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I'd like to extend my heartfelt fuck-you to the following persons:
- The recruiter who told me that at my age I wouldn't find a job anymore: FUCK YOU, I'll send you my 55 birthday's cake candles, you can put all of them in your ass, with light on.
- The Project Manager that after 5 rounds of interviews and technical tests told me I didn't have enough experience for his project: be fucked in an Agile way by all member of your team, standing up, every morning for 15 minutes, and every 2 weeks by all stakeholders.
- The unemployment officer who advised me to take low level jobs, cut my expenses and salary expectations: you can cut your cock and suck it, so you'll stop telling bullshit to people
- The moron that gave me a monster technical assignment on Big Data, which I delivered, and didn't gave me any feedback: shove all your BIG DATA in your ass and open it to external integrations
- the architect who told me I should open my horizons, because I didn't like React: put a reactive mix in your ass and close it, so your shit will explode in your mouth
- the countless recruiter who used my cv to increase their db, offering fake jobs: print all your db on paper and stuff your ass with that, you'll see how big you will be
To all of them, really really fuck you.12 -
1. I join a company.
2. I get deeply involved in "how to run the company", and get nice compliments from both coworkers & management about my skills in conveying startup/scaleup advice & necessities to upper management.
3. With my ego inflated through all the sweet talk, I think "ah, what the hell, let's do this again", and I accept a Lead/CTO promotion. I have to join board meetings, write reports on quarterly plans and progress.
4. I get unhappy/stressed/burned-out because I really just want to be a developer, not a manager/executive.
5. Upper management understands, I give up my lead position, lock myself back into my coding cave.
6. I get annoyed because the requirements I receive become more and more disconnected from reality, half of the teams seem to have decided to stop using agile/scrum, the testing pipeline breaks all the time, I get an updated labor contract from HR by mail which smells like charred flesh, etc
7. The annoyances become too much to do ANY work. I yell at the other devs outside of the entrance of my cave. There is no answer, only a few painful moans and sighs.
8. I emerge from my cave. The city has turned into a desolate wasteland. The office is a burning ruin, the air sharp and heavy with black soot. Disemboweled corpses of developers litter the poisoned soil.
Product Managers dressed in stained ripped suits scream at each other while they try to reinforce concrete barricades with scotch tape and post-its. *THUMP* Something enormous is trying to break through. "Thank God, bittersweet, you're still alive! The stakeholders! They have mutated! We couldn't meet the promised deadlines! We've lost the whole mobile app department, and that kid there is the last of the backenders and he's only an intern! You're here to save us, right? RIGHT?".
In the corner, between the overflowing coffee machine and a withered cactus, a young boy has collapsed onto the floor. His face is covered in moldy coffee grounds, clasping on to his closed macbook for dear life, wide-open eyes staring into the void, mumbling: "didn't backup the database, and It's all gone" over and over.
A severely dented black Tesla with a dragging loose bumper breaks through the dried up vertical herb garden and the smoothiebar, and comes to a halt against the beanbags in a big cloud of styrofoam balls.
The CEO limps out, leaking blood all over the upholstery. He yells to the COO: "The datacenter is completely flooded with sewage! I saved the backup tapes though", holding a large nest of tangled black magnetic tape mixed with clumps of mud above his head.
9. I collect my outstanding salary and sell any rewarded options/shares for a low dumping price, take a 5 month holiday, and ask a recruiter about opportunities in a different city.14 -
I got a call from the recruiter today and she asked me for my current salary. When I told her, she replied "Based on your experience and skill set, that's too low".
"That's why I am looking for a job"
I cried internally 😥8 -
PEOPLE. DO NOT LIE ON YOUR RESUME. IT. IS. NOT. WORTH. IT. Ok, backstory.
We had a guy apply for this position at work. It really needed to be filled but also required someone with just the right certifications, so hiring the first schmuck to come along Was not an option.
We search high and low and as time passes without an acceptable applicant we become more desperate and open to negotiation. Basically, you name your price, we’ll agree to it at this point.
So finally a guy comes in, got everything we need but one minor certification. No problem. He can get that on the job, he doesn’t need it to start. He’s hired.
So he quotes us a salary 10% above our top range of what we’d usually pay a guy for this position, we don’t care. He gets it. Plus a housing allowance.
So we’re getting him registered with a place to handle his certification process and they call his four year institution to verify his transcript. We work with hazardous materials and a four year degree in a relevant field is required. It’s standard for the certification training institution to check. Especially when it’s a prestigious big name place like this guy had. And here I used to think that was paranoid of them.
They call and tell us the school says they have no record of him. We do some digging. He was never registered there. I’m like “that’s not possible, his professor is a listed reference. We call that reference.
