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Search - "low salary"
I got a call from the recruiter today and she asked me for my current salary. When I told her, she replied "Based on your experience and skill set, that's too low".
"That's why I am looking for a job"
I cried internally 😥8
To all young freelancers in low-income countries: I want to share my experience, of 6 years working for a piss-poor country, and 6 years working in freelance, and then emigrating. Here's what you should watch out for, and what to expect:
My first salary was barely 1.5$ per hour. I lived in a piss-poor country that taught me a lot (like why it's piss-poor).
The main thing to note when you're a developer in such a country, is that you're being fucked. Your employer might scream at you and tell you how bad you are, while barely paying you. That is you ... being ... fucked. Gain some confidence with the help of friends and family, and a great effort from yourself, look at what freelance gigs you can find, and ditch anything related to jobs in your country.
Being a somewhat able developer, but with modest experience, I started my freelance gigs for 5$ per hour. Because I was lazy, and freelance gigs weren't exactly being thrown at me, I was making 100$ per week, AFTER the companies I worked for appreciated what I did and offered themselves to up my pay to 12$ per hour. Yep. I was lazy. You will likely get lazy in freelance too, so be prepared for this.
My luck changed when one of my clients became a full-time employer, at 15$ per hour, with a well organized team where I actually worked for 40 hours per week (I had already amassed 8 years of experience...). For people in first world countries that will seem laughable, but in my country I was king of the hill, getting paid more than government CEOs that ended up in the news as the "most well paid".
That was the top of the pyramid for international indie freelance, as I would later find out.
I didn't do stuff that was very difficult. In fact, I felt like my abilities were rotting while I worked there. I had to change something. So I started looking for better offers. I contacted many companies that were looking for a senior developer, and the interviews went well, and all was fine, except for my salary demands. I was asking for 25$ per hour. Nobody was willing to pay more than 15$ per hour. That's because of my competition - tons of developers in cheap-to-live countries that had the same, or more to offer, for the same rates. Globalization.
So I moved to Germany. As soon as I was legally able to work, I was hunted down by everybody. I was told that it takes a month to pass the whole hiring process in Germany. My experience demonstrated that 2-5 days is enough to get a signed contract with "Please start ASAP".
There is freelance in Germany as well. And in the US. And everywhere else. A "special" kind of freelance, where you have to reside locally. The rates that this freelance goes for is much, much higher than international freelance. I'd say that 100€ per hour is ok-ish. Some people (newbies, or foreigners who don't speak the language well) get less, around 60 or so. Smart experienced locals get around 150-200 or even more.
It's all there. Companies want good developers to solve their business problems with IT solutions, and they'll beg you to take their money if you can deliver that.
Screw the scumbags that screw you for 1-2$ per hour!
Anyone able to write something more than "Hello World!" deserves more.
Do the climb! There's literally room for everybody up there! There is so much to do, that I feel like there will never be too many developers.
Thank you for bearing with my long story. I hope it will help you make it shorter and more pleasant for you.14
You know what? Fuck this shit. We spend most of our life locked down in a school, we are being told facts, tested and stressed for many years with the only hope to get out as soon as possible.
Failing is something that keeps you there indefinitely.
Parents keep pushing on kids to achieve the best and get good grades to have a job.
Then something happens.
You get out of school and what happens?
You start working.
A.k.a modern slavery...
Employers thinks that since you are young they are doing YOU a favor if they decided to hire you.
So you find yourself having to do the same tasks everyone is doing, perhaps you are even fully capable of managing them and get the shit done but guess what!!
You are paid the minimum.
You barely make enough to pay off your rent which keeps you locked away from Holidays abroad, from that huge cake you desperately want.
And guess what! Try to raise your voice and you'll get fired in a Matter of seconds, replaced with someone else which accepts any condition.
You dream of a house, a family and a car but you can't even eat healthy with that salary.
So you are forced to buy cheap and low quality food from the same store again and again till you had enough and spend some days with that horrible feeling...
Calling you to get a job interview feels like they are doing you a favor, they always try to give the minimum possible and expect you to work in a serious manner and respect their deadlines.
Colleagues earn a lot more even though they aren't doing anything different from you.
For the first year you won't have any holiday, let alone traveling or anything different from just staying home for 3 days straight.
Banks won't give you a loan because your job doesn't pay off
The day that your car is broken you struggle to eat the whole month.
On top of that, taxes. Because they aren't taking away enough.
I don't want to live this life, I don't want to become a modern slave and work 8-17 everyday for the rest of my life and retire with a shitty retirement pension that won't probably grant me anything again.
I had enough of this shit.
I don't want to go back to work and pretend to do what I am supposed to do with a smile on my face knowing that I am just a number and that no matter how skilled I am I can always get replaced with N number of people for a lower salary of mine.
I am tired
I dream of a life that I won't ever reach this way.
Today I looked up houses prices and felt like shit.
I will never in my entire life be able to afford something so expensive, let alone buying furnitures and what is needed or what I like.
I dream of having my place, my dog and my family but apparently I am asking too much.
How is this even fair in 2018/2019?
I... I am... Speechless.
I wonder how many people out there are in the same situation or even worse and I can't even wrap my mind around that.
This is just modern slavery.
My boss makes a shit load of money from young people that can't complain because they are threatened and will eventually be replaced...
