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Search - "crud"
Fuck the memes.
Fuck the framework battles.
Fuck the language battles.
Fuck the titles.
Anybody who has been in this field long enough knows that it doesn't matter if your linus fucking torvalds, there is no human who has lived or ever will live that simultaneously understands, knows, and remembers how to implement, in multiple languages, the following:
- jest mocks for complex React components (partial mocks, full mocks, no mocks at all!)
- token cancellation for asynchronous Tasks in C#
- fullstack CRUD, REST, and websocket communication (throw in gRPC for bonus points)
- database query optimization, seeding, and design
- nginx routing, https redirection
- build automation with full test coverage and environment consideration
- docker container versioning, restoration, and cleanup
- internationalization on both the front AND backends
- secret storage, security audits
- package management, maintenence, and deprecation reviews
- integrating with dozens of APIs
- fucking how to center a div
and that's a _comically_ incomplete list; barely scratches the surface of the full range of what a dev can encounter in a given day of writing software
have many of us probably done one or even all of these at different times? surely.
but does that mean we are supposed to draw that up at a moment's notice some cookie-cutter solution like a fucking robot and spit out an answer on a fax sheet?
recruiters, if you read this site (perhaps only the good ones do anyway so its wasted oxygen), just know that whoever you hire its literally the luck of the draw of how well they perform during the interview. sure, perhaps some perform better, but you can never know how good someone is until they literally start working at your org, so... have fun with that.
Oh and I almost forgot, again for you recruiters, on top of that list which you probably won't ever understand for the entirety of your lives, you can also add writing documentation, backup scripts, and orchestrating / administrating fucking JIRA or actually any somewhat technical dashboard like a CMS or website, because once again, the devs are the only truly competent ones - and i don't even mean in a technical sense, i mean in a HUMAN sense of GETTING SHIT DONE IN GENERAL.
There's literally 2 types of people in the world: those who sit around drawing flow charts and talking on the phone all day, and those WHO LITERALLY FUCKING BUILD THE WORLD
why don't i just run the whole fucking company at this point? you guys are "celebrating" that you made literally $5 dollars from a single customer and i'm just sitting here coding 12 hours a day like all is fine and well
i'm so ANGRY its always the same no matter where i go, non-technical people have just no clue, even when you implore them how long things take, they just nod and smile and say "we'll do it the MVP way". sure, fine, you can do that like 2 or 3 times, but not for 6 fucking months until you have a stack of "MVPs" that come toppling down like the garbage they are.
How do expect to keep the "momentum" of your customers and sales (I hope you can hear the hatred of each of these market words as I type them) if the entire system is glued together with ducktape because YOU wanted to expedite the feature by doing it the EASY way instead of the RIGHT way. god, just forget it, nobody is going to listen anyway, its like the 5th time a row in my life
we NEED tests!
we NEED to know our code coverage!
we NEED to design our system to handle large amounts of traffic!
we NEED detailed logging!
we NEED to start building an exception database!
BILBO BAGGINS! I'm not trying to hurt you! I'm trying to help you!
Don't really know what this rant was, I'm just raging and all over the place at the universe. I'm going to bed.20
I recently gave an interview in a software company, and was rejected cause I took half a minute to connect my webcam and turn on my video 🤷.
I had just moved into an apartment at that time, so my place was not well managed. I attended the meeting in time but didn't have my webcam turned on. They asked me and it just took half a minute for me to turn on and start the meeting. Everything went well there, and they asked me to complete their coding challenge which was a development task. It was a huge task where I had to build a full-stack app (frontend + backend) with basic crud and auth features. I completed that in 2 days and presented it to their tech lead. He loved my work, he was impressed that I was able to complete their challenge in such a short time.
They said they will get back, and after a few weeks, they said that I was rejected. I reached out to ask for constructive feedback on why I was rejected and they said:
“Communication during the interview - interview
preparation: the video wasn't available at the start and needed to check the headset at the start of the meeting” 🙈7
When wrote some abstraction,
commented out the old stuff,
replaced it with the new calls
and after it passes all tests
get to remove all the old crud.
( ☼ ◡ ☼ )
I feel clean again.5
Ngl I'm glad I found this community full of people who complain. I'm not even joking I'm legitimately glad that I can complain without being reprimanded lol8
* Calls themselves "Software Engineer"
* Doesn't know what a thread is.
I swear these coding boot camps are churning out code monkeys whose real skill is building shitty React apps.