He worked on a project with this man, he never taught him. Is very fascinated to learn this man has been presenting himself as though he attended the university. Asks to be delisted as a reference.
So long story short it comes out this guy did have a degree in this field, just from a less prestigious university.
The insane thing is, he would’ve still gotten the same job and salary package if he’d been honest about his university!
It is a loss for all involved. He doesn’t have a job. We don’t have anyone working in this position. It’s really unfortunate. Don’t lie on your resume people. Your employer will find out and the risks are not worth the benefits.12 -
To all young freelancers in low-income countries: I want to share my experience, of 6 years working for a piss-poor country, and 6 years working in freelance, and then emigrating. Here's what you should watch out for, and what to expect:
My first salary was barely 1.5$ per hour. I lived in a piss-poor country that taught me a lot (like why it's piss-poor).
The main thing to note when you're a developer in such a country, is that you're being fucked. Your employer might scream at you and tell you how bad you are, while barely paying you. That is you ... being ... fucked. Gain some confidence with the help of friends and family, and a great effort from yourself, look at what freelance gigs you can find, and ditch anything related to jobs in your country.
Being a somewhat able developer, but with modest experience, I started my freelance gigs for 5$ per hour. Because I was lazy, and freelance gigs weren't exactly being thrown at me, I was making 100$ per week, AFTER the companies I worked for appreciated what I did and offered themselves to up my pay to 12$ per hour. Yep. I was lazy. You will likely get lazy in freelance too, so be prepared for this.
My luck changed when one of my clients became a full-time employer, at 15$ per hour, with a well organized team where I actually worked for 40 hours per week (I had already amassed 8 years of experience...). For people in first world countries that will seem laughable, but in my country I was king of the hill, getting paid more than government CEOs that ended up in the news as the "most well paid".
That was the top of the pyramid for international indie freelance, as I would later find out.
I didn't do stuff that was very difficult. In fact, I felt like my abilities were rotting while I worked there. I had to change something. So I started looking for better offers. I contacted many companies that were looking for a senior developer, and the interviews went well, and all was fine, except for my salary demands. I was asking for 25$ per hour. Nobody was willing to pay more than 15$ per hour. That's because of my competition - tons of developers in cheap-to-live countries that had the same, or more to offer, for the same rates. Globalization.
So I moved to Germany. As soon as I was legally able to work, I was hunted down by everybody. I was told that it takes a month to pass the whole hiring process in Germany. My experience demonstrated that 2-5 days is enough to get a signed contract with "Please start ASAP".
There is freelance in Germany as well. And in the US. And everywhere else. A "special" kind of freelance, where you have to reside locally. The rates that this freelance goes for is much, much higher than international freelance. I'd say that 100€ per hour is ok-ish. Some people (newbies, or foreigners who don't speak the language well) get less, around 60 or so. Smart experienced locals get around 150-200 or even more.
It's all there. Companies want good developers to solve their business problems with IT solutions, and they'll beg you to take their money if you can deliver that.
So code!
Learn!
Accummulate experience!
Screw the scumbags that screw you for 1-2$ per hour!
Anyone able to write something more than "Hello World!" deserves more.
Do the climb! There's literally room for everybody up there! There is so much to do, that I feel like there will never be too many developers.
Thank you for bearing with my long story. I hope it will help you make it shorter and more pleasant for you.11 -
Sooooo me and the lead dev got placed in the wrong job classification at work.
Without sounding too mean, we are placed under the same descriptor and pay scale reserved for secretaries, janitors and the people that do maintenance at work(we work for a college as developers) whilst our cowormer who manages the cms got the correct classification.
The manager went apeshit because the guidelines state that:
Making software products
Administration of dbs
Server maintenance and troubleshooting
Security (network)
And a lot of shit is covered on the exemption list and it is things that we do by a wide fucking margin. The classification would technically prohibit us from developing software and the whole it dptmnt went apeshit over it since he(lead developer) refuses (rightfully so) to touch anything and do basically nothing other than generate reports.
Its a fun situation. While we both got a substantial raise in salary(go figure) we also got demoted at the same time.
There is a department in IT which deals with the databases for other major applications, their title is "programmers" yet for some reason me and the lead end up writing all the sql code that they ever need. They make waaaaay more money than me and the lead do, even in the correct classification.
Resolution: manager is working with the head of the department to correct this blasphemy WHILE asking for a higher pay than even the "programmers"
I love this woman. She has balls man. When the president of the school paraded around the office asking for an update on a high priority app she said that I am being gracious enough to work on it even though i am not supposed to. The fucking prick asked if i could speed it up to where she said that most of my work I do it on my off time, which by law is now something that I cannot do for the school and that she does not expect any of her devs to do jack shit unless shit gets fixed quick. With the correct pay.