This is my rant.33
Sooooo me and the lead dev got placed in the wrong job classification at work.
Without sounding too mean, we are placed under the same descriptor and pay scale reserved for secretaries, janitors and the people that do maintenance at work(we work for a college as developers) whilst our cowormer who manages the cms got the correct classification.
The manager went apeshit because the guidelines state that:
Making software products
Administration of dbs
Server maintenance and troubleshooting
And a lot of shit is covered on the exemption list and it is things that we do by a wide fucking margin. The classification would technically prohibit us from developing software and the whole it dptmnt went apeshit over it since he(lead developer) refuses (rightfully so) to touch anything and do basically nothing other than generate reports.
Its a fun situation. While we both got a substantial raise in salary(go figure) we also got demoted at the same time.
There is a department in IT which deals with the databases for other major applications, their title is "programmers" yet for some reason me and the lead end up writing all the sql code that they ever need. They make waaaaay more money than me and the lead do, even in the correct classification.
Resolution: manager is working with the head of the department to correct this blasphemy WHILE asking for a higher pay than even the "programmers"
I love this woman. She has balls man. When the president of the school paraded around the office asking for an update on a high priority app she said that I am being gracious enough to work on it even though i am not supposed to. The fucking prick asked if i could speed it up to where she said that most of my work I do it on my off time, which by law is now something that I cannot do for the school and that she does not expect any of her devs to do jack shit unless shit gets fixed quick. With the correct pay.
Naturally, the president did not like such predicament and thus urged the HR department(which is globally hated now since they fucked up everyone's classification) to fix it.
Dunno if I will get above the pay that she requested. But seeing that royal ammount of LADY BALLS really means something to me. Which is why i would not trade that woman for a job at any of my dream workplaces.
Meanwhile, the level of stress placed my 12 years of service diabetic lead dev at the hospital. Fuck the hr department for real, fuck the vps of the school that fucked this up royally and fuck people in this city in general. I really care for my team, and the lead dev is one of my best friends and a good developer, this shit will not fucking go unnoticed and the HR department is now in low priority level for the software that we build for them
Still. I am amazed to have a manager that actually looks out for us instead of putting a nice face for the pricks that screwed us over.
I have been working since I was 16, went through the Army, am 27 now and it is the first time that I have seen such manager.
She can't read this, but she knows how much I appreciate her.4
Was working in small startup with great people on new projects, but for very low salary and shitty conditions.
Changed job to big company with nice salary and great conditions, but people are assholes and have to work on legacy stuff mostly.
Guess you can't have everything.1
If they immediately agreed to your salary expectations, either your expectations were low or their expectations were high (or both).
Today I decided to quit my job. Yesterday I had my yearly review couldn't be more perfect, I did everything they asked me for and more (help with recruitment, animate conferences, work very late a lot of time, work during my vacation days...) yet to be surprised that I will only have 3% raise (on a low salary). I feel not valued and I was very disappointed :(8
A few years ago, I used to work at a very small company. It was a compact team, we all got along quite nicely and work was very good too, but the salary was very low.
Then I got an offer from a big company in the big city for thrice the pay, and I understood how great an opportunity this is, and I knew I would get a lot to learn from this. So, I decided to take it.
So, when I went to my boss to hand in the resignation, he turned red and started tearing into at me and threatening me. And I was taken aback, because, he was usually so nice. He even threatened to have me kidnapped, and I was so dumbstruck, I couldn't even understand what the heck was going on.
I didn't even finish my notice period. I just went home after that, and never went back.1
Development plus laboratories is kind of my expertise, so I ended up in a little grimey HR office looking out over the factory floor of a cocoa processing facility. I was applying for an automation job, a temp thing for three weeks, updating some ugly scripts which took readings from machines and threw them into excel sheets.
"We don't think a developer like you has enough experience working in an environment like this. Safety and working in sterile conditions is very important to us"
I had sent them my certifications in advance, plus references to the work I did in a biosafety level 3 lab for JnJ and cleanroom work at an aerospace company.
There were fat sweaty guys on sneakers, taking cocoa paste samples right next to the window.
They ended up hiring a friend of mine with zero experience, for minimum wage.
Just be fucking honest, don't waste my time with courtesies and lies. If they had just told me about the low salary indication, I would still have done the work. I was in between jobs anyway, bored, trying to fill up some spare time.4
“I Pay $900 A Month for student loans.”
Not sure why there’s a video about this but let’s watch it...
*Sad music is playing*
“My name is _____ and I pay $900 a month for student loans..”
Yeah so what?
*Sad music continues*
*Woman makes a call and asks about when they’re going to make a student loan reform aggressively*
Then I realized my family was eligible for low income and I received Cal and Pell grants to pay for my tuition and living.
Then I realized that the salary for my computer science degree has numbed me to a point where $900 a month doesn’t seem too bad. Or awful. I mean I just leased a new car for my mom! And didn’t hesitate (only when having fun negotiating though).
Back then, I would be shocked. But it’s a surreal feeling to see now that I don’t. I was literally confused at the basis of this video. And now I’m surprised at my disconnect from it.
I also realized that they make videos based on how society should react to it. Am I an outcast to society because of this? Why am I not reacting the same way?
Maybe society (nowadays) would disdain me because I’ve come into high income like we all will because of our passion (and the demand for it).
