2010: PHP, CSS, Vanilla JS, and a LAMP Server.

Ah, the simple life.

2016: Node.js, React, Vue, Angular, AngularJS, Polymer, Sass, Less, Gulp, Bower, Grunt.

I can't handle this, I'm shifting domains to Machine Learning.

2017: Numpy, Scipy, TensorFlow, Theano, Keras, Torch, CNNs, RNNs, GANs and LOTS AND LOTS OF MATH!

Okay, okay. Calm down there fella.
JavaScript doesn't seem that complicated now, does it? 🙈

Watching a cookery program and it made me think it must be hard being a chef.

Then it made me think that being a web developer is a bit like cooking.

You have your ready meal equivalent with WordPress and Wix.

You have your cook at home kits with front-end frameworks like bootstrap and foundation.

You have your recipes and ingredients with package managers like npm and JavaScript modules.

Then you have your own home made cooking using vanilla js, CSS and HTML made to your own liking.

Just like being a good chef, being a good web developer is about knowing what ingredients and methods to include, but also what to leave out, to get the best result!

Intelligence and ability cannot be measured by education.

I have a client who asked a Master in Computer Science to develop a small system, for querying product title and their code. The guy used python, vanilla js, and... Txt file for the "database". Then my client asked me to integrated this in... WordPress.

This was in 2016. And idiot as I'm, I agreed and adapted his code to use php and a database.

April this year, my client said they are still using the python system to add new products all this time, in parallel. And wanted to update the WordPress with the data.

- No problem! - I said. Just send me the SQL file.

So the Master in CS sent me a SQL coded in ANSI. I asked for the SQL again, but with a more appropriate encoding. He took 1 month to reply back, and said it would be better if I get rid of the database and just use the txt file for querying.

This is outrageous.

I really hate people who are educated but completely useless.

Manager: Absolutely everything must be done with libraries, vanilla JS solutions are absolutely prohibited!

Manager: Why is our app so slow to load? Is there a library we can install to speed the loading up?

Why THE FUCK does the StackOverflow Community answer any JS related question with a solution containing jQuery - sometimes even without mentioning it?

Gosh - it's 2017 use Vanilla or at least a modern libary!

Hello everyone, this is my first time here so hi! I want to tell you all a story about my current situation.

At 18 while in the military I was able to get my first computer, it was a small hp pavilion laptop with windows 7. The system would crash constantly, even though I would only use it for googling stuff and using fb to talk to people. 5 months after I got it and continuously hated it decided to find out why and who could I blame (other than myself) for the system making me do the ctrl alt del dance all the time....

Found out that there are people called computer programmers that made software. Decided to give it a go since I had some free time most days. Started out with c++ because it was being recommended in some websites. Had many "oh deeeeer lord" moments. After not getting much traction I decided to move to Java which seemed like an easier step than C++. Had fun, but after some verbosity I decided to move into more dynamic lands. Tried JS and since at the time there was no Node and I was not very into the idea of building websites I decided to move into Python, Ruby, PHP and Perl and had a really great time using and learning all of them. I decided to get good in theoretical aspects of computer programming and since I had a knack for math I decided to get started with basic computer science concepts.

I absolutely frigging loved it. And not only that, but learning new things became an obsession, the kind that would make me go to bed at 02:40 am just to wake up at 04:00 or 06:00 because the military is like that. I really wanted to absorb as much as I could since I wanted to go to college for it and wanted to be prepared since I did not wanted to be a complete newb. Took Harvard CS50, Standford Programming 101 with Java, Rice's Python course and MIT's Python programming class. I had so much fun I don't regret it one bit.
By the time I got to college I had already made the jump to Linux and was an adept Arch user, Its not that it was superior or anything, but it really forced me to learn about Linux and working around a terminal and the internals of the system to get what I want. Now a days I settle for Fedora or Debian based systems since they are easier and time is money.

Uni was a breeze, math was fun and the programming classes seemed like glorified "Hello World" courses. I had fun, but not that much fun, most of my time was spent getting better at actual coding. I am no genius, nor my grades were super amazing(I did graduate with honors though) but I had fun, which never really happened in school before that.

While in school I took my first programming gig! It was in ASP.NET MVC, we were using C#, I got the job through a customer that I met at work, I was working in retail during the time and absolutely hated it. I remember being so excited with the gig, I got to meet other developers! Where I am from there aren't that many and most of them are very specialized, so they only get concerned with certain aspects of coding (e.g VBA developers.....) and that is until I met the lead dev. He was by far one of the biggest assholes I had ever met in my life. Absolutely nothing that I would do or say made hem not be a dick. My code was steady, but I would find bugs of incomplete stuff that he would do, whenever I would fix it he would belittle me and constantly remind me of my position as a "junior dev" in the company saying things as "if you have an issue with my code or standards tell me, but do not touch the code" which was funny considering that I would not be able to advance without those fixes. I quit not even 3 months latter because I could not stand the dick, neither 2 of the other developers since the immediately resigned after they got their own courage.

A year latter I was able to find myself another gig. I was hesitant for a moment since it was another remote position in which I had already had a crappy experience. Boy this one was bad. To be fair, this was on me since I had to get good with Lumen after only having some exposure to Laravel. Which I did mentioned repeatedly even though he did offer to train me in order to help him. Same thing, after a couple of weeks of being told how much I did not know I decided to get out.

That is 2 strikes.

So I waited a little while and took a position inside another company that was using vanilla PHP to build their services. Their system was solid though, the lead engineer remains a friend and I did learn a lot from him. I got contracted because they were looking for a Java developer. The salary was good. But when I got there they mentioned that they wanted a developer in Java...to build Android. At the time I was using Java with Spring so I though "well how hard can this be! I already use Android so the love for the system is there, lets do this!" And it was an intense, fun and really amazing experience.

-- To be continued.

VueJS FTW!

Today I realised I've been a fucking idiot.
For the last few years I have familiarized myself with libraries like React, VueJS, Preact etc.

All while playing around on my own side projects but when it came to doing actual work (perhaps from a lack of confidence/working experience with them) I always reverted to vanilla js or jQuery because I convinced myself it wasn't the `right` use case or `the project was too simple or small`.

I WAS AN IDIOT.

The below screenshot is a prototype of a n invoicing tool I needed to write which uses VueJS and is implemented in 50 beautiful, clean, maintainable loc. Combined with TypeScript it is a dream - never did I think I would see the day where I could grab an inputs numerical value without prepending the variable with + so I don't end up concatenating them as strings.

If your like me and haven't started using some kind of data binding view framework stop procrastinating and just do it. I feel like I wasted a large chunk of my life clinging onto my old ways.

Be a real man and learn & understand the core JavaScript.

Maybe it's time to stop jQuery being lazy and start using vanilla JS like a pro!

For my very first job interview, I joined a rather well known company (somewhere in the mid-ranges) as an intern-frontend developer. Everything was going okay-ish. I was asked some technical questions and I answered them to the best of my knowledge, and it was all good until he came to the javascript questions.

Interviewer: So, have you worked with any frontend frameworks?

Me: Yeah, I usually work with vanilla JS, but I've gotten into frameworks like Backbone and Ember.

Interviewer: I've never heard of those. Do you know AngularJS?

Me: I've dabbled aroudn with it, although I haven't gotten into it much. If you want me to use AngularJS, I can pick it up and get the ropes of it pretty quick.

Interviewer: So tell me.. what is AngularJS?