Naturally, the president did not like such predicament and thus urged the HR department(which is globally hated now since they fucked up everyone's classification) to fix it.
Dunno if I will get above the pay that she requested. But seeing that royal ammount of LADY BALLS really means something to me. Which is why i would not trade that woman for a job at any of my dream workplaces.
Meanwhile, the level of stress placed my 12 years of service diabetic lead dev at the hospital. Fuck the hr department for real, fuck the vps of the school that fucked this up royally and fuck people in this city in general. I really care for my team, and the lead dev is one of my best friends and a good developer, this shit will not fucking go unnoticed and the HR department is now in low priority level for the software that we build for them
Still. I am amazed to have a manager that actually looks out for us instead of putting a nice face for the pricks that screwed us over.
I have been working since I was 16, went through the Army, am 27 now and it is the first time that I have seen such manager.
She can't read this, but she knows how much I appreciate her.3 -
Rich CEO's are so out of touch with reality.
We outsourced part of our software development to a third world country. During hiring process I had pushed for us to hire the more expensive, more experienced devs in a second-world country, but nooo we must save up those bucks. The pay is so low you wouldn't be able to afford rent in *city where CEO lives*.
As @GiddyNaya has ranted about, third world countries face impossibly slow internet and frequent blackouts. I also ranted about it in my last post. The "last straw" for the CEO was when our dev's computer started malfunctioning.
boss: When is that computer from?
dev: 2017
boss: 2017?! That's a dinosaur! Of course you're having battery problems!
me, trying to come up with an affordable solution for our dev: Well, you can have the battery switched.
boss: But 2017 is too old! Your computer should be *at most* 5 years old. I cannot stress enough how important it is to have your work-related tools working. (last sentence is ad verbatim)
The boss, of course, recommended a Mac. Mind you, the closest Apple store to our dev is 500km away! And a month of their salary will not come close to paying a Macbook.
Providing them with the equipment? No! We're already paying them a "competitive" salary!
Like seriously, how out of touch with reality can you be? Does greed blind you that much?
(The dev seems to have fixed the computer problems on his own tho)14 -
Man, I think we've all gotten way too many of these.
Normally most interactions that I have are through email. Eventually some would try to contact me via phone. These are some:
"Hey! We are calling you from <whatever company name> solutions! (most of them always seem to end on solutions or some shit like that) concerning the Ruby on Rails senior dev opportunity we were talking about via email"
<niceties, how are you doing, similar shit goes here...eventually>
So tell us! how good/comfortable would you say you are with C++?"
Me: I have never done anything serious with c++ and did just use it at school, but because I am not a professional in it I did not list it in my CV, what does it have to do with Rails?
Them: "Oh the applications of this position must be ready to take in additional duties which sometimes happen to be C or C++"
Me: Well that was not anywhere in the offer you sent, it specifically requested a full stack Rails developer that could work with 3 different frontend stacks already and like 4 different databases plus bla bla bla, I did not see c++ anywhere in it. Matter of fact I find it funny, one of the things that I was curious about was the salary, for what you are asking and specifically in the city in which you are asking it for 75k is way too low, you are seriously expecting a senior level rails dev to do all that AND take additional duties with c++? cpp could mean a billion different things"
Them: "well this is a big opportunity that will increase your level to senior position"
Me: the add ALREADY asks for a senior position, why are you making it sound that I will get build towards that level if you are already off the bat asking for seniors only to begin with?
Them: You are not getting it, it is an opportunity to grow into a senior, applicants right now are junior to mid-level
ME: You are all not making any sense, please don't contact me again.
=======
Them: We are looking for someone with 15 years experience with Swift development for mobile and web
Me: What is up with your people not making these requirements in paper? if I knew from the beginning that you people think that Swift is 15 years old I would have never agreed to this "interview"
Them: If you are not interested in that then might we offer this one for someone with 10 years experience as a full stack TypeScript developer.
Me: No, again, check your dates, this is insulting.
===
* For another Rails position
Them: How good are you with Ruby on Rails in terms of Python?
Me: excuse me? Python has nothing to do with Ruby on Rails.
Her (recruiter was a woman) * with a tone of superiority: I have it here that Python is the primary technology that accompanies Rails development.
Me (thinking this was a joke) : What do you think the RUBY part of Ruby on Rails is for? and what does "accompanies Rails development" even means?
Her: Well if you are not interested in using Rails with Python then maybe you can tell us about your experience in using Javascript as the main scripting platform for Rails.
Me: This is a joke, goodbye.