But fuck society. It’s full of the very same people who use technology each and every day. Protesting for things they found trending on Twitter. The ones who refused to learn even though it’s a huge part of their lives. They’re the ones holding us back for an Engel’s Technological Utopia (idk if I’m even correct about the philosopher but anyways..)
We’re above them. We make things they’ll use and in massive numbers.
Don’t let them dictate what you should like. How you should act. Whether or not you should feel lonely while they’re posting pictures of fun times on Facebook.
We should be the ones doing that. Because we are the ones doing that.
That’s why we’re given the best to perform what we love most.
So devs, continue what you’re doing. Small or big, you’re still driving the world forward. Opening pull requests and contributing to open source projects. Answering questions on Stack Overflow not only for the person intended but for the beginner or even experienced professional who may stumble upon it later in a Google search.
And be highly rewarded for it. How society feels doesn’t matter any more when it comes to your passion. You’re important. Your work helps others in ways you can’t even imagine. We’re like one big fucking hivemind of engineers with the accessibility of the internet.
I love drinking on a Sunday!9
And so I have ranted earlier about how a panelist during my thesis defense told me that my algorithm is not an algorithm because it needs mathematical equations to be called an algorithm. I also told you guys that I facepalmed during the course of the interrogation.
Now I failed my thesis because I facepalmed. I quit school because of that but now I'm a better career person than him. I already started my freelance team and earning more than double his salary and he's still suck at being a low quality professor.7
My last job before going freelance. It started as great startup, but as time passed and the company grew, it all went down the drain and turned into a pretty crappy culture.
Once one of the local "darling" startups, it's now widely known in the local community for low salaries and crazy employee churn.
Management sells this great "startup culture", but reality is wildly different. Not sure if the management believes in what the are selling, or if they know they are selling BS.
- The recurring motto of "Work smarter, not harder" is the biggest BS of them all. Recurring pressure to work unpaid overtime. Not overt, because that's illegal, but you face judgement if you don't comply, and you'll eventually see consequences like lack of raises, or being passed for promotions in favour of less competent people that are willing to comply.
- Expectation management is worse than non-existent. Worse, because they actually feed expectations they have no intention of delivering on. (I.e, career progression, salary bumps and so on)
- Management is (rightfully) proud of hiring talented people, but then treat almost everyone like they're stupid.
- Feedback is consistently ignored.
- Senior people leave. Replace them with cheap juniors. Promote the few juniors that stay for more than 12 months to middle-management positions and wonder where things went wrong.
- People who rock the boat about the bad culture or the shitty stunts that management occasionally pulls get pushed out.
- Get everyone working overtime for a week to setup a venue for a large event, abroad, while you have everyone in bunk rooms at the cheapest hostel you could find and you don't even cover all meal expenses. No staff hired to setup the venue, so this includes heavy lifting of all sorts. Fly them on the cheapest fares, ensuring nobody gets a direct flight and has a good few hours of layover. Fly them on the weekend, to make sure nobody is "wasting time" travelling during work hours. Then call this a team building.
This is a tech recruitment company that makes a big fuss about how tech recruitment is broken and toxic...
Also a company that wants to use ML and AI to match candidates to jobs and build a sophisticated product, and wanted a stronger "Engineering culture" not so long ago. Meanwhile:
- Engineering is shoved into the back seat. Major company and product decisions made without input from anyone on the engineering side of things, including the product roadmaps.
- Product lead is an inexperienced kid with zero tech background -> Promote him to also manage the developers as part of the product team while getting rid of your tech lead.
- Dev team is essentially seen by management as an assembly line for features. Dev salaries are now well below market average, and they wonder why it's hard to recruit good devs. (Again, this is a tech recruitment company)1
I can’t tell what’s cheap anymore. This salary is making me numb and I’m forgetting my low income roots. I saw a video of a girl who rented an apartment in Seoul Korea for $500.
Is that cheap? I don’t know??? Don’t ask me???14
Attention Software Engineers!
Quit shooting yourselves in the fucking foot! And this ESPECIALLY goes to new grads. I get that you have just finished school. I get that you need a job! But don't fucking settle for a $30-$40k salary because you're "entry level"! The only reason why there are employers who offer that type of salary is because they know that there are enough idiots who will settle for it!
On average, an entry level software engineer's salary is between $50-$60k at the very least! For Senior developers, it is at least $80K/year (although an argument can be made for why they shouldn't settle for less than $100k/year).
Each time a moron low balls his/her salary, that brings down the market value for that talent. And keep this in mind! They don't have a choice but to hire you. They could choose to outsource their work to poorer countries but they don't want to do that due to obvious quality-related reasons so they HAVE TO hire you if they need the work done. And since the ball is in YOUR COURT, demand your fair salary. You went to school for 4 fucking years. You dealt with that stress for 4 fucking years. Why settle for a salary that you could've made without going to school?55
This is my first post. I felt like if I'm wrote this I'll just be a big fat crybaby, but i need to release this pressure from me.
I've been pretty burnt out past 6 month.
So a little bit backstory here, I've come from broken family, and currently on my 7th semester of college. But I've been part of small startup as mobile apps developer for a year and a half now.
