php event was announced last month. I submitted and reviewed a post introducing suphle to the community. In the post, I assured readers that I won't be changing anything soon ie the apis are cast in stone. Then php 7.4 officially "went out of circulation". It hit me that even though the code supports php 8 on paper, it's kind of a red herring that decorators don't use php 8 attributes. So I doubled down, suspending documentation.

The container won't support union and intersection types cuz I dislike the ambiguity. Enums can't be hydrated. So I refactored implementation and usages of decorators from interfaces to native attributes. Tried automating typing for all class properties but psalm is using docblocks instead of native typing. So I disabled it and am doing it by hand whenever something takes me to an unfixed class (difficulty: 1). But the good news is, we are php 8 compliant as anybody can ask for!

I decided to ride that wave and implement other things that have been bothering me:
1) 2 commands for automating project setup for collaborators and user facing developers (CHECK)
2) transferring some operations from runtime to compile/build TIME (CHECK)
3) re-attempt implementing container scopes

I tried automating Deptrac usage ie adding the newly created module to the list of regulated architectural layers but their config is in yaml, so I moved to phparkitect which uses php to set the rules. I still can't find a library for programmatically updating php filed/classes but this is more dynamic for me than yaml. I set out to implement their library, turns out the entire logic is dumped into the command class, so I can neither control it without the cli or automate tests to it. I take the command apart, connect it to suphle and run. Guess what, it detects class parents as violations to the rule. Wtflyingfuck?!

As if that's not bad enough, roadrunner (that old biatch!) server setup doesn't fail if an initialization script fails. If initialization script is moved to the application code itself, server setup crumbles and takes the your initialization stuff down with it. I ping the maintainer, rustacian (god bless his soul), who informs me point blank that what I'm trying to do is not possible. Fuck it. I have to write a wrapper command for sequentially starting the server (or not starting if initialization operations don't all succeed).

Legitimate case to reinvent the wheel. I restored my deleted decorators that did dependency sanitation for me at runtime. The remaining piece of the puzzle was a recursive film iterator to feed the decorators. I checked my file system reader for clues on how to implement one and boom! The one I'd written for two other features was compatible. All I had to do was refactor decorators into dependency rules, give them fancy interfaces for customising and filtering what classes each rule should actually evaluate. In a night's work (if you're discrediting how long writing the original sanitization decorators and directory iterator), I coupled the Deptrac/phparkitect library of my dreams. This is one of the those few times I feel like a supreme deity

Hope I can eat better and get some sleep. This meme is me after getting bounced by those three library rejections