Me: It's a Javascript framework released by Google (explains what it is and how it differs from most popular JS frameworks, explains the components of Angular.. etc)

Interviewer: Well, you're wrong. It's an enhanced html for web-apps. ( or some bullshit he quoted off the front-page of the then angularjs.org homepage )

I finally ended my first side project ever. I challenged myself to write a Tetris game in vanilla JS (with the less possible lines of code), some algorithm was tougher than I expected (2d array hell) but I made it ! 500 lines of JS code, I feel I could refactor some stuffs now...

AngularJS is dead. React is dead. Vue.js is dead. I guess you got to switch to the new awesome framework called Vanilla JS!

The more depressed you get over the current state of software is how you know you made it.When you start making your own opinions and say"wow these people are full of shit"

Primary example, the web development overblown bullshit. Fuck me dude, you really don't need that full featured react, vue, angular framework to make sense of shit. You are going over the top for fucking ajax functionality and state management that you could do by yourself without needing to learn a full framework, by the time you finish learning react you probably would have been better served with standard vanilla af JS and server side rendering.

Our world is full of fads and many talented people that perpetrate them. Its fine, it is a the nature of the beast. But a lot...A LOT of software is very POORLY written. And adding levels of abstraction over a very broken paradigm (web in this case) does and will not make it better.

Basically I am fucking hating being a web developer and want to go back to a time in which we cared about how much memory consumption our applications made as well as not worrying about the fucking frontend having the ability to implement machine learning.

I want to run sublime.exe and being sure that it is a native application to my system and not using a fucking contained web browser to implement my fucking text editor. With 20mb of ram at most instead of 500mb WTF.

I knew I made it when I could read comments on Hacker news and reddit and say "this idiot is full of shit", I knew I made it when I would sigh heavily at the idea of having another project rather than having a fan girl attitude towards it.

I knew I made it when people writing about software development meant shit to me rather than the wonder of what the fuck they were talking about.

I knew I made it when getting laid was more important to me than fucking around with code.

pussy > code
Fuck you.

So I watched this video that tries to convince people, that the jQuery library isn't really best practice anymore and showed how you can achieve basic tasks with vanilla JS, aswell as some frameworks (Vue, React, Angualar) and how they handle interactions with the DOM.

It also talked about how nearly every JS question on SO has top answers using jQuery, and how that's a bad thing.

But what I found in the comment section of this video was pure horror: So-called "Developers" defending jQuery to the death. Of course there were some people who made some viable arguments (legacy code, quick & dirty projects), but the overwhelming majority were people making absurd claims and they seemed quit self-confident.

GOSH!

Want an example?
Look:

I come from PHP and have been using jQuery as a crutch for years. I've dabbled in Node and obviously writing some vanilla JS is unavoidable, but now I'm starting to use ES6 with Babel and VueJS and the more I dig in, the more I hate javascript. Everything is an object (null, array), there seems to be a few gotchas with math (including the one pictured), nothing is strongly typed but types are very important (for instance, you can't loop an object and an array using the same code), and there are a lot of inconsistencies/functions missing. ucwords for instance. Why doesn't that exist? typeof only returns object, but Array.isArray and Object.isObject work fine. I'm going to give typescript a go soon and cross my fingers.

I'm the only one here that still uses jquery instead of some angular/react/vanilla/random JS frameworks?

Any reason to use js framework than vanilla one? Is it the same reason as bootstrap and css?

Time to rant about JavaScript tutorials.

If you don't know the 'jQuery basic arithmetic' joke, Google it now. It'll make you laugh, promised.

In that manner i just remembered a JavaScript tutorial my fiancee tried to follow when she did an internship at the company i work for last year.

She was tasked to create a temperature interface for our server rack, which she wanted to do via an Arduino and a webserver aswell as an SQL database.

The Arduino part wasn't really a problem, but since she had no experience with js she very closely clinged to a chart visualisation tutorial.

All of that worked very well, but beeing the person i am i looked at the code and found something off.

The chart library had no dependencies to external libraries or any local files for any of them. Though the tutorial used a jQuery import.

So why did it use jQuery?
Well...
To load the chart initialization after the page has loaded.

So they pulled the entirety of jQuery in just to do what fucking window.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded',function(){...}); could have done.

I wonder how many people who just want something to work did this shit. I hate it that so many tutorials do not adhere any kinds of standards, override behavior because they don't like it, even though it may have a very good reason to exist, pull entire libraries in for something vanilla <language> can do in 3 lines, etc.

Fuck.

I recently ranted so much about languages but here it goes

JS we need to talk. BECAUSE YOU GOT FAT AND UGLY STUPID BITCH! Dumb piece of bloatware. What even is your problem? Depending on a library for strpad and then blow up like Steve jobs ego. Bastardized fuckfest. I used to like you bro and then you screw me over!
It's like you fuck my wife while I try to fix your car. Why can't you even be usefully on your own anymore? I'd be richer than bill gates if I get a dollar for every damn framework people pull from their asses. Are you writing this fuck while shitting so you can compare colors of your outcome?

Normalize the fucking base, don't add to the bukkakke! bitch is drowning already. Why is everyone jerking of to react and angular? When have YOU written something in vanilla the last time? Why even bother? Remove the core and hardcore every damn framework into the browsers. Guess that saves you 200kb. Oh wait I forgot that's about unminified jQuery.

Now I need to load about 2GB of dependencies, some creating code that puts code in my code to load code out of my code which was generated out of something that remotely resembles JS so every browser is able to execute my fancy shit. But hey, it's fast. And of course there are the fanboys. You are worse than apple fags. You sample your own jizz with your friends in a wine glass. there was a Time it was bad practice to mix logic and view. Now you made it mandatory. "Browser does the rendering" ofc you imbecile pile of fuck don't show me a damn preloader for 1 picture and 20 lines of text. Who fucked your brain so hard?

So react seems to be the cool kid now, then I tell someone I know angular it's like showing up in a pikachu onsie to a formal dinner with the queen.

I used to love you girl. I loved how we could dirty things together. Now you are like a pig. Please loose weight bby the sight of you disgusts me nowadays

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Why the hell does every single frontend job on Earth require expert knowledge of React, a fad JS library that will be forgotten in 5 years?

For extra credit: when was the sage advice of "keep content, appearance, and behavior separate" overruled in favor of "use JavaScript for literally everything"? Have I been in a coma for the past 3 years?

Look, I understand the appeal of separating code into repeatable components. I just don't understand why essentially the same thing can't be accomplished with vanilla JS, which is ten times easier to understand and doesn't require an entire website to be written in some make-believe offshoot of Ecmascript that will look like hieroglyphics a decade from now.

There are also seemingly no positions that offer people a platform to start applying React to real world scenarios. I've seen the "understand React in 5 minutes" articles. Wow, super cool, you used 30 lines of JavaScript to render a "Hello world" div. The possibilities are truly endless.

But seriously, how does this shit work? Where do I go to learn the mystical art of offloading every single one of a website's responsibilities to JavaScript? How do I use React to build an actual functioning website, and at what point will it save me time or increase my productivity instead of just pissing me off?

Tried to use vanilla JS, 2 hours into it and after googling stuff : Fuck it, I'll use JQUERY

So I always start learning JS frameworks and end up getting confused by their syntax among other things. Do you guys know of any good websites to learn vanilla JS? My problem is that I probably don't know enough of vanilla and end up getting flustered.

Why do people mix JS vanilla with framework syntax? That's horrible.

Why do people use jQuery anyways? There's no need at all anymore. It is just dumb JS for dumb devs.

Did that trigger you? - well....