6 month ago, it just a year of recovery from a toxic relationship that basically ruins my college life. I have really bad GPA (bad score for being absent from classes), basically no friends, and a barely passable (or even bad) skill in Android Dev. Then I got new girlfriend that really supportive for me. But after 2 months, her parents ask me if I would marry her or not. because if not, I have to broke up with her (We're in Indonesia and both of us is Muslim, so outside marriage relationship is kinda in "grey area" depend on who you ask). So I have to choose to marry her or not, and I choose the marriage. I think I have enough saving and just enough income to support both of us.
Then it's been a downward spiral from there.
The startup that I've been working on were in a pretty bad shape. I've been underpaid since the beginning (and that's not really a problem for me at that time, that's my choice and I blame no one) but abysmal growth and some miss management force us to scale back and makes me basically in a non-paying jobs.
So I take college break for a semester and been trying to find projects here and there for marriage savings, but because the weak employee protection here, lots of the projects I have completed have yet to pay the fee (even until today). And even if they paid me, most of it were really low paying jobs (we're talking $200 per 3 weeks project here, to be fair, for our average GDP, it's not bottom-low).
And the deadline is approaching, our marriage date is settled in (very) early January 2019, and i've been in this "not yet graduated but needs job" limbo. Most of employer here still has the old "Degree Based" Job specs, and not "Skill Based" one. so because de-jure I've still a "College Student" no Job listing is willing to take me in. I've apply to almost 30 Job Listing and just get interview once, and still failed because I can't move to the company area, too far and have too expensive living cost vs the salary ($300 living cost vs $450 salary, while i need to give money to my girlfriend back home for a living).
So I switch my direction to Competitions with Extra Job offering as a Bonus, and I've been pretty close to winning one, held by CIMB Bank, but still failed. It's little bit better now because CIMB came interested with me but there is red flag which I need to graduate with decent GPA before July 2019, and in current GPA? it's practically impossible.
Can it getting worse? oh it can. Remember I come from broken home family? it's inherently hard to keeps communication with both of my parents that to this day still despise each other. And while my mother is still supportive to my marriage, my father isn't. He even basically disowned me last week because my one-sided decision to marry my girlfriend, and blame my mother for being the "bad influence" for me.
And now, today, December 16th, and I'm still in this weird Limbo and have nowhere to go. with $0 in my pocket (have spent all of my savings for marriage preparation) And our marriage is approaching. I almost given up.23
The job market is lol
Graduated 9 months ago, working minimum wage jobs and applying to jobs, never getting an interview! I finally get a job in my field, and within my first week on the job I get calls for 4 interviews, all paying more than the job I took
On top of that my parents think my salary is way too low but beggars can't be choosers right5
This is real rant, not one of these funny stories!
So, I spent 4 years to get a Computer Science degree, and did two specializations, 3.5 years more in Uni. I have 6 years of experience working in IT, from support to programming. I also speak 3 languages.
I'm from a South America country, and now I'm living in EU.
I'm 30 now and earning a little more than a MacDonald's cashier earns in the US. I have to live in a shared apartment like a fucking Uni student. I have nothing, no car, no house, no girlfriend. WTF!
IT is a fucking lie! Profession of the future my ass!
In Uni they said that finding a good job was easy, that companies would literally grab us by the neck to work for them. LIE!
I did found a low paying job though, where at least I could learn a lot more.
People were really satisfied with my work and I even received a proposal of one of our clients to work for them, but the offer wasn't good enough.
I tried entering some big companies as a Trainee, but it was so ridiculous, they said they were looking for an IT person, but they asked things related to economy and other stuff that had nothing to do with IT. I always failed in the group work/interview, it was so ridiculous, I remember one candidate saying her dream was to work for the company since she was a child, SERIOUSLY!
When the opportunity came, I moved to EU and now I'm working as a dev. But as I said, I'm not satisfied with it! In the US the yearly average software engineer salary is about 100K, I earn less than 1/4 of it. And don't come saying that US pays more because of the cost of life, here the cost of life is the same or even more expensive, a super small apartment/loft is at least 180K, a simple new car 18K and a Big Mac costs 4€.
In the US, the average salary of someone that just graduated from uni is 60K to 70K! LOL
In EU, it's super hard for someone to earn 100K, that's why many companies are creating offices here, good workforce, 2 to 3 times smaller salary!
IT also sucks because it's too volatile, there's new stuff all the time. Someone always has to come with a new language, new framework, new library, etc etc. And you have to keep learning new stuff all the time.
Also job openings always ask for experienced people, like you must have at least two years of experience with VUE.js, or something.
Do you remember the last time you went to a doctor for a checkup, did they use a new tool, or did something different during the checkup? Probably not, the medic don't have to learn new stuff all the time, he is still using a stethoscope, he is still placing a wooden stick in your mouth to check your throat...
But in IT, almost no one nowadays is going to create code using CoffeeScript, they instead will use TypeScript.
I read an article saying that an IT professional must study 20 hours a week to keep up with new trends. So I must work 40 hours and study another 20? LOL
It's not that I don't like learning new stuff, but this sucks, I want to maybe learn something different or have a hobby.
Today I regret going to uni, I feel it was a waste of time and money. They taught things like calculus and physics that I never had to use professionally, and even programming stuff like linked lists I never had to use.
If instead I had studied dentistry or studied to be a ophthalmologist I think I would be earning more, would be working more independently and wouldn't need to keep up learning new things so much.