I believe a CS degree is necessary if you want to work on something more than CRUD applications.
Nothing against devs without degrees, but at least make an effort because my head will explode next time I have to explain to someone what a thread is and why it's a very bad idea to run blocking code on the main thread.27
In january 2023 i was contacted by a recruiter offering me a job position.
I DID NOT ASK FOR A JOB.
I WAS NOT LOOKING FOR A JOB.
THEY contacted ME.
Ok. So i went along with it and see how it goes. They probably wont hire me nor would i give a shit. Chatted with this recruiter for a while. She forgets to answer my message for 5 fucking days. Twice. Once because she was doing God knows what and the second time because she was on paid vacation. Fine i don't give a shit about you at all anyways.
So this recruiter chatting has been stretched out for several days. I think over a WEEK. So she forwarded me to their lead developer.
I applied to work as a full stack java spring boot backend + angular frontend engineer.
- java backend
- angular frontend
- full stack
- shitload of devops
- shitload of projects i built
- worked with clients
- have CS degree, graduated
- worked a job at their rival company
What could go fucking wrong with all of these stats right?
During technical + hr interview (3 of us on google meets) they asked me what salary I'd be comfortable with.
I said $1500/month straight out.
keep in mind:
- In my country $500 or $600 is a salary for engineers per month
- You get a raise of +$150 which is around $750 after working for 1+ year
- You can earn $1000+ after you work for +2 years
- Rent here is $200-300 a month at minimun. And because of inflation its just getting worse especially with food. So this salary is not for living but for survival.
Their lead engineer gave me a WHOLE ASS FUCKING PROJECT TO BUILD and i had to code it within 10 days. Great so at least 17+ days of my fucking life to waste on these fucktards who contacted ME.
The project was about building a web app coffee shop literally what mcdonalds has when you order via those tablets. I had to build this in java spring boot and angular. I had to integrate:
- docker, devops
- barmen, baristas, orders
- people can order at the table or to go
- each barista can take 5 orders at a time
- each coffee has different types of fields and brewing time
- each barman brews each coffee different period of time
- barista cant take more than 5 orders for to go until barman finishes the previous order
- barista can take more than 5 orders but if those orders were ordered from table, and they have to be put in queue
- had to build CRUD admin functionality coffee's
- had to export them all of the postman routes
- had to design a scalable database infrastructure for all of this alone
- shitload of stuff more
And guess what. After 10 painful days I BUILT THE WHOLE THING MYSELF AND I BUILT EVERYTHING THEY ASKED FOR. IT WAS WORKING.
Submitted it. They told me they'll contact me within 7 days to schedule the final Technical interview after they review what i built. Great so another 17+7 days of my fucking time wasted.
OH and they also told me to send them THE WHOLE GITHUB REPOSITORY AND TRANSFER OWNERSHIP TO THEIR COMPANY'S OWNERSHIP. once you do this you cant have your repository back. WTF? WHY CANT YOU JUST REVIEW THE CODE FROM MY PUBLIC REPOSITORY? That was so weird but what can i fucking do argue with these dickheads?
After a week of them not answering i contacted them via email. They forgot and apologized. Smh. Then they scheduled an interview within 3 days. Great more of my time wasted.
During interview i was on a google meets with their lead engineer, 1 backend java spring boot engineer and 1 angular frontend developer. They were milking me dry for 1 whole fucking hour.
They only pointed out the flaws in what i built, which are miniscule and have not once congratulated me on the rest of the good parts. I explained them i had to rush those parts so the code may not be perfect. I had other shit to do in my life and not work for your shitty project for $0/hour for 10 days you fucking dickriders.
So they quickly ran over to theory. They asked me where is jwt token stored. Who generates it. How the backend knows to authenticate user by it. I explained.
What are solid principles. I said i cant explain what is it but i understand how it works, why its needed and how to implement it (they can clearly see in the project i just build that i applied SOLID principles everywhere) - but i do admit i dont know the theory behind it 100% clearly.
Then they asked me about observables and promises in angular. I explained them how they work and how subscribe method is used (as they can clearly see that i used it in the code). Then they asked me to explain them under the hood of how observables work. The fuck? I dont know and dont care? But i can learn it as i work there?