Can we please eliminate React?
I was interviewing lately and the lady asked if I knew react, I said no and I don't want to. She then asked what the hell I use for front end... As if react is the only thing you can use... Ehm hello we still have vanilla JS and jQuery in the house. Which are better, faster and easier to use for like +90% of all Web projects out there...

Not using vanilla js for simple function

Angular is still a pile of steaming donkey shit in 2023 and whoever thinks the opposite is either a damn js hipster (you know, those types that put js in everything they do and that run like a fly on a lot of turds form one js framework to the next saying "hey you tried this cool framework, this will solve everything" everytime), or you don't understand anything about software developement.

I am a 14 year developer so don't even try to tell me you don't understand this so you complain.
I build every fucking thing imaginable. from firmware interfaces for high level languaces from C++, to RFID low level reading code, to full blown business level web apps (yes, unluckily even with js, and yes, even with Angular up to Angular15, Vue, React etc etc), barcode scanning and windows ce embedded systems, every flavour of sql and documental db, vectorial db code, tech assistance and help desk on every OS, every kind of .NET/C# flavour (Xamarin, CE, WPF, Net framework, net core, .NET 5-8 etc etc) and many more

Everytime, since I've put my hands on angularJs, up from angular 2, angular 8, and now angular 15 (the only 3 version I've touched) I'm always baffled on how bad and stupid that dumpster fire shit excuse of a framework is.

They added observables everywhere to look cool and it's not necessary.
They care about making it look "hey we use observables, we are coo, up to date and reactive!!11!!1!" and they can't even fix their shit with the change detection mechanism, a notorious shitty patchwork of bugs since earlier angular version.

They literally built a whole ecosystem of shitty hacks around it to make it work and it's 100x times complex than anything else comparable around. except maybe for vanilla js (fucking js).

I don't event want todig in in the shit pool that is their whole ecosystem of tooling (webpack, npm, ng-something, angular.json, package.json), they are just too ridiculous to even be mentioned.

Countless time I dwelled the humongous mazes of those unstable, unrealiable shitty files/tools that give more troubles than those that solve.

I am here again, building the nth business critical web portal in angular 16 (latest sack of purtrid shit they put out) and like Pink Floyd says "What we found, same old fears".
Nothing changed, it's the same unintelligible product of the mind of a total dumbass.

Fuck off js, I will not find peace until Brendan Eich dies of some agonizing illness or by my hands

I don't write many rants but this, I've been keeping it inside my chest for too long.

I fucking hate js and I want to open the head of js creator like the doom marine on berserk

No matter how many frameworks and supersets I try, I always conclude that nothing beats vanilla JS. ES6 in particular is such a beautiful language, and I love having fine control over what happens under the hood.

When I'm done I can just transpile it to whatever ES version, although it's slowly becoming a non-issue.

Been spending the past month and half learning first vanilla Js, and then node.js, now I'm almost at the point, where I can finally start my project 😀

purist web developers be like

The past few days ive been looking into angular.

Its a bloated piece of crap. It makes your page twice the fucking size and adds tons of unneccessary code with shit syntax. Whatever you do in angular can be done in a normal language, even fucking vanilla javascript. Stop fucking making unneccessary frameworks for js developers who are too lazy to learn a proper language.

Learning jquery after four straight years of vanilla js makes me feel really dirty.

So I'm coming out of one that has a focus on this stack (JS [JQuery after weeks of Vanilla JS drilling in our heads, React], Java, MySQL, Python [Django, Bottle], HTML/CSS, and a few web security concepts (XSS, SQL injections).

The whole course has been 4 months learning, 3 weeks working on a final project. Next week is the presentation, so I think I can safely comment on the course.

We moved fast, but that's to be expected. Lecture in the mornings, exercises in the afternoons, assignments due at the beginning of each week. Constantly working towards it and improving. I have been working pretty hard. We were given some help, but had to get a lot of answers online (based God StackOverflow), but that's part of it.

We touched on some concepts like inheritance in JS, Python and Java, OOP and to be open to concepts we don't know so we should be thirsty for that knowledge.

In my off time, I've begun texting myself Node and really trying to double down on React because it seems useful. I realized I was more drawn to the backend, but I was comfortable in front end as well. (Just don't ask me to design anything, my eye for aesthetics/CSS sorcery is terrible.)

The overall experience has been pretty mixed, but we were mostly unsatisfied. We weren't given then help we were promised. The explanations weren't exactly crystal clear, so we would have to teach ourselves and each other quite a bit. We worked together a lot. Some people really fell behind, some caught up, some flew ahead and thrived. (I'm somewhere between caught up and thrived, I recognize where I stand.)

I'm happy I did a bootcamp, they aren't miracle programs, but they at least kick you into place that you are learning and need to continue to learn. (Just kinda wish I had done a different one.)

Feel free to ask about anything concerning it!

Lesson learnt. Never use vanilla bootstrap with react js

What a coincidence. JQuery gets an update to 3.4.0 - and I removed the JQuery dependency that a mid-sized widget (15 kB minified) needed.

Rewriting the selector, css and trim stuff was easy. Each, children, append, empty, remove and extend were not too hard. Animations gave me more headache, but in the end, JS triggered CSS transitions worked nicely.

I was able to shave off the usual 30 kB over the wire for JQuery, and the whole thing seems snappier. Finally, I'm at vanilla everything!

Of course, it's largely due to JQuery's merits that vanilla JS is where it is today. So, thank you JQuery, and farewell.

Client insisting on Vanilla JS instead of using a existing framework to design a reporting dashboard, because "first I want to build one dashboard page and see how people react to It and what all changes they want. Once we have complete picture in mind we will go for a framework". Sure, let's do the entire work twice for peanuts.

I'm really not sure. When I was 7-8 years old, I liked to view source in IE, then I somehow managed to use Javascript in the browser. First only some dumb opening of windows. And I liked Batch, so I made some files for copying, backup and stuff.

Then I got to PHP during the years from some online tutorial about making dynamic websites. My website was more static than stone, but yeah, I did page loading with PHP! Awful experience anyway, because I had to install Xampp, get it work and other stuff. 11 years old or so. (and I used Xampp only as a fileserver between laptop and desktop later, because.. PHP4... just no.)

As 12 years old or so I experienced my first World of Warcraft (vanilla) on a custom server in an internet cafe and I thought it's a singleplayer game. When I found out that no, I googled how to make my own server (hated multiplayer back then and loved good games with huge storylines). Failed miserably with ManGOS, got something to work with ArcEMU. There I learned some C++ basic stuff, which I hoped would helped me to fix some bugs. When I opened the code I was like: "Suuure." and left it like that. I learned what a MySQL database is, broke it like four times when I forgot WHERE and still rather played with websites i.e. html, css, js and optionally php when I wanted to repair a webpage for the server. With a friend we managed to get the server work via Hamachi, was fun, the server died too soon. Then I got ManGOS to work, but there wasn't really any interest to make a server anymore, just singleplayer for the lore. (big warcraft fan, don't kick me :D )

I think it was when I was 13y.o. I went to Delphi/Pascal course, which I liked a lot from the beginning, even managed to use my code on old Knoppix via Lazarus(Pascal). At this age I really liked thoae Flash games which were still common to see everywhere. So I downloaded .swfs, opened and tried to understand it. Managed to pull some stuff from it and rewrite in Pascal. Nope, never again that crap.