Also to work in IT you don't need a diploma, I read an article by a dude that learned programming by his own, did some software for his portfolio and got a job at Google.
When I read these kinds of story I regret even more going to uni, It really feels I wasted my time.
For these reasons I can't recommend going to uni to study IT, if you want to go to uni go study something else!
If you want to study programming do it on your own, there's everything you must know online for free, create a portfolio, and look for a job or even try working for yourself!
Living the life I have now, there's just no incentive to keep going.
Should I keep learning new stuff so maybe I can get a better job that will still pay low, or quit and try creating something on my own?
Or even ditch IT all together and go back to uni? LOL NO!7
Today was my last day at my old job. At my last monthly review, the CEO actually said to me how things would be much better if I were making enough sales happen on the websites to justify my (very low) annual salary. I checked the numbers on my way out the door. In the past 8 months I definitely cleared that threshold and then some. I wonder if he would've given me the next 4 months off with pay. LOL
I officially switched from Java to Python over a year ago, worked on start-ups that were horny over how fast it is to develop in Python, learned new sets of skills and tools, crafted a good-looking resume, and even converted some code from Java to Python in some projects. My salary has doubled from February 2019 to November 2019.
I still cannot believe it took just less than a year. I still remember moaning here about how I want to switch and someone gave me crap about saying I want something but not really doing anything about it.
Now I'm learning Go just in case and just for fun but also low-key "make the recruiters and CEOs horny". The client wants to speed up some of the applications and right now, back-end APIs are pretty optimized and I can still justify their performance so front-end are doing their magic with all the image loading and whatever.
But when I acquire the right skills and I'm confident with Go, maybe someday, I will just plant a seed into my boss's head and say, "You know what, Python really isn't the top choice for speed. I can try it out with Go." Then who knows, maybe in a few months, I'll be moving Python code to Go, work on another start-up that's lusting for the firm ass and titties of the year, discover more interesting things, and double my salary again.
Ah, this is just like the RPGs I used to play back then. Maybe I can sell some armors and weapons. It feels good not to be overly attached to certain tools but hey, maybe I'll find "the one" somewhere along the way and stick to it.13
High paying unstable job at a startup vs. Low paying stable job at a huge company.
I'm currently at the latter and I'm expecting a job offer (hopefully!) from the other one today.
Low paying job:
1) big name. (their stock has recently gone down tho)
2) insurance and stuff.
3) quite stable.
4) can re-skill and move to another team.
5) work from home.
1) shit technologies.
2) lots of fake "we are a family" kinda crap.
3) shit pay for a huge company.
4) boring. I feel very unmotivated.
5) obsolete systems and management processes.
6) it would take years to save for a car even with my upcoming promotion pay raise.
High paying job:
1) awesome salary. Like 6x my current.
2) up-to-date technologies. Something I'm passionate about.
3) team lead position.
4) I can buy a car in a couple of months.
5) might get a visa sponsorship in the future.
6) small team, my voice will be heard.
1) it's a startup so it can go down anytime.
2) no insurance or any kinda benefits.
3) no work laptop.
I'm kinda in the beginning of my career, so my gut is telling me to risk it and go for the unstable job.
It will be my first time to be an "official" team lead and honestly idk how I'll go about it yet.
Which one would you go for?
And wish me luck! The interview went pretty well but I'm dreading for some reason.17
My internship is about to end in two months. I was under the impression that I'll start looking for a job towards mid August and then decide what to do. I didn't expect my company to offer me a position so early before my internship ended.
Initially I had liked the place. The work was pretty relaxed and I had quite a bit of freedom. Soon enough, I proved my worth and my team started respecting my opinions and suggestions. They even consulted me on multiple occasions.
The first thing I noticed on the downside was the company, despite being resourceful enough and having a decent turnover and important clients, was quite stingy in terms of employee welfare. There was no coffee. There was machine but you had to buy the capsule for yourself. And that sucks. I know I don't need to say more but the other problems were there was no enterprise subscription (or any subscription) to PhpStorm even though our team handled so many PHP projects. I know IDEs are personal preferences but not having any professional IDEs is not something to let slide. The lead dev uses NetBeans (and not because he loved it or anything). Even though I worked on WebDev and front end, I had no option to ask for a second screen. I had one display apart from my laptop. Usually most companies in Paris provides food tickets for internships and this company did not even give me that. And worst of all, there wasn't really anyone I looked up to. As much as I enjoy responsibilities and all, I don't think I should be in an environment where I have nothing much to learn from my seniors. For some fucked sense of security and certainty, I was willing to overlook all this when they offered me a position. But I recently had my interview and the regional manager, a fuck face who still makes me wonder how he reached his position, made a proposal for some quite a small amount of salary. What infuriated more than his justifications was his attitude itself. There was absolutely no respect whatsoever. It was more like "We'll give you this, I think this is more than enough for you. Take it or do whatever you want". I asked for more and he didn't even bother negotiating. I declined the offer.