Final result: after dragging this for 1 fucking month for miserable $1500/month they told me: we can either hire you now but for a much lower salary which you probably wont be happy with, or you can study more these things we discussed "and know why the car leaks oil" and reapply back to us in 2-3 months!25
Our boss did always the same thing. When there was a BIG potential customer who indicates a small interest in our software, then he lied constantly about features. After the customer bought our software we got a deadline and should develop the missing features. I could remember two features: The first one was a quote tool for a car transport company. The tool should estimate a price for a transportation from an email with no structure and the other one was an API which should be possible to write dynamicly to MySQL, MariaDB, Postgres, MSSQL, DB2, Mongo or better said any possible dbms. The API should guess the structure of the dbs and offer CRUD actions. The funny thing is must write the api with go. Yeah dynamic and GO.
At some time, we told him we wont make any overtime and if the deadline is not possible we told that immediatly the customers, so that they call him. Thank god I don't work anymore in this company.1
Unpopular opinion: unit tests are often overrated.
Although a well written test suite is almost essential in some parts of the application (I.E. business logic) I cringe when I see hundreds or thousands of line which “mocks” everything to test a micro service which just does CRUD operations on a database, in cases like that unit tests are just a waste of time because almost every operation involves a mock which may not behave like the real database and often needs to be rewritten when the code undergoes a huge refactoring. In these case a integration test suite is faster to write and way more helpful.7
The first job I had, asked me to build a simple CRUD functionality in CodeIgniter (It was popular in 2017).
I wasn't able to understand the framework and its ins and outs.
(I only knew Core PHP at that point).
It took me 3 days to finish the task and I got yelled at by the team leader because of it and I almost broke down crying. At that point I was convinced that web development career isn't for me.4
TL;DR; do your best all you like, strive to be the #1 if you want to, but do not expect to be appreciated for walking an extra mile of excellence. You can get burned for that.
They say verbalising it makes it less painful. So I guess I'll try to do just that. Because it still hurts, even though it happened many years ago.
I was about to finish college. As usual, the last year we have to prepare a project and demonstrate it at the end of the year. I worked. I worked hard. Many sleepless nights, many nerves burned. I was making an android app - StudentBuddy. It was supposed to alleviate students' organizational problems: finding the right building (city plans, maps, bus schedules and options/suggestions), the right auditorium (I used pictures of building evac plans with classes indexed on them; drawing the red line as the path to go to find the right room), having the schedule in-app, notifications, push-notifications (e.g. teacher posts "will be 15 minutes late" or "15:30 moved to aud. 326"), homework, etc. Looots of info, loooots of features. Definitely lots of time spent and heaps of new info learned along the way.
The architecture was simple. It was a server-side REST webapp and an Android app as a client. Plenty of entities, as the system had to cover a broad spectrum of features. Consequently, I had to spin up a large number of webmethods, implement them, write clients for them and keep them in-sync. Eventually, I decided to build an annotation processor that generates webmethods and clients automatically - I just had to write a template and define what I want generated. That worked PERFECTLY.
In the end, I spun up and implemented hundreds of webmethods. Most of them were used in the Android app (client) - to access and upsert entities, transition states, etc. Some of them I left as TBD for the future - for when the app gets the ADMIN module created. I still used those webmethods to populate the DB.
The day came when I had to demonstrate my creation. As always, there was a commission: some high-level folks from the college, some guests from businesses.
My turn to speak. Everything went great, as reversed. I present the problem, demonstrate the app, demonstrate the notifications, plans, etc. Then I describe at high level what the implementation is like and future development plans. They ask me questions - I answer them all.
I was sure I was going to get a 10 - the highest score. This was by far the most advanced project of all presented that day!
Other people do their demos. I wait to the end patiently to hear the results. Commission leaves the room. 10 minutes later someone comes in and calls my name. She walks me to the room where the judgement is made. Uh-oh, what could've possibly gone wrong...?
The leader is reading through my project's docs and I don't like the look on his face. He opens the last 7 pages where all the webmethods are listed, points them to me and asks:
LEAD: What is this??? Are all of these implemented? Are they all being used in the app?
ME: Yes, I have implemented all of them. Most of them are used in the app, others are there for future development - for when the ADMIN module is created
LEAD: But why are there so many of them? You can't possibly need them all!