====
To be fair this was years ago when I still didn't know better and test the recruiters during the email part of being contacted. Now a days I feel sorry for everyone since I just say no without even bothering. This is a meme all on itself which no one has ever bothered to review and correct in years for now. I don't know why recruiters don't google themselves to see what people think of their "profession" in order to become better.
I've even had the Java/Javascript stupidity thrown at me by a local company. For that one it was someone from their very same HR department doing the rectuiter, their shop foreman was a friend of the family, did him the service of calling him to let him know that his HR was never going to land the kind of developer they were looking for with the retarded questions they had and sent him a detailed email concerning the correct information they needed for their JAVAscript job which they kept confusing with Java (for some reason in the context of Spring, they literally wanted nothing with Spring, they wanted some junior to do animations and shit like that on their company's website, which was in php, Java was nowhere in this equation)
I think people in web development get the short end of the stick when it comes to retarded recruiters more than anywhere else.3 -
Was working in small startup with great people on new projects, but for very low salary and shitty conditions.
Changed job to big company with nice salary and great conditions, but people are assholes and have to work on legacy stuff mostly.
Guess you can't have everything.1 -
What the fuck!!!!!
Never thought I'd have to rant so soon joining my new org.
Guess the honeymoon phase is over earlier than I anticipated.
1. This company is awesome and employee friendly. They made me kickass deal which I couldn't refuse. However, upon checking glassdoor, I realised they still managed to low ball me. Lol.
But I have no complaints and I am pretty happy with whatever they are offering as of now. My next point is the primary reason I disabled my app blocker to rant out.
2. A junior is leaving and so is my lead. Damn! Fuckkkkkk!!! My lead is super awesome. There's so much dependent on her.
Entire organisation is watching the product line she and I am working on. It's the heart of the entire product.
It's just been a month I joined and so much responsibility on me already. Well, I am not fearing that.
What I am afraid of and rather uncomfortable with is that they are going to hire someone else in a different time zone who'll lead this entire thing and they might map me under that new person who'll be a senior level executive.
Fuck that shit. I don't want to leave my current manager for she is awesome too. With departure of my lead, it's just me and my manager that are left in the team.
I am not sure what the future will be but I know that there are lot of learnings coming my way.
One thing I wish for is that they relocate me for short or mid term to UK or EU. Then a lot of things will be solved for me.
For now, I am just keeping my head low and doing what best I can, which is focusing on work.
Hope they promote me with an amazing salary hike.5 -
Today I decided to quit my job. Yesterday I had my yearly review couldn't be more perfect, I did everything they asked me for and more (help with recruitment, animate conferences, work very late a lot of time, work during my vacation days...) yet to be surprised that I will only have 3% raise (on a low salary). I feel not valued and I was very disappointed :(8
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Most of things I'm about to say are experienced by almost 99% of developers in Africa including my country so I'm going to make it a more general rant.
As an African developer, life is both exciting and frustrating at the same time. Some of the challenges that make life difficult for developers in Africa include:
1). Slow Internet Speed: The internet in Africa can be extremely slow and unreliable, making it frustrating to work on projects that require large file downloads. This is a serious challenge for freelance developers who work from home.
2). Unstable Electricity: Frequent power outages due to inadequate infrastructure, insufficient investment in energy production and distribution, and political instability makes it difficult for developers in Africa to work consistently. Most times I get frustrated because you can experience black out at anytime of the day which could last for hours to days automatically rendering you useless if you have no power backup generator at home.
3). Low Pay: While the opportunities for software developers in Africa are quite high, the salary is often disappointing. Many talented programmers end up seeking better opportunities overseas. In fact I quit my full-time job because of this reason.
4). Lack of Support for Tech Start-ups: There are few venture capital firms in Africa willing to invest in new ideas, which makes it difficult for tech start-ups to get off the ground. It's just sad, you can have an idea and just die with it.
So in summary, it's not a walk in the park to be a developer in Africa, but despite all of that I am glad to be a part of the African journey, having the opportunity to had work at a tech agency firm on various projects ranging from healthcare to finance, I find it rewarding to know that my work has contributed to a better future for my continent. 🤞6 -
If they immediately agreed to your salary expectations, either your expectations were low or their expectations were high (or both).
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A few years ago, I used to work at a very small company. It was a compact team, we all got along quite nicely and work was very good too, but the salary was very low.
Then I got an offer from a big company in the big city for thrice the pay, and I understood how great an opportunity this is, and I knew I would get a lot to learn from this. So, I decided to take it.
So, when I went to my boss to hand in the resignation, he turned red and started tearing into at me and threatening me. And I was taken aback, because, he was usually so nice. He even threatened to have me kidnapped, and I was so dumbstruck, I couldn't even understand what the heck was going on.