Now this would have solved all the issues. But my manager and my lead dev like me a lot. Both of them are pretty nice people. They both were bothered with the fact that I had turned down the offer. My manager even agreed that the offer was too low and had already given me tips to help me negotiate. But after I turned down the offer, she went and discussed the issue with the regional manager and he offered me a new proposal. This time it was decent but still under my expectations. I'm pretty sure I can do better elsewhere. I said I need time to think about it. I get multiple advises from people to take it atleast so that I get my visa converted to a work permit. For some reason, I want to take the risk and say no. And find something else. But today my lead dev called me aside and asked me if was going to say no. He really tried to influence me by telling me a lot of good things about me and telling me about the number of different projects we're going to start next month and all that. Even though I'm fully convinced that I don't want to work here, just the sheer act of saying no to these two people I respect is sooo fucking difficult for me that I can already imagine me working here for the next one year. The worst part is I can clearly classify their words and sentences into stuff they say to canvass me, stuff they're bullshitting about and flattery just to make me stay. Despite knowing I'm being taken advantage of, some fucked up module in my head wouldn't stop guilt tripping me. I don't know what to do. If I only I could find a really better job.
Pardon the grammatical errors if any. I'm just venting out and my thoughts branch in 500 different ways simultaneously.5
As a person from low-paying country, how do I reconcile with the fact that for the same work, and the same 8 hours, I get 1/3 of what a person in Germany does? In my previous team (same company), one of my teammates was from Germany. The same team, the same work, but he happened to earn a lot more.
This bothers me a lot sometimes. I have seen people requesting to be transferred to another country, and being denied, presumably because of the salary difference. Then, the person leaves, and someone in Australia gets hired. So, rather than moving a veteran person of whom you know fits your company culture to a higher-paying country, you let him go and hire a newbie in an equally-expensive country? What the fuckity fuck?
And to my friends from high-paying countries, especially managers: you don't have to feel bad, but have some common decency. If you come to my country, do not say "oh gosh, everything here is so cheap," or "the dinner for the whole team costs less than buying my family of four a dinner back home." That's offensive as fuck. If that's the case, fucking give me a raise you cheap fuck!30
Something I have learnt in the past month:
Never settle for a low salary no matter how good a company sounds (unless it's a really prestige company) if they don't realise your worth and don't care about their employees. Salary is important. You are important. And customers are important. Any company that just values money, income, profit and growth over their customer and employee experience is a huge red flag. If your work life is so stressful that it doesn't let you have a good work/life balance then avoid it. What comes above being a developer is being healthy and I think alot of people don't realise this. It may sound good to work as an engineer for a big platform but if they only value themselves you are just a cheap slave, move on and do something respectable and enjoyable.
Just my life lesson in applying for grad jobs.4
I am torn apart for several months now. My boss and coworkers are amazing people, projects are quite fun and interesting, workplace is close to home and they pay for my exams (step by step reaching for MCSD certification), but...
The salary if fcking low (you could probably earn same ammount while working as a waitress of normal restaurant). Not only for me of course, but still :( Now I am thinking of running to some bank and doing boring programming job coding same tasks again and again, but getting payed very well4
Worst experience with managers.
Joined new company.
My work experience, knowledge and everything else was upto the mark(exceeded at some places) with their requirements. I was handling full technology stack for previous company.
But while negotiating he declined me salary I asked for because previous company was small (startup with no big name, it shut down after few years) also previous company payscale was low so they offered me increment based on that payscale( which was low compared to salary they offer for same experienced person).
He also hired one more guy who was from big company with same experience, but he got more salary than me. Later I came to know that he knows little compared to me and most of the time manager asked him to take help from me for coding.
Now at the time of increment he is offering me increment with which my salary is still less that the other guy.
I think its time to leave.
Whenever I see job postings with salaries this low I always wonder exactly what's going through the minds of the people running the company.
Who in their right mind would want to spend 4+ years working hard on a CS degree only to be offered less than what the average retail manager earns? I barely afford a 1 bed flat share on this salary in my part of the country...
I'm starting to run into more and more job adverts like this. Why are companies working so hard to rip of graduates?13
You want me to work in-loco, even thought my job can be done remotely? That's fine.
Your company's offices are located in a expensive district of a expensive European capital? That's fine too.
You want to pay me a salary so low, that I can only afford to live 2 hours away from work? Fuck That!!!
If your company is in a expensive location, either offer me a high salary or stop bothering me with bad job offers.
So I just finished my degree and started working here at a small game development company that makes board games for mobiles (android/ios) using Unity. I love Unity and have built some demos and all for my college projects before.
They said there will be a training period but all they make me do is integrate firebase and other ad network plugins into their shitty game project.
And above that I'm offered only $200 a month. My college made me believe that you must get employed however low the salary is, no matter what. Fuck this shit.
I'd rather like to make my own game someday and make money off that than to work at this nihilistic place.2
Have you ever declined a job offer?
I had an interview a couple weeks ago, got an offer, but I had to decline because the salary was too low.
It would have been my first full time job (after several internships).
I'm not completely sure if I made the right choice. The team was really small, and it felt like I would have had to handle too much other than the responsibilities of my role.
And I have another interview tomorrow. I hope it goes well.
Meanwhile, I'm working as a developer consultant for a client. I'm learning a lot doing that, so that's going well. :)8
So what exactly does "Learning" mean in a tech industry?