About the same time I got to Flash files I discovered Java. It was kind of popular back then, so I thought let's give it a try. I liked Flash more. Seriously. I've never seen so much repetitiveness and stupid styling of a code. I had either IDE for compiling C++ or Pascal or notepad! You think I wanted my code kicked all over the place in multiple folders and files? No.

So back to Pascal. I made some apps for my old hobby, was quite satisfied with the result (quiz like app), but it still wasn't the thing. And I really thought I'd like to study CS.

I started to love PHP because of phpBB forums I worked on as 15 y.o. I guess. At the same time I think there was an optional subject at school, again with Pascal. I hated the subject, teacher spoke some kind of gibberish I didn't really understand back then at all and now I find it only as a really stupid explanation of loops and strings.

So I started to hate Pascal subject, but not really the lang itself. Still I wanted something simpler and more portable. Then I got to Python as hm, 17y.o. I think and at the same time to C++ with DevC++. That was time when I was still deciding which lang to choose as my main one (still playing with website, database and js).

Then I decided that learning language from some teacher in a class seriously pisses me off and I don't want to experience it again. I choose Python, but still made some little scripts in C++, which is funny, because Python was considered only as a scripting lang back then.

I haven't really find a cross-platform framework for C++, which would: a) be easy to install b) not require VisualStudio PayForMe 20xy c) have nice license if I managed to make something nice and distribute it. I found Unity3D though, so I played with Blender for models, Audacity for music and C# for code. Only beautiful memories with Unity. I still haven't thought I'm a programmer back then.

For Python however I found Kivy and I was playing with it on a phone for about a year. Still I haven't really know what to do back then, so I thought... I like math, numbers, coding, but I want to avoid studying physics. Economics here I go!

Now I'm in my third year at Uni, should be writing thesis, study hard and what I do? Code like never before, contribute, work on a 3D tutorial and play with Blender. Still I don't really think about myself as a programmer, rather hobby-coder.

So, to answer the question: how did I learn to program? Bashing to shit until it behaved like I desired i.e. try-fail learning. I wouldn't choose a different path.

After all this time it's back to the basics mhm? Maybe yoloing PHP via SFTP to a single machine along with few thousand LLOCs of vanilla JS wasn't such a bad idea after all...

Hey DR! I am a pretty inexperienced programmer who's learning about JS. When I was writing vanilla JS to do some simple DOM manipulation, JS seems like a pretty familiar language. However, when I start to learn about different frameworks (React, Express), the way that they code stuff (IDK how to pinpoint specific examples, it's just an overall impression) becomes very different from my experience with other programming language. I am wondering if anyone have any suggestions, have felt the same way, or know how to overcome this phase.

ps This is a general question. Please don't be pissed for lack of technical detail....

I've been working on the ecommerce website from hell for over a year now. I should have heard the alarm bells when the studio who were running the project took a month to pay my deposit but still expected me to start working, but I explained that I wouldn't start without some form of security and they were cool with it, so I carried on.

It started off as a simple build with simple products, no product variations etc and a few links on the designs which appeared to lead to external links, and checkout and cart pages were nowhere to be seen. It wasn't a big money job so I just build them in as plain and straightforward as I could, in line with how the rest of the site looked. They then changed their mind about how they wanted these to look, and added loads of functionality to the site throughout the build, so by the end of the line, the scope of work had completely changed. I also had loads of disagreements in terms of design and useability, as their designs straight-up weren't going to function otherwise, plus every round of changes meant that I had to prolong the job further and fit it around work for other clients.

Fastforward a few more months and I get sent a really angry email with some of the client's complaints, including one that raised an issue with the user journey, and the finger of blame was pointed at me. The user journey had been a part of the designs from the start, and this was never raised as an issue for A WHOLE YEAR. They then said that it had to go live on Monday (three days after they sent email with these huge new structural changes). I told them I could no longer work on the project but was happy to waive the rest of my fee (3/4 of the total fee, when I had essentially completed the site, minus 2 minor bugs), so they could find another developer in the limited time they had. At first they refused to hire another developer, claiming that it would be too expensive, which made no sense, as for a few minor fixes and out of scope additions he could get paid a wage that would have otherwise paid for the majority of the work I had done on the site. I stood my ground and finally they found someone, so I sent over all of the files and database to their new developer and asked him to give me a heads up when I could remove the staging site from my server. The next day, I received an email from the studio asking me to fix some bugs the developer was requesting I fix so he could carry on with the site. They were basically asking me to work more, for free, to enable him to walk off with the majority of the money and do less work. They also forwarded a suuuuuper shitty, condescending email from him, listing all the things he thought was wrong with the site (he even listed 'no favicon' although they'd never supplied a graphic for this). He also wrote a paragraph at the bottom EXPLAINING MY JOB TO ME and telling me:

I get the feeling you like to write Javascript, while being one of the easiest languages to learn, it can also be one of the hardest to master. While I applaud you for writing Vanilla JS, it looks like you have a general problem with structuring your application.

Not sure if I'm being oversensitive here but it felt so patronising, and i couldn't even go for an angry walk to get it out my system because of social distancing lol.

Let a girl quarantine in peace!!!!!!

Hearing "do this , do this like this, that like that" every day removes passion from programming I had before. Now I'm starting to get deeper into javascript and to learn backend, and I'm working on a CMS with NodeJS and MySql backend, and vanilla JS on the client side. I like the architecture I had, and really like how I started working on it. Passion is back!

I started a new project and only use PHP, HTML, CSS and vanilla JS. No Frameworks. No React. No Vue.

The browser loads the page instantly, there is virtually no loading time and it just works.

Progress on my sudoku application goes well. Damn, what is javascript fantastic. While the code of the previous version that I posted here was alright I did decide that i want to split code and html elements after all. I have now a puzzle class doing all resolving / validating and when a field is selected or changed, it emits an event where the html elements are listening to. It also keeps all states. So, that's the model. puzzle.get(0,1).value = 4 triggers an update event. It also tracks selection of users because users selecting fields is part of the game. I can render full featured widgets with a one liner. Dark mode and light mode are supported and size is completely configurable by changing font-size and optional padding. So far, painless. BUT: i did encounter some stuff that works under a CSS class, but not if I do element.style.* =. Made me crazy because I didn't expect that.

I'm getting caught up on my personal project because I need to generate a lot of Dynamic HTML using JS and it's just a pain. I hate adding dependencies to a project, especially personal projects with no deadlines, so tomorrow I will be writing a vanilla templating system, and hopefully that will un-funk me.

!rant

For a bunch of application redesigns that we are doing at work I am letting the other two developers in my department help with selecting the stack. Normally, we work with Java and PHP, and while they seem to enjoy php I find them concerned at the possibility of making it more Java centric.

So I compiled a list of examples of different tech stacks that are not only more modern (cuz our Java stuff is old JSP stuff) but also simple to learn and use. Mind you, the point is to make this a gradual change, not just rewrite the entire house from scratch.

the list contained examples in:
Python: django and flask

Ruby: Ruby on Rails

Java: Spring Boot

Golang: Small self made mvc framework I built, nothing fancy on it, it uses templates and shit, didn't make it api centric

Node: Express examples in both vanilla JS and TypeScript

php with Laravel.

Since we work with php most of the time as well I imagined that they would be more inclined for Laravel, but I was wrong :P they seemed to like the Node Express route and the Golang route more than anything else with Python and Django being close.

Personally I know that there is more to selecting a stack, but initial perceptions make for a lot of things in selection of the stack.

Pretty excited, if they gauge everything considered in regards to what we have and we found Golang to be a clear winner it would give them the chance to add a nice and competitive tech to their resumes.

not a rant, or anything per se, just wanted to share some stuff with y'all

DOM manipulation using vanilla JS is now "Low-level web programming"? 💀

Betrayals and Affairs ..