I didn't even finish my notice period. I just went home after that, and never went back.1 -
Development plus laboratories is kind of my expertise, so I ended up in a little grimey HR office looking out over the factory floor of a cocoa processing facility. I was applying for an automation job, a temp thing for three weeks, updating some ugly scripts which took readings from machines and threw them into excel sheets.
"We don't think a developer like you has enough experience working in an environment like this. Safety and working in sterile conditions is very important to us"
I had sent them my certifications in advance, plus references to the work I did in a biosafety level 3 lab for JnJ and cleanroom work at an aerospace company.
There were fat sweaty guys on sneakers, taking cocoa paste samples right next to the window.
They ended up hiring a friend of mine with zero experience, for minimum wage.
Just be fucking honest, don't waste my time with courtesies and lies. If they had just told me about the low salary indication, I would still have done the work. I was in between jobs anyway, bored, trying to fill up some spare time.4 -
I've been away, lurking at the shadows (aka too lazy to actually log in) but a post from a new member intrigued me; this is dedicated to @devAstated . It is erratic, and VERY boring.
When I resigned from the Navy, I got a flood of questions from EVERY direction, from the lower rank personnel and the higher ups (for some reason, the higher-ups were very interested on what the resignation procedure was...). A very common question was, of course, why I resigned. This requires a bit of explaining (I'll be quick, I promise):
In my country, being in the Navy (or any public sector) means you have a VERY stable job position; you can't be fired unless you do a colossal fuck-up. Reduced to non-existent productivity? No problem. This was one of the reasons for my resignation, actually.
However, this is also used as a deterrent to keep you in, this fear of lack of stability and certainty. And this is the reason why so many asked me why I left, and what was I going to do, how was I going to be sure about my job security.
I have a simple system. It can be abused, but if you are careful, it may do you and your sanity good.
It all begins with your worth, as an employee (I assume you want to go this way, for now). Your worth is determined by the supply of your produced work, versus the demand for it. I work as a network and security engineer. While network engineers are somewhat more common, security engineers are kind of a rarity, and the "network AND security engineer" thing combined those two paths. This makes the supply of my work (network and security work from the same employee) quite limited, but the demand, to my surprise, is actually high.
Of course, this is not something easy to achieve, to be in the superior bargaining position - usually it requires great effort and many, many sleepless nights. Anyway....
Finding a field that has more demand than there is supply is just one part of the equation. You must also keep up with everything (especially with the tech industry, that changes with every second). The same rules apply when deciding on how to develop your skills: develop skills that are in short supply, but high demand. Usually, such skills tend to be very difficult to learn and master, hence the short supply.
You probably got asleep by now.... WAKE UP THIS IS IMPORTANT!
Now, to job security: if you produce, say, 1000$ of work, then know this:
YOU WILL BE PAID LESS THAN THAT. That is how the company makes profit. However, to maximize YOUR profit, and to have a measure of job security, you have to make sure that the value of your produced work is high. This is done by:
- Producing more work by working harder (hard method)
- Producing more work by working smarter (smart method)
- Making your work more valuable by acquiring high demand - low supply skills (economics method)
The hard method is the simplest, but also the most precarious - I'd advise the other two. Now, if you manage to produce, say, 3000$ worth of work, you can demand for 2000$ (numbers are random).
And here is the thing: any serious company wants employees that produce much more than they cost. The company will strive to pay them with as low a salary as it can get away with - after all, a company seeks to maximize its profit. However, if you have high demand - low supply skills, which means that you are more expensive to be replaced than you are to be paid, then guess what? You have unlocked god mode: the company needs you more than you need the company. Don't get me wrong: this is not an excuse to be unprofessional or unreasonable. However, you can look your boss in the eye. Believe me, most people out there can't.
Even if your company fails, an employee with valuable skills that brings profit tends to be snatched very quickly. If a company fires profitable employees, unless it hires more profitable employees to replace them, it has entered the spiral of death and will go bankrupt with mathematical certainty. Also, said fired employees tend to be absorbed quickly; after all, they bring profit, and companies are all about making the most profit.
It was a long post, and somewhat incoherent - the coffee buzz is almost gone, and the coffee crash is almost upon me. I'd like to hear the insight of the veterans; I estimate that it will be beneficial for the people that start out in this industry.2 -
“I Pay $900 A Month for student loans.”
Not sure why there’s a video about this but let’s watch it...
*Sad music is playing*
“My name is _____ and I pay $900 a month for student loans..”
Yeah so what?
*Sad music continues*
??
*Woman makes a call and asks about when they’re going to make a student loan reform aggressively*
????
Then I realized my family was eligible for low income and I received Cal and Pell grants to pay for my tuition and living.