From my experience,
"learning" from college's pov
"Welcome to the class. your parents has paid us already for this. Now we are supposed to stand here for next 6 months, study very slowly and learn about the topics of our curriculum and give a test on it. we might as well make a good nice project to check our knowledge"
(worst college will also add "Sorry the above message was just fiction, i am here to drink tea & enjoy my day,while you guys are here to enjoy,mark attendance and get a degree because we only care about our reputation and we are gonna pass you anyway")
"learning" from startups pov:
"Here is an idea, here is a design, here is your months salary and here is your deadline.
Make a 100% polished,working product out of it before the deadline. You are solely responsible for this project and you have to figure out on your own how to make our fantasy idea into reality before deadline hits( else you are shit).
This way you learn.
We will also provide you with a free all time learning course on how to be fine without getting any respect for your hardwork and tolerate our insults, which will help you in the life long journey of dealing assholes.
Our company is great and providing you an amazing learning opportunity, kiss our feet."
(worst startups will also add "We don't have/ wont provide you any seniors to help you with this stuff, the internet is your source of truth"/ "if you don't hit the deadline, your salary will get deducted"/ "work on weekends to hit the deadline")
"Learning" from an MNC pov (never really experienced those but from what i have heard):
"Welcome to our company. we here provide you with a similar experience as that of your shitty college during training period and then put you in low brain-ish low paying repetitive job for life until you leave us or we find a replacement for your work or salary"5
So, I am working in this small company (9 employees - 2 developers me inclusive) in the Netherlands, already for 8 months. My responsibilities are mostly back-end development with PHP, but sometimes they ask me to do front-end apps too or even mobiles apps (with react js/native). And I have 4 years of experience. At the moment, I am responsible for 5 projects. In fact, if I quit, company is going to have a lot of problems, because no one can overtake my projects, they will need to hire someone else.
So, I get 1950euros/month, which is really low for developer with my skills in the NL (I agreed on this, because at the time I really needed the job and I am not a good negotiator), and I feel like the company is taking advantage of me. But from the other side, I like my colleagues, bosses and the projects I work with, they are awesome, comparing to my prior experience. I even get the freedom to experiment with new technologies.
So I am going to ask for a raise, but is there a limit for how much should I ask? I would like to get at least 2.5k, which is already 30% increase, but salary.com says I should get 4k. So, I wonder isnt it a little too much?
I never asked for a raise before, so I would really appreciate some advice.1
I am so close to crying it is just not funny, every time i close my eyes I picture Superman's Scream after snapping Zod's neck in man of steel i.e. filled with pain, anguish and not being able to accept what you have become... I am not a dev but I have been glued to a computer screen since 7 years old.
I work for a company as the I.T. Administrator that does quite a bit of specialized work in the regulatory industry and has there own in-house software. This was built by one developer after another, hired straight out of university/college and you cannot believe how big of a monster this became being built with direction from someone who cant code and a bunch of "drunk children" who do not know good principles (swear to god thousands of lines with no comments and no OOP)
Now I am validating and testing a system, i keep being asked if we will be ready by the end of the week and due to my lack of qualifications after dropping out of school I keep thinking yes, but every time i test something I find another problem, I may not be able to code but understanding quickly is my strength and I know this shit is not simple.
I am under constant pressure to deliver something quickly.
Any concerns I raise are almost brushed off because I am an idiot with no qualifications who should be greatful for the work I am doing and the low as balls salary
The problems I solve are commended by the 10+ years of experience senior developer writing the application for us, yet I get shit for taking an hour to find the problem that existed in our network setup because it is the devs job (OMFG HE WOULD NEVER HAVE REALIZED WITHOUT COMING HERE AND LOOKING AT OUR INFRASTRUCTURE... WE WOULD HAVE BEEN STUCK FOR A FUCKING MONTH!!!!)
I see only 2 courses ahead for my life. The easy way and the hard way.
Easy way, buy a gun and end it all.
Suffer for 3 more years in the place that is causing constant breathing difficulty and the occasional pain in my left arm, finish my matric, continue learning to code and leave.
But right now I just want cry scream like Superman!!!6
The near future is in IOT and device programming...
In ten years most of us will have some kind of central control and more and more stuff connected to IOT, security will be even a bigger problem with all the Firmware bugs and 0-day exploits, and In 10 years IOT programmers will be like today's plumbers... You need one to make a custom build and you must pay an excessive hour salary.
My country is already getting Ready, I'm starting next month a 1-year course on automation and electronics programming paid by the government.
On the other hand, most users will use fewer computers and more tablets and phones, meaning jobs in the backend and device apps programming and less in general computer programs for the general public.
Programmers jobs will increase as general jobs decrease, as many jobs will be replaced by machines, but such machines still need to be programmed, meaning trading 10 low-level jobs for 1 or 2 programming jobs.
Unlike most job areas, self-tough and Bootcamp programmers will have a chance for a job, as experience and knowledge will be more important than a "canudo" (Portuguese expression for the paper you get at the end of a university course). And we will see an increase of Programmer jobs class, with lower paid jobs for less experienced and more well-paid jobs for engineers.
In 10 years the market will be flooded with programmers and computer engineers, as many countries are investing in computer classes in the first years of the kids, So most kids will know at least one programming language at the end of their school and more about computers than most people these days.
Another curious question.
How much is your hour worth? In average. Mine is no more than $10/hr and probably $5/hr sometimes.