After trying development with vanilla js, then with the help of jQuery, then AngularJS, then Angular, then Vuejs, then React,

I spent the last 3-4 years of my life loving React and devoting all my frontend projects to React. React was so simple and straightforward and I ... I committed to it

but, I recently checked out Svelte, and maybe i shouldn't have let curiosity take the better of me but i did and, im heartbroken to say, I can no longer love react the same way. as nice as react was, like in any relationship, we had some ups and downs, i got bothered by some little details that i learned to live with, but Svelte .. Svelte solved these little twirks and it just felt even simpler...

I created a new Vite project today, and it asked me what framework to initialize, and i kept hopping between React and Svelte. for 10 minutes i was thinking of all the history i shared with React, of how scary it is to commit to something new, but i clicked on Svelte.

I know i may have betrayed a commitment to React, but sometimes things pile up and i .. I had to listen to my heart

Forgive me and thank you for reading my confession

Why do people hate jQuery so much? 30KB is basically nothing in times of modern bandwidth and for me CSS selectors are mich more readable than the Vanilla JS functions.
Im not judging and would be happy if someone explains it to me or shows better alternatives.

When I met her she was just plain html, I took my time and styled her with love, I never loved intruders so I kicked bootstrapCss outta the way,

made my custom queries, and with some vanilla JS she looked like the DOM of my dreams, but now our relationship has grown through the users(years) and things are becoming more object oriented and it feels like I'm no longer in control, first it started with jQuery and some Sass and maybe I thought we could get along, but then came React and his Routers and though they said they'll be partners, 😅😅
Now I know they ....
FEEL FREE TO GIVE THE PERFECT ENDING 😊

PHP why do people hate you ? personnaly i like React but i prefer vanilla js 😍
Can anyone tell me why people hate PHP. He is a good guy, i think 😅
exit;

Lost 2 days with a non-highlighted error.
Vanilla JS:
Calling a function with a lower case character which shouldn't be lowercase.
I didn't never understood why neither VSCode nor Chrome showed the error.

So i'm visiting the JavaScript bubble every now and then when i'm writing on the userscript i develop to fix bugs in our ticketing system or fix some clients website they negelected. Every time i'm searching for answers to the weird problems that inevitably turn up i have to filter out all the threads that derail with the classic 'google jQuery basic arithmetic plugin' craziness to find an actual vanilla solution to my problem.

All the time i wonder why on earth people put up with this framework hell. This is part serious question and part rant but seriously, how did we come to this? With all that jQuery, React, Node, whatever stuff i'm kinda losing the overview over what's even todays standard. I always try to keep my code as vanilla as possible without using external libraries. But it seems the entire web development industry is heading the completly other way. I tried to look into a few frameworks but i never really see the appeal. Just now i looked up react native because the last 20 rants talked about it and immediately noped out because they fucking create a DOM in js, why the fuck would you do this?!

Worst thing about this framework shithole is that some frameworks are beeing pulled into the mix for very weird and unnecessary reasons. Best example is a charts library i recently used to visualize a database of temperatures that was completely written in native js but pulled jQuery in for the equivalent of window.addEventListener('load',function(stuff)) and i was furious. I rewrote the code and could throw out the jQuery dependency with no problem. What the fuck is wrong with people?

Alright since you made it here: I'm not trying to throw any of you under the bus for using frameworks. I just fail to understand why you would use these. To each their own and unless your site has the performance of the ticketing system i use at work that takes like 15 seconds to load one fucking page i won't complain at all. But pull in a framework just to do a task you can easily do in native js in remotely the same timeframe you are on my list.

Oh man vanilla js can still be fun to play around with. Back to the basics...

So, my favourite language is Python, and for web developing I use Pyramid, and to stay in my "comfort zone" I use brython for client scripting, don't take me wrong, I love javascript, but for just a bit of performance lost I like being able to use all my pre-existing python code if I need to...
So, this was my first work experience, for a military industry, we had to make a service for uploading big files and sending them via email.
I heard one thing that shot me out of my "comfort zone" (I'll call it cf from now on)... "Use php"...
So, I already had written in php and I've always disliked it, perl-ish and broken as a bethesda game (i like bethesda games, but they are broken)
Another thing: javascript vanilla or jquery, never liked jquery either, so I decided to use vanilla js...
So, after 6 months of work, my partner and I finished it...
Well, more than one year later that mess we had to make to satisfy our boss' most absurd desires is not online yet, I search it on google every month, so yeah, 6 months of my life wasted (also, it was a "stage", so not only I didn't get any recognition, but they didn't give me any money)

I need to performance monitor our web app. I have been working on some speed improvments since some of our customers have complained. My boss wants me to be able to produce stats which he can use (and abuse) to highlight to customers that we have got quicker. I am currently looking at blackfire for PHP profiling to help with speeding things up but I need a top site overview for everything. Our stack is PHP (no framework), JS (jquery + vanilla), MySQL on Windows mainly. On premise solutions would be good since we don't traditionally run in the Cloud. Our system isn't SaaS and is installed on dedicated data centre servers or on premise

I am a fresher in web development. I have already learnt to use nodejs, react, angular, vanilla js and made many projects. Majority of the work I feel is just CRUD based, sure there are some exciting things but they are only of a small percentage.

All that innovation HAPPENING is just glorified way of making a CRUD APP ONLY.
Oh mvc worked great on server side let's bring it to client side
OH mvc is such a mess, who thought about doing this.
Oh react redux is so revolutionary let's remake our app using it,,
Oh es6 fuck yeah, Babel, webpack sure, now my crud app is super performant.
Oh graphql, motherfucking cutting edge CRUD APP......

I need to know what's next, is there any breaking of this cycle

I feel like I know what I shouldn't know. I know a little about using jQ and JS (mainly little plugins) but I can't code js from scratch.

I use vanilla html and css and my environment is notepad++.

I feel like I should know SASS, Pug and use Webstorms or some other professional IDE. And learn js.

Which preprocessors do you prefer? Which IDEs and which point to start learning js from scratch?

!rant

I'm a rather young developer, self-learned everything and started when I was 13 (now 20) but I still feel like I'm a total beginner since I have not yet mastered the things I am OK at.

Php (laravel, since it makes things much easier), js (jquery, bad at vanilla, have used angular and ember but not mastered), node, linux, html, css, photoshop, illustrator, sql, mongo and windows servers

I know little about many things, can create things that are asked of me but the methods I use are rather bad imo.. ex: I finish coding a section of a site, but when I need to add a new feature I find myself rewriting most of the stuff to add the new feature and in the end still feeling like the code could be optimized further, even though I have no idea how.

TL;DR I write bad code, but things work as long as I am monitoring them. I know little about alot of stuff but mastered none of them.

What should I do? Go to school for programming?

Aspiring freelance/junior web dev here, I'm familiar with WSGI (using Flask), some PHP, Apache, JSON, and Vanilla JS. What other technologies should I be learning to make myself more marketable?

Why haven't I learned about js fetch before now. I've even used socket.io!

Fetch is amazing and I just built a function for using fetch with WordPress AJAX hooks. Yes I know it's WordPress and there's jQuery but all of my custom plugins use vanilla js as a little fuck you.

Oh yeah but ie doesn't support it at all

Question: We are planning to transition our old ES5 codebase to modern ES6/ES7 and even typescript.