Then I realized that the salary for my computer science degree has numbed me to a point where $900 a month doesn’t seem too bad. Or awful. I mean I just leased a new car for my mom! And didn’t hesitate (only when having fun negotiating though).
Back then, I would be shocked. But it’s a surreal feeling to see now that I don’t. I was literally confused at the basis of this video. And now I’m surprised at my disconnect from it.
I also realized that they make videos based on how society should react to it. Am I an outcast to society because of this? Why am I not reacting the same way?
Maybe society (nowadays) would disdain me because I’ve come into high income like we all will because of our passion (and the demand for it).
But fuck society. It’s full of the very same people who use technology each and every day. Protesting for things they found trending on Twitter. The ones who refused to learn even though it’s a huge part of their lives. They’re the ones holding us back for an Engel’s Technological Utopia (idk if I’m even correct about the philosopher but anyways..)
We’re above them. We make things they’ll use and in massive numbers.
Don’t let them dictate what you should like. How you should act. Whether or not you should feel lonely while they’re posting pictures of fun times on Facebook.
We should be the ones doing that. Because we are the ones doing that.
That’s why we’re given the best to perform what we love most.
So devs, continue what you’re doing. Small or big, you’re still driving the world forward. Opening pull requests and contributing to open source projects. Answering questions on Stack Overflow not only for the person intended but for the beginner or even experienced professional who may stumble upon it later in a Google search.
And be highly rewarded for it. How society feels doesn’t matter any more when it comes to your passion. You’re important. Your work helps others in ways you can’t even imagine. We’re like one big fucking hivemind of engineers with the accessibility of the internet.
I love drinking on a Sunday!12 -
And so I have ranted earlier about how a panelist during my thesis defense told me that my algorithm is not an algorithm because it needs mathematical equations to be called an algorithm. I also told you guys that I facepalmed during the course of the interrogation.
Now I failed my thesis because I facepalmed. I quit school because of that but now I'm a better career person than him. I already started my freelance team and earning more than double his salary and he's still suck at being a low quality professor.7 -
Kinda rant, kinda not.
At the start of this year all of my colleagues left company beacause of low raise. This process took like 3 months. After that I automatically became most senior in our team with 8 months of experience in my current company and 3 years total. It was rough days and still is. One downside is some days I can't even touch my own development tasks. Sometimes I ask for other developers help and assign them tasks. I'm evolving into team lead I guess. Yeah, more like junior team lead. But after few weeks I got a call from our cto and he told me they are raising my salary even I had a raise just 3 months ago. And he told me it will be raised again soon. Even my workload increased I'm still kinda having fun. I think its a bit early for me to be good at this role but I'm learning how to manage people :) Well, at least I got a raise
6 -
My last job before going freelance. It started as great startup, but as time passed and the company grew, it all went down the drain and turned into a pretty crappy culture.
Once one of the local "darling" startups, it's now widely known in the local community for low salaries and crazy employee churn.
Management sells this great "startup culture", but reality is wildly different. Not sure if the management believes in what the are selling, or if they know they are selling BS.
- The recurring motto of "Work smarter, not harder" is the biggest BS of them all. Recurring pressure to work unpaid overtime. Not overt, because that's illegal, but you face judgement if you don't comply, and you'll eventually see consequences like lack of raises, or being passed for promotions in favour of less competent people that are willing to comply.
- Expectation management is worse than non-existent. Worse, because they actually feed expectations they have no intention of delivering on. (I.e, career progression, salary bumps and so on)
- Management is (rightfully) proud of hiring talented people, but then treat almost everyone like they're stupid.
- Feedback is consistently ignored.
- Senior people leave. Replace them with cheap juniors. Promote the few juniors that stay for more than 12 months to middle-management positions and wonder where things went wrong.
- People who rock the boat about the bad culture or the shitty stunts that management occasionally pulls get pushed out.
- Get everyone working overtime for a week to setup a venue for a large event, abroad, while you have everyone in bunk rooms at the cheapest hostel you could find and you don't even cover all meal expenses. No staff hired to setup the venue, so this includes heavy lifting of all sorts. Fly them on the cheapest fares, ensuring nobody gets a direct flight and has a good few hours of layover. Fly them on the weekend, to make sure nobody is "wasting time" travelling during work hours. Then call this a team building.
This is a tech recruitment company that makes a big fuss about how tech recruitment is broken and toxic...
Also a company that wants to use ML and AI to match candidates to jobs and build a sophisticated product, and wanted a stronger "Engineering culture" not so long ago. Meanwhile:
- Engineering is shoved into the back seat. Major company and product decisions made without input from anyone on the engineering side of things, including the product roadmaps.