Whether freelance hours or full time salary. So I will know how low are dev getting in my country. And then probably I can cry myself to sleep. 😁5
If you apply to a company for a web dev job and their website is a one pager that absolutely sucks and the content written gives the impression they dont know what they are doing should u aim high or low in the expected salary question 🧐4
Don't just think starting salary - think about your income over the course of your working life.
Your starting salary might be high - but it might mean that your ceiling after that is quite low. If you reach your ceiling too soon, you'll have to retrain to get more dough.
Retraining is starting again and might not jive very well with a partner and children in tow.3
How much salary should I ask for in Germany?
Specifically near Frankfurt, in aerospace sector. I have seen 58k gross yearly but seems to be a bit low to my liking. I am expecting 40/45% tax rate but not sure about that too.11
Any senior dev who get less paid in terms of his juniors or am I the only one?
If anyone who is in same shoes like me please suggest how to cope with the feeling of unrest and feel less miserable.6
I have 4 years professional experience at a small shop working on a web application for property and liability insurance. The application is ASP.NET with C# as the code-behind. I have a BCS and will finish my MSIS fall 2017. I have no idea why I have the degrees. I know that when I enrolled, it seemed like they would be a nice addition to an otherwise empty resume. I was lucky enough to land my first and only development job during my sophomore year of my undergraduate program. Is this enough experience to land a new job?
I feel like I'm learning nothing at my current job. The specs that come in seem very vague to me. When asked for clarification, there is often push back, and I don't know whether that's because I don't have enough experience to parse what the client means in the two sentence spec I got or if it's because the client does not actually know what they want.
I hate my current job. My productivity is low because I spend more time trying to figure out what the client wants and analyzing an 8 year old system that has 0 documentation. I know some of you will just say, "Suck it up" at this point, but I really want another job. The only thing I like about this job is that it's 100% remote. It also pays $60k a year, so a replacement should be at least that salary.
Most postings I see require professional experience of 5 years or more, and knowledge of other frameworks. I can work on getting knowledge of the other frameworks, but will have no professional experience with them. I don't live in an area with a lot of software development jobs, and the ones I see are for non-IT organizations that want 1 person to run a distributed system from 10 or more locations. A hospital system out here wants to pay $30k a year for a guy to be both software developer for new tools as well as the helpdesk and IT support guy that's on-call for four locations in the county. I made more than that before I got into the development industry, for less work, and would rather leave than settle for something like that.
I've thought about moving to somewhere near San Francisco or San Jose, but I have my daughter to think about. I have joint custody of her, and would have to give that up in order to move out of the county.
I like programming and using it to solve problems. I like designing architectures and how all the components will interface. I like designing and normalizing databases. I like taking part in coding competitions for employers that are well-known (Amazon, Facebook, Uber, Twitch, etc.), even though I often just place middle of the pack. When that happens, I feel like I'm an imposter in this industry.
I think I have the most fun just working on small projects for personal use. My latest is an assistant calculator for the game Transport Fever to figure out cargo throughputs per annum based on the in-game timing information. Past projects have also been small. Ones I could use in a portfolio are a sudoku solver desktop application, PC/Web game in Unity that is a 3D FPS remake of Duck Hunt that allows open world exploration but locks the camera's viewpoint for shooting events, and a building assistant for Rome II: Total War that maps out all the bonuses/perks of user-specified building combinations in provinces so users can record their long term building plans without using all their turns to see the final results.
I seem to be an unproductive, average developer who dabbles in projects here and there.
This is what I want from other Ranters. Just say something. I don't care if it is, "Suck it up and get better." It could be your tips for finding and securing a new position. It could even be empathy, if such a thing exists on the Internet. Whatever you want, just say something that will help get me thinking of what the next steps in my career should be.1
The Economists department where I'm getting a PhD announced a 'great' job opportunity in the State Manufacturing Federation. It seemed truly great, it was an interest job and it required every single ability I've been developing over these years: coding, database management, statistical analysis, geoprocessing and making of maps... But the salary was offensively low. That day I realized how much I'm valued in the market. *sigh*
It started when life caught me off guard. It was one of those transition moment when you realized you are no longer a college student and you need to get a job.
I was clueless that time (still clueless - smh) that I didn't prepare my CV nor interviews. I got into panic mode and ask help from career service in my college (I rarely ask for help, and when I did that, I am really desperate).
Long story short, I got a job from the career service's connection. I don't think I did well in both the interview and technical test (of course, no prep or whatsoever, what do you expect?) but seems like we both in need of each other (maybe because my grades when I was in college is good... and maybe because my starting salary is low enough... and maybe because there was no better candidate at that moment) that I get picked.3
Am really worried about this major ( Computer science major ) in my country ( Lebanon ).
We have a very good potentials and very low salaries compared to it. And in case we apply abroad there is always an indian who have the same experience at least and most of them request a very low salary.
Trust me am really worried.2
Just got an offer for a mid engineer position. The pay is actually less than what I currently make. I get that different companies have different salary expectations. But this company is actually closer to a major tech hub then where I'm at. They actually came in 5k less then what I asked for. But here's the real kicker, I'd only start with 7 days of PTO and 5 recognized holidays. This seems super low to me. So the question is, what's everyone's expectations (particularly in the US) for PTO? I get 15 right now and 8 recognized holidays. Which seems reasonable.8