ME: The scope of the application is huge. There are lots of entities, and more than half of the methods are but extended CRUD calls
LEAD: But there are so many of them! And you say you are not using them in your app
ME: Yes, I was using them manually to perform admin tasks, like creating all the entities with all the relations in order to populate the DB (FTR: it was perfectly OK to not have the app completed 100%. We were encouraged to build an MVP and have plans for future development)
LEAD: <shakes his head in disapproval>
LEAD: Okay, That will be all. you can return to the auditorium
In the end, I was not given the highest score, while some other, less advanced projects, were. I was so upset and confused I could not force myself to ask WHY.
I still carry this sore with me and it still hurts to remember. Also, I have learned a painful life lesson: do your best all you like, strive to be the #1 if you want to, but do not expect to be appreciated for walking an extra mile of excellence. You can get burned for that.
After working with a bunch of people it occurred to me that almost anyone can work and learn for most IT positions. This is something that most people will realize, especially if they work with newbies that learn on the go. There are exceptions of course, but most companies are just making crud apps with their business logic.
What I wonder then is, why is it that the way hiring is done seems to be completely against this idea? Rather than whining about recruiters and bad interviews, I am curious about why this is so common. What is it that a lot of companies think or see that make their hiring process so bad or convoluted?11
Jesus, I'm SO fed up with this mindless application of CRUD. This application would literally be less than half its current size if we weren't implementing crud for fucking broken device reports and repair offers, stuff that should have many states, a create action strictly bound to a user type and view/field wise edit phases bound to a state-usertype pair.
RethinkDB is such a rediculous overengineered BIGGEST BULLSHIT I HAVE EVER UNFORTUNATELY USED.
Does anyone even use this total shit????
This shit eats RAM memory for just 1 CRUD operation as if you opened 10,000 google chrome tabs. Who the fuck thought that kind of technology is a good idea?
Yes it IS very fast, a real time database. But you'd have to have a multi-million dollar supercomputer to be able to handle so much data like a relational database can....5
When the CTO/CEO of your "startup" is always AFK and it takes weeks to get anything approved by them (or even secure a meeting with them) and they have almost-exclusive access to production and the admin account for all third party services.
Want to create a new messaging channel? Too bad! What about a new repository for that cool idea you had, or that new microservice you're expected to build. Expect to be blocked for at least a week.
When they also hold themselves solely responsible for security and operations, they've built their own proprietary framework that handles all the authentication, database models and microservice communications.
Speaking of which, there's more than six microservices per developer!
Oh there's a bug or limitation in the framework? Too bad. It's a black box that nobody else in the company can touch. Good luck with the two week lead time on getting anything changed there. Oh and there's no dedicated issue tracker. Have you heard of email?
When the systems and processes in place were designed for "consistency" and "scalability" in mind you can be certain that everything is consistently broken at scale. Each microservice offers:
1. Anemic & non-idempotent CRUD APIs (Can't believe it's not a Database Table™) because the consumer should do all the work.
2. Race Conditions, because transactions are "not portable" (but not to worry, all the code is written as if it were running single threaded on a single machine).
3. Fault Intolerance, just a single failure in a chain of layered microservice calls will leave the requested operation in a partially applied and corrupted state. Ger ready for manual intervention.
4. Completely Redundant Documentation, our web documentation is automatically generated and is always of the form //[FieldName] of the [ObjectName].
5. Happy Path Support, only the intended use cases and fields work, we added a bunch of others because YouAreGoingToNeedIt™ but it won't work when you do need it. The only record of this happy path is the code itself.
Consider this, you're been building a new microservice, you've carefully followed all the unwritten highly specific technical implementation standards enforced by the CTO/CEO (that your aware of). You've decided to write some unit tests, well um.. didn't you know? There's nothing scalable and consistent about running the system locally! That's not built-in to the framework. So just use curl to test your service whilst it is deployed or connected to the development environment. Then you can open a PR and once it has been approved it will be included in the next full deployment (at least a week later).
Most new 'services' feel like the are about one to five days of writing straightforward code followed by weeks to months of integration hell, testing and blocked dependencies.
When confronted/advised about these issues the response from the CTO/CEO
(A) "yes but it's an edge case, the cloud is highly available and reliable, our software doesn't crash frequently".
(B) "yes, that's why I'm thinking about adding [idempotency] to the framework to address that when I'm not so busy" two weeks go by...
(C) "yes, but we are still doing better than all of our competitors".
(D) "oh, but you can just [highly specific sequence of undocumented steps, that probably won't work when you try it].
(E) "yes, let's setup a meeting to go through this in more detail" *doesn't show up to the meeting*.
(F) "oh, but our customers are really happy with our level of [Documentation]".