What would be the build tool you would recommend if we want to start supporting ES6/ES7 and even Typescript?

Webpack, Vite some other?

This is a vanilla Javascript Project with large codebase it's been built using custom build tools like UglifyJS and UglifyCSS and of after lots of begging it finally got the green light to move to a more modern build tool and start supporting a more standard JavaScript Features.

Mainly I want to move to TypeScript but transition would be slow so the build tool would need to support .ts and .js as well, that is traspile both the .ts and .js into one final production build.

What build tool would you recommend for that?

Why is it that homelessness is suddenly more appealing to me than programming two Remote Desktop connections deep with a template engine no one has ever heard of before and vanilla JS to manipulate the DOM.

Question to all JS Frontend Devs: What light and performant library can you recommend me today?
I'm a C++ dev who is a bit anxious about performance, load times etc. and before I stuck my nose into vanilla js, maybe there is something better/faster. I'm a total frontend noob, e.g. I heard that html tables aren't a thing anymore and that I should use divs?
My task is quite simple, I want to give the users the ability to press some buttons and drag and drop stuff around instead of modifying the URL per hand :/
So if someone could point me in the right direction, that would be awesome!

Customer complain about errors reported on their content on their website.
Checking their content in WordPress and they was adding a script to include jQuery and another js with html tags.

So trying to understand why jQuery is required and on a 100 lines js vanilla, was used on line 3 to get an attribute of an element.

And they was breaking a site for this.

Fuck FE development. Tweaking or adding some stuff is OK, but making the whole FE from zero is a pain for me. Vanilla JS is OK, but I need to use Angular, which I don't know how to use properly. Generally, right now I find FE as a big confusing mess... Why Angular? Because fuck React - it is even more confusing. I just can't keep all these things in my head... You want to add something? Fine, add a dependency, import, export it, import again, that shit does not work alone, so you import another shit... IDE says it's all good, look it's up and running! But you open the app and it's not even loading because of errors. Another module missed, ffs. IDE can't really save you here, sigh...

I am a BE dev, I am straight out bad at FE. I don't hate FE, but I hate that I am forced to do it and I need to do it fast, without having time for learning it.
Ughh... I feel somewhat better now :\ Now back to making there modules work...

The fun times, watching the little weenie down voting the guy who thinks vanilla js is better than jQuery. Here I thought devs were meant to be more intelligent, yet somehow a 30kb wrapper for js is better than js itself...

When you finish a project that abuses vanilla js and canvas for real-time updates on tables generated from drag actions in a graphic (no raphael, paperjs or konvas) and test it in IE 😄
Thank god it's going to be applied in a controlled environment... a real browser can be used 😇

HOLY FUCK! Why is JS world so fucking confusing? I haven't even started learning it and its already giving me a headache. I feel like there are a billion different things i have to learn that aren't just "vanilla js". All i want to do is learn some web dev, take on freelance work, become a digital nomad. Im a simple C++ and ios/android developer things are so straight forward. JS seems like a clusterfuck of just stuff 😧 Id like to say this isnt a my language is > than yours rant. This is a "like what the fuck" rant. My brain was like Html, Css, JS cool thats all i have to learn... boy was i wrong. Can someone give me a word of wisdom as i go down this apparent rabbit hole?

How do you feel about using TypeScript with React? I appreciate the benefits, but, as every snippet of React code everywhere on the web is vanilla JS,I just don't want the cognitive overhead.

Yes, I know TS is JS, but, if I'm not going to use the features, why bother? I'd want to strongly type props, state, etc.

What's the status of TypeScript support in the React ecosystem (eg Router, MUI, etc.)?

I'm kinda hoping Reason will get some traction as the type inference is much better, but, will that happen? Or is that going to fizzle so it's a choice between TS and JS?

Appreciate any thoughts on this---including those from anyone who's in the same boat.

Looking for views on TS in React ecosystem---no need to sell me on TS in general.

The one in which I am rn is the reason why so many people dislike php, jquery and Java on the server.

Then previous to this one, classic ASP for the web interface and our desktop components were delphi (OLD ass delphi)

Mind you, these are all tech stacks that I do like (php, java and O Pascal in particular) but really dislike in:

php: we have just your standard procedural spaghetti php on some old ass shit.

Classic ASP: Same as with php, no proper structure, made more apparent by the intense limitations of VBScript, I did enjoy the language tho, had it evolved better It would have been more tolerable, but the hoops i had to take to build a propee API in it....boooooy that shit was an eye opener.

Delphi: Not bad in itself, but the original dev had a shit notion about how architecture should work.....or what architecture is for that matter.

The Java one: this shit was coded when Spring was already an alternative to just fucking around with JSP, or any other framework for that fucking matter. Dude tried....TRIED to implement design patterns in it and it failed on every single fucking component. Worst of all, it was coded in such a shit way that during certain...err...conditions, the bottleneck proved too massive of an ubdertaking and the app chokes and needs to be restarted ... constantly

their use cases for jquery are not bad, but loading all of jquery for the shit they mostly do could have been easily done with just standard vanilla JS.

I got more, but thede are just from the top of my head

I love php, mind you, but shit like this makes me see why some people GREATLY dislikes it.

I alsp have some old web forms in c# and vb net that I loathe, funny enough the code for thise in vb.net is more elegant, almost as if it were from a different developer.

Managing countless dependencies makes me wonder if we can escape the madness and return to the simplicity of vanilla JS. Must be better than being doomed wandering the labyrinth, right? 🤔🔄🕸️

Should I move up to typescript from vanilla Js for mostly framework-web?

Angular Vs React Vs Vue for an e-commerse website?
Please, don't hold back.. :)

i'm starting to like reactjs over vanilla, but i can't help but remember how it suffers on npm's dependency hell. i mean just look at what happened before at left-pad. it makes you feel like the entire system is so fragile.

Why do people love using jQuery so much? 🤮

alright i know this is not the right place and all but I'm running out of options nothing from so works for me i need to start a download by calling a POST method in my api tried using a form and some ajax but nothing working anyone can give pointers ? (vanilla js jquery no framework)

New employee joining the company next week. Where should she start on JS?

New employee is joining the company I work for next week, and I have the responsibility to teach, train and give her tasks. It is my first time training someone so I really have no idea how to do this. :P

She knows a little bit of Vanilla JS. Our projects are built with AngularJS (v1) with ES6, Webpack & Babel, ReactJS & jQuery. I want to put her on the project using AngularJS.

What order of learning do you recommend? VanillaJS, AngularJS & ES6? AngularJS & ES6? Or if you have any other suggestion, feel free to let me know.

Thank You.

Hello council of elders.. or should I say "console"? Heh? Heh? I've been up for a long time sorry.

Anyway. I've started learning framework stuff. Angular right now. Been long overdue tbh. And I found a free course on udemy and followed it. It's cool and everything but I gotta ask...

Why can't I just use vanilla js and everything from scratch? I'm not sure if its the course I'm using (I'd appreciate more resources. Thanks) but I feel like it's a lot of effort. Is there something I'm missing or haven't learned yet?

It might sound stupid please let me know why it's better to use that than regular methods. Apparently it's meant to make stuff easier but I feel like it's just a lot linking files and making various things in different places.

Also. Other stupid question which might just be cause of the course but like... Is it mostly just for manipulating json??

Thanks. More questions to come soon!!

Really trying to tutor my friend so he can land a front end position. He's currently working in fast food and is about to be hit by crippling student loan debt. Is there anything better I can do to give him a hand? I'm fairly entry level myself but I know what I'm doing. I've started teaching him Git and told him to focus on knowing HTML and CSS, and to use vanilla JS if he wants to practice.