- Product lead is an inexperienced kid with zero tech background -> Promote him to also manage the developers as part of the product team while getting rid of your tech lead.
- Dev team is essentially seen by management as an assembly line for features. Dev salaries are now well below market average, and they wonder why it's hard to recruit good devs. (Again, this is a tech recruitment company)1 -
I can’t tell what’s cheap anymore. This salary is making me numb and I’m forgetting my low income roots. I saw a video of a girl who rented an apartment in Seoul Korea for $500.
Is that cheap? I don’t know??? Don’t ask me???7 -
I am stranded in the middle of highway because my car engine failed. My 3000$ 10 year old garbage car is full of problems. My life keeps sinking lower and lower each day in every possible way. My parents are so broke that they have to borrow money for food and gas from me, who is also broke (i have about 1500$ left to my name which is over 150,000 (6 figures) in my currency). I sank into the new low. How am i going to buy food and bring groceries to home without a transport such as car? My life has became harder
People who have a car (any car), people who have a job, and people who can afford to go to the gym aside from any other optional life activity -- have no idea how lucky life they are living
I now have to abandon programming because $3.75/hour salary is not going to help my situation right now. I have to focus only on getting money and nothing else. People with money have no idea how happy and lucky they are...
41 -
Photoshop in my country with a low dollar exchange rate, literally required 1/10th of my monthly salary when I was a beginner.
Literally go fuck yourself Adobe.4 -
Attention Software Engineers!
Quit shooting yourselves in the fucking foot! And this ESPECIALLY goes to new grads. I get that you have just finished school. I get that you need a job! But don't fucking settle for a $30-$40k salary because you're "entry level"! The only reason why there are employers who offer that type of salary is because they know that there are enough idiots who will settle for it!
On average, an entry level software engineer's salary is between $50-$60k at the very least! For Senior developers, it is at least $80K/year (although an argument can be made for why they shouldn't settle for less than $100k/year).
Each time a moron low balls his/her salary, that brings down the market value for that talent. And keep this in mind! They don't have a choice but to hire you. They could choose to outsource their work to poorer countries but they don't want to do that due to obvious quality-related reasons so they HAVE TO hire you if they need the work done. And since the ball is in YOUR COURT, demand your fair salary. You went to school for 4 fucking years. You dealt with that stress for 4 fucking years. Why settle for a salary that you could've made without going to school?42 -
One of my friends works in NVIDIA and slwas previously a part of the graphics department where she worked on the rtx 3070 and briefly on 3080 card. The funny thing is she gets paid very low (SDE in India) and sadly her monthly salary is less than the price of either of the cards. While she is not keen on gaming, some of her mates are in a similar situation and just dream about buying it.
All I wanted to do was point out the irony wherein people who help make the thing themselves cant afford it.50 -
Pathetic third world country salaries. I made around 670$ this month with overtime which funny enough is about 2.6x the avg median salary in my country. We have low wages, europe's taxes (with none of the benefits) and a higher cost of living lmao. there was some weeks where I worked 50 to 60 hours, some people tell me I should be grateful but with night shifts and working 12 hours a day I feel like I should be making much more...15
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This is my first post. I felt like if I'm wrote this I'll just be a big fat crybaby, but i need to release this pressure from me.
I've been pretty burnt out past 6 month.
So a little bit backstory here, I've come from broken family, and currently on my 7th semester of college. But I've been part of small startup as mobile apps developer for a year and a half now.
6 month ago, it just a year of recovery from a toxic relationship that basically ruins my college life. I have really bad GPA (bad score for being absent from classes), basically no friends, and a barely passable (or even bad) skill in Android Dev. Then I got new girlfriend that really supportive for me. But after 2 months, her parents ask me if I would marry her or not. because if not, I have to broke up with her (We're in Indonesia and both of us is Muslim, so outside marriage relationship is kinda in "grey area" depend on who you ask). So I have to choose to marry her or not, and I choose the marriage. I think I have enough saving and just enough income to support both of us.
Then it's been a downward spiral from there.
The startup that I've been working on were in a pretty bad shape. I've been underpaid since the beginning (and that's not really a problem for me at that time, that's my choice and I blame no one) but abysmal growth and some miss management force us to scale back and makes me basically in a non-paying jobs.
So I take college break for a semester and been trying to find projects here and there for marriage savings, but because the weak employee protection here, lots of the projects I have completed have yet to pay the fee (even until today). And even if they paid me, most of it were really low paying jobs (we're talking $200 per 3 weeks project here, to be fair, for our average GDP, it's not bottom-low).