Sometimes it can feel like a bit of a cult, as all of the project managers (and some of the developers) see the CTO/CEO as a sort of 'programming god' because they are never blocked on anything they work on, they're able to bypass all the limitations and obstacles they've placed in front of the 'ordinary' developers.
There's been several instances where the CTO/CEO will suddenly make widespread changes to the codebase (to enforce some 'standard') without having to go through the same review process as everybody else, these changes will usually break something like the automatic build process or something in the dev environment and its up to the developers to pick up the pieces. I think developers find it intimidating to identify issues in the CTO/CEO's code because it's implicitly defined due to their status as the "gold standard".
It's certainly frustrating but I hope this story serves as a bit of a foil to those who wish they had a more technical CTO/CEO in their organisation. Does anybody else have a similar experience or is this situation an absolute one of a kind?2
I hate CRUD operations so much.
I'm so tired of programming CRUD demo applications and then filling it with some logic only in services. It's so ugly. No domain model. Just entity, repository, service, controller.
I hope I'll be able to work on something better soon, but cmon, why are we forced to work like this.
I've recently started reading book about DDD and it's at least a bit more interesting than just writing some fancy API for database8
What Linux distro is best for development?
I'm thinking of making a persistent USB with a Linux distro on it for programming so I don't have all my video games and stuff at my fingertips at all times to reduce distraction.28
Who/what are y'all's favorite coding related YouTube channels? Mine are Kalle Halden and NetworkChuck.7
Was having a conversation with a dev friend and he said, in every tech implementation, we are more or less doing CRUD operations at fundamental level.
To which, I agree with as there are three layers to tech
2. Front end where the data is rendered
3. APIs to perform CRUD on data
Want to understand community's thoughts on this..13
I hate the fucking Spring WebFlux and the goddamn Project Reactor on which it depends!
Even debugging a simple CRUD microservice with simple business logic is such a pain in the ass, exception handling has a lot of "magic" implicit stuff which makes me waste hours in fucking trial & error and I have to use very little breakpoints because if a request is paused for more than few seconds it gets terminated.
I love functional programming but why shove it in fucking Java making me waste 90% of my time in trying to guessing what the fucking framework is doing, why not just use Scala which runs in the JVM? We don't even need compatibility with legacy code since it's a greenfield project!
And before you ask yes, I read a fucking book about Project Reactor and Java reactive programming and a lot of docs on Spring, Spring Boot and Spring Web Flux.2
Of course I came down with a frickin fever during my first hackathon and missed the last like 14 hours of it. Smh.6
Participating in an online hackathon in a few days. Still don't have a single person on my team lol6
I wish I thought about what kind of work makes me happy before I graduated school. Feels like I'm pigeonholed into soulless backend crud, and the amount of force required to escape this trajectory is non trivial.1
I have a question I'm struggling with for some time.
In spring boot application should service method accept DTO or entity?
I see benefits of using entity for basic CRUD operations, but how about business logic methods? I'd like to hide details behind abstraction and also block any incorrect usage of this method, like:
I have a method "restrictOrder" which alters an order and saves it. But someone can modify order object before passing it. Should I only pass id and new value to be set or am I paranoid?
And how do you do it in your project? I'd like to point that right now we are not using DDD or some other fancy architecture, just the Spring defaults7
It's not GDPR compliance unless it comes from the GDPR region of Brussels.
Otherwise it's just a sparkling high latency CRUD API over Email enforced by law.3
I'm mad I didn't find out about skillshare in 2020 I would be so good at python by now... I was using some ude.y course that I didn't like dude skillshare is so much better in so many ways.4
I may need some ideas for a personal project in mind:
I plan to have a server that shall connect to a usb stick/device, the usb is plugged to a TV. The usb device can create its own local wifi network which provides CRUD on media files via REST. My own server should be accessible via the internet, but at the same time connect to the local usb wifi, once the usb wifi is available, and then send requests to it. Kind of a user-friendly bridge.
There's a PC near the device, almost always turned on. It's used by family members as regular office machine and could run a local server. What if as remotely accessible server? Then what about DOS attacks? (Would that "kill" the PC?)
An alternative would be a separate server. A raspberry pi? A dedicated server?1
Looking for good literature regarding CRUD. Basically i want to have a list of possible dataoperations nowadays. And the relations to commands like Copy, Paste, Search, List, Undo Redo, Macros etc. Any suggestions?16