He's still really early on, like trying to figure out which elements have hrefs and trying to remember the difference between classes and IDs. Think I'll be able to coach him into an internship offer by the end of the year?

been working on a to do app that uses local storage for the past one week. first mistake was using vanilla everything to build, i forgave myself, now I keep adding features upon features and breaking more code and fixing.
I learnt a lot like immutability of imported js(why? for christ's sake)
vanilla js made the code 3x longer so I had to componentize the javascript. the first day I did this was pure torture, spent a whole day tracing errors and undefined code and what not. js is easier to manage now. still cant stop trying to add new features. I feel like the problem is that I didn't make a clear goal and plan it out. I just keep crunching out new code when I see something fancy elsewhere. I'll be disappointed if I didn't complete this.

I still haven't done anything presentable on the ui. cant pull out now

"Ultimate beginner" guides that leave you hanging, because it isn't a beginners guide!

Trying Firebase (coming from vanilla JS) and it works fine in local enviroment. Tries it on server: nope. That environment is different, with different paths and multiple "roots" (addon domains).

Google that? Sure. Nobody has had this issue. Stackoverflow doesn't seem to know (or care).

"Ultimate beginner" guides that leave you hanging, because it isn't a beginners guide..

Anybody here know the "Nyet! Rifle is fine!" meme?
Yeah that's how I feel about all the JS framerks and bloat and all that instead of Vanilla JS.

Why TF is it easier to make a modal component with vanilla js compared to react? Like is ReactDOM the only way to add shit dynamically?

How many languages does one have to learn...? Learnt C, C++ and Java because of college courses. Learnt HTML, CSS, and vanilla JS because I wanted to learn frontend. Now learning R for big data analytics. Today, I came to know that I need to learn more Java or start learning Python for Hadoop...!!
😧😵

It seems they mistaken me for italian giving me spaghetti all over the product. Go to frontend to check the app, react with weird jQuery, no routes, pages summoned by the templates that have concatenated values and html in vanilla js, changing screens/pages with jQuery, no router... ok lets see the other app, react, redux, offline capabilities and tought myself niicee hut nothing work as intended with clusterfuck of hacky workarounds that makes app look like it is working but with hardcoded data. Offline means automatic sync when you get the network back, right? Oh backend never developed any sync, so you guys can do it, we have to fix and patch some important stuff! I don't like php but whatever, let's see what is going on there... So much spaghetti bolognese there that Bologna actually called to ask if they can buy some, they are out of stock because of us!

This is just like that song mess.css from stdout, but in any file you open!

Living on deserted island eating grass and coconut for the rest of the life doesn't seem so bad atm!

A year ago I built my first todo, not from a tutorial, but using basic libraries and nw.js, and doing basic dom manipulations.

It had drag n drop, icons, and basic saving and loading. And I was satisfied.

Since then I've been working odd jobs.

And today I've decided to stretch out a bit, and build a basic airtable clone, because I think I can.
And also because I hate anything without an offline option.

First thing I realized was I wasn't about to duplicate all the features of a spreadsheet from scratch. I'd need a base to work from.

I spent about an hour looking.
Core features needed would be trivial serialization or saving/loading.

Proper event support for when a cell, row, or column changed, or was selected. Necessary for triggering validation and serialization/saving.

Custom column types.

Embedding html in cells.

Reorderable columns

Optional but nice to have:

Changeable column width and row height.

Drag and drop on rows and columns.

Right click menu support out of the box.

After that hour I had a few I wanted to test.

And started looking at frameworks to support the SPA aspects.

Both mithril and riot have minimal router support. But theres also a ton of other leightweight frameworks and libraries worthy of prototyping in, solid, marko, svelte, etc.
I didn't want to futz with lots of overhead, babeling/gulping/grunting/webpacking or any complex configuration-over-convention.

Didn't care for dom vs shadow dom. Its a prototype not a startup.

And I didn't care to do it the "right way". Learning curve here was antithesis to experimenting. I was trying to get away from plugin, configuration-over-convention, astronaut architecture, monolithic frameworks, the works.

Could I import the library without five dozen dependancies and learning four different tools before getting to hello world?
"But if you know IJK then its quick to get started!", except I don't, so it won't. I didn't want that.

Could I get cheap component-oriented designs?

Was I managing complex state embedded in a monolith that took over the entire layout and conventions of my code, like the world balanced on the back of a turtle?

Did it obscure the dom and state, and the standard way of doing things or *compliment* those?

As for validation, theres a number of vanilla libraries, one of which treats validation similar to unit testing, which seems kinda novel.

For presentation and backend I could do NW.JS, which would remove some of the complications, by putting everything in one script. Or if I wanted to make it a web backend, and avoid writing it in something that ran like a potato strapped to a nuclear rocket (visual studio), I could skip TS and go with python and quart, an async variation of flask.
This has the advantage that using something thats *not* JS, namely python, for interacting with a proper database, and would allow self-hosting or putting it online so people can share data and access in real time with others.

And because I'm horrible, and do things the wrong way for convenience, I could use tailwind.
Because it pisses people off.

How easy (or hard) would it be to recreate a basic functional clone of the core of airtable?

I don't know, but I have feeling I'm going to find out!

Browser automation is a PITA. I’m going on my fourth side mission with this crap and I honestly still look like a newbie. I’ve tried Java Selenium with Chrome, Excel VBA with IE9, Vanilla JS in the browser console, and tonight I’m thinking to concoct some kind of hybrid CDP & Selenium approach in Chrome. Never used CDP before, not even sure where to start but I heard it sucks like anything else unless you get some extra libraries and plugins and stuff.

It doesn’t help that I can’t get just anything I want from our IT Department. It would be another PITA to ask for puppeteer. If puppeteer is totally legit please let me know.

Selenium sucks. The buttons don’t click, the waits don’t wait. Its unusable. Iframes are annoying as all hell but I can deal with that. HTML Tables suck too. It doesn’t help I have to restart my whole java program and whole Chrome every time an element doesn’t get picked correctly. Scripting one single element can take all fucking night.

Chrome dev tools what the fuck. Why the fuck is the DOM explorer in the same window as the web page I’m working on?? I can’t undock it. Am I supposed to use a fucking TV screen to work with this bastard?? If I use the remote chrome tools on port 9225 or whatever - It Still Renders The Whole Fucking Page Alongside The Console. Get Out Of My Way!!! The nested HTML CODE IS ONE CHARACTER WIDE ALL THE TIME. I can’t for the life of me figure out what the fuck I’m looking at. Haven’t you people ever heard of A HORIZONTAL SCROLL BAR at least.

Fuck I tried using getElementById, and the Xpath thing and its not all that great seeing I have seemingly 1000s of nested Divs all over the god damned place oftentimes containing a single element. I’m finally on chrome now should I learn Jquery now? I mean seriously wtf.

I use this one no code tool for dev it has web automation built in. As you can imagine its just as broken as anything else!! I have 10 screens to navigate it gets stuck on the second screen all the damn time. Fuck I love clicking the buttons when my script misses and playing catch up with it.

So as a work around to Selenium not waiting even 1 millisecond when I use explicit wait or implicit wait or fluent wait, I’m guessing maybe I can attach both Chrome Dev Tools Protocol (CDP as ive called it earlier) and selenium to the same browser and maybe I can use CDP to perform a Wait with any degree of success. Selenium will do nothing more than execute vanilla javascript Element.click(); This is the only way I know to even ACTUALLY use selenium beyond the simplest html documents possible. Hell I guess CDP can execute js idk.