And the deadline is approaching, our marriage date is settled in (very) early January 2019, and i've been in this "not yet graduated but needs job" limbo. Most of employer here still has the old "Degree Based" Job specs, and not "Skill Based" one. so because de-jure I've still a "College Student" no Job listing is willing to take me in. I've apply to almost 30 Job Listing and just get interview once, and still failed because I can't move to the company area, too far and have too expensive living cost vs the salary ($300 living cost vs $450 salary, while i need to give money to my girlfriend back home for a living).
So I switch my direction to Competitions with Extra Job offering as a Bonus, and I've been pretty close to winning one, held by CIMB Bank, but still failed. It's little bit better now because CIMB came interested with me but there is red flag which I need to graduate with decent GPA before July 2019, and in current GPA? it's practically impossible.
Can it getting worse? oh it can. Remember I come from broken home family? it's inherently hard to keeps communication with both of my parents that to this day still despise each other. And while my mother is still supportive to my marriage, my father isn't. He even basically disowned me last week because my one-sided decision to marry my girlfriend, and blame my mother for being the "bad influence" for me.
And now, today, December 16th, and I'm still in this weird Limbo and have nowhere to go. with $0 in my pocket (have spent all of my savings for marriage preparation) And our marriage is approaching. I almost given up.23 -
So I'm starting a job at a large company in the early part of next year... it's a total mindfuck because the salary is a m a s s i v e bump up and for the first time I'm experiencing imposter syndrome. I never really fully grasped the feeling that a lot of people here described until after that final interview and an offer was extended. I'm stoked AF to start and it's going to be a huge learning experience while working there.
The company wants me and my family to relocate to another state (US) and it's got my stomach doing somersalts.
It's especially painful because the current place I'm working is amazing; the people are great, the work is solid but fairly low pressure, and there's lateral freedom to work on improving the systems and infrastructure whenever there is free time. And I know that the new gig is going to have certain expectations that need to be met or my head could be on the chopping block.
High risk, high reward I guess 😅
My anxiety is raw dogging my brain and it fucking sucks, but my wife has been doing a great job keeping me level headed and thinking logically about the future and growth this opportunity brings with it.
I'm not trying to gloat or brag, just really needed a place to share some of this since I'm freaking out and don't feel like I have enough experience/skills to take on this job. Those interviews left me worn out. 4 rounds and the final interview was 5 hours long all in one day. 😫2 -
The job market is lol
Graduated 9 months ago, working minimum wage jobs and applying to jobs, never getting an interview! I finally get a job in my field, and within my first week on the job I get calls for 4 interviews, all paying more than the job I took
On top of that my parents think my salary is way too low but beggars can't be choosers right4 -
My internship is about to end in two months. I was under the impression that I'll start looking for a job towards mid August and then decide what to do. I didn't expect my company to offer me a position so early before my internship ended.
Initially I had liked the place. The work was pretty relaxed and I had quite a bit of freedom. Soon enough, I proved my worth and my team started respecting my opinions and suggestions. They even consulted me on multiple occasions.
The first thing I noticed on the downside was the company, despite being resourceful enough and having a decent turnover and important clients, was quite stingy in terms of employee welfare. There was no coffee. There was machine but you had to buy the capsule for yourself. And that sucks. I know I don't need to say more but the other problems were there was no enterprise subscription (or any subscription) to PhpStorm even though our team handled so many PHP projects. I know IDEs are personal preferences but not having any professional IDEs is not something to let slide. The lead dev uses NetBeans (and not because he loved it or anything). Even though I worked on WebDev and front end, I had no option to ask for a second screen. I had one display apart from my laptop. Usually most companies in Paris provides food tickets for internships and this company did not even give me that. And worst of all, there wasn't really anyone I looked up to. As much as I enjoy responsibilities and all, I don't think I should be in an environment where I have nothing much to learn from my seniors. For some fucked sense of security and certainty, I was willing to overlook all this when they offered me a position. But I recently had my interview and the regional manager, a fuck face who still makes me wonder how he reached his position, made a proposal for some quite a small amount of salary. What infuriated more than his justifications was his attitude itself. There was absolutely no respect whatsoever. It was more like "We'll give you this, I think this is more than enough for you. Take it or do whatever you want". I asked for more and he didn't even bother negotiating. I declined the offer.
Now this would have solved all the issues. But my manager and my lead dev like me a lot. Both of them are pretty nice people. They both were bothered with the fact that I had turned down the offer. My manager even agreed that the offer was too low and had already given me tips to help me negotiate. But after I turned down the offer, she went and discussed the issue with the regional manager and he offered me a new proposal. This time it was decent but still under my expectations. I'm pretty sure I can do better elsewhere. I said I need time to think about it. I get multiple advises from people to take it atleast so that I get my visa converted to a work permit. For some reason