I can’t get the new selenium that has CDP but I do have some buggy ass selenium from a few years back. Yeah, I remember reading there was a pretty impactful regression defect in the version I have. Maybe I’m being gaslighted by some shit copy of selenium?

The worst part is that I do seem to be having issues that the rest of the internet’s devs do not seem to be having. People act like browser automation is totally viable and pretty OK. How in the fuck hell is my Selenium Test Suite going to be more reliable my application under test?!!?? I’ll have more fucking bugs in my test suite than in my application. Today, I have less than half a test script and, I. already. fucking. do.

I am still SUPER PISSED at the months of 12 hour days (always 8 hours spent on normal sprint work btw only 4 to automation) I spent trying to automate our regression tests. I got NOWHERE.

I did learn a lot about HTML and JS though like I’m not that mad…but I’m just trying to emphasize my achievement on my task was zero.

The buttons don’t click. There are so many divs and I swear you sometimes need to select a div somewhere in the middle sometimes to get it working. The waits don’t wait. XHR requests are invisible. Java crashes 100 times before I find an xpath and thread.sleep() combo that works. I have no failure modes to use — Sometimes I click the same element 20x in a script because I have no way to know if it clicked the first time! Sometimes you gotta scroll the page to make the click work. So many click methods all broken. So many wait methods all broken. Its not just the elements don’t click! There are so many ways to click that almost work but surely they all fail the same in the end. ok at this point I’m just repeating myself…

there yet even more issues that I can’t remember…and will soon remember as I journey into this project yet again…

thanks for reading I hope I entertained and would love to hear your experience!

Searching for simples game using canvas + vanilla ES6 and best practices.
Turn out it's very hard to find well-written javascript, so far most of the resources found are spaghetti code.
So if you know any good github page, blogs or tuto, feel free to share! Thanks :D

(how) is it possible to run a shell command from a websites javascript? i am aware of the well known security issue but have a use case where i can assume it less critical. currently using ie11 activex which is fine but not supported on other browsers and hell i want not to be dependent on ie! tried to find it myself of course but without success.
in detail i want to print several pdf files with one click based on a javascript array using plain vanilla js.
am i missing something or am i out of luck?

firstly, does anyone know of an online telegram or whatsapp group where i can ask silly stuff regarding web dev and get immediate answers, just like it is here?

secondly i am trying to learn js and there are just too many related terms that are messing with my brain:
"some features are supported ines5/es6/es15/es16/es17 , some are supported in chrome's v8/chakra/spidermonkey/android browser , some features are only supported in "serverside" and blocked in all browsers thanks to browser's vm environment; babel can't read this code, some features are provided only by node js..."
WHAT THE MESS IS THIS?

All i am trying to do is to write code that would make a website visible to everyone. if by specific browser , i want to target, chrome and its subsidaries and android chrome/other android browsers .
for other browsers am willing to make external converters later but don't want to change my code by 1 bit. And from what i know, each browser (at least the browsers am thinking of supporting) has the complete JS compilers already built in

can i or can i not built a complete functional website with those things?

and finally my main question : how to make custom exceptions in vanilla js? i saw this answer on stack overflow:
===================
function InvalidArgumentException(message) {
this.message = message;
// Use V8's native method if available, otherwise fallback
if ("captureStackTrace" in Error)
Error.captureStackTrace(this, InvalidArgumentException);
else
this.stack = (new Error()).stack;
}

InvalidArgumentException.prototype = Object.create(Error.prototype);
InvalidArgumentException.prototype.name = "InvalidArgumentException";
InvalidArgumentException.prototype.constructor = InvalidArgumentException;

Usage:

throw new InvalidArgumentException();
var err = new InvalidArgumentException("Not yet...");

=====================================

where is the error code? what would be the exception details? what is the line number/timestamp of error?why is that function making an error, i thought error/exception is a class in JS?

!rant

I prefer to write desktop applications or mobile applications (android). Only time I touched web-applications so far was for school.

Tbh, I hate it the way have to do it in school. vanilla js, no css framework, JSP backend (sometimes php 5.4) and that rounded up with eclipse indigo.
Let's not even talk about the fact that we never really talked about js or css in school, so that was even harder for me too begin with (still suck at both of them imo)

I can't express my gratitude for js and css frameworks. They make web development much more fun for me.

💖 laravel, vuejs, materializecss💖

Feel free to suggest me other things, I only completed 2 project with these

Hey errrbody!!!

I'm banging out a couple "showcase" mobile apps for practice, portfolio, and/or as potential templating tools.

I have no issue writing the code, I just wanted to see if I could get a couple pointers as far as user databases go. I'd like to have some "user profile" features generated from a FB...vlike profile images, name, address, contact, yadda yadda yadda. I usually use Firebase, but I am still having a little trouble with the more advanced stuff when it comes to integrating users profile data. I can get values from Google and whatnot, but I'd like to see what my other options are on the smaller scale.

I am currently writing code in Flutter/Dart, ReactJS( not native!), Vanilla Js, Python, and CPP.

I know there's options for client side storage like Shared Prefs, Sqflite, etc, as well as server/DB side stuff like Firebase, Aws, Mongo, Node, SQL, etc- you get the idea.
I just want something with decent documentation that's reliable, not a massive undertaking (at least not for all this little stuff, anyways) and could potentially be a go-to platform configuration in the future. It'd be cool to wire in my Flutter and js shit of possible, bit honestly I'm cool with having separate setups for the time being. Any extra input regarding the use of python and/or cpp as well (either separately or with mobile) would be rad as fuck!!!
I do realize it's a pretty vast area to cover, but I figured it couldn't hurt to see what everyone likes to use for full-stack setups.
Thanks!!!!

I just spent the last half-hour fishing a bug that happened to be caused by excessive react code lately. 😭😭😭
I wrote onSubmit in a vanilla JS file rather than onSubmit😭😭😭😭

Integrating Algolia with Firebase cloud functions and a solid Js/Ts framework (or even Vanilla Js!) is definitely mint fuckin titties, I highly recommend checking it out if that's a solution you need.

🔥🔥🤘🏻👽🤘🏻🔥🔥

How do you know when you’re overengineering something? Like, you look a project and know you can build this with vanilla JS but the creative team wants it built in React because “components are better”. What do you do?

I love and hate javascript. I set out to do a fully ajax/state driven form interface that operates with multiple interdependent data objects which all extend a base class.

React/Angular may have been a better call but I just didn't have time so I needed to rapid prototype in jquery /vanilla JS.

I'm in the midst of learning and refactoring all the ajax calls to promises and then to async/await, so it's a huge learning experience...

Meanwhile I've got to build objects to represent the data on the backend which is all legacy OScommerce/PHP

Hell of a ride.

I recently joined a project team in my company whose client is a BIG (and I mean BIG) tech company.

We offer marketing solutions to the client. This means we create websites that showcase the company and all the good stuff that they do.

When I was going through my ramp-up meetings, my lead gave me some dummy projects to build just to get an idea of where I stood as a web developer.

So, it was one of those Photoshop mockups that were to be made entirely using vanilla JS, CSS3, HTML5 and nothing else.

There came many points where I had to align items either horizontally or vertically. So, I used flexbox to do it.

I submitted my code to the lead and while going through it, he commented, "Why do you use flexbox? It is no good. Use float instead." And I looked at him in utter confusion.

Tell me, is it wrong to use flexbox? Should I have used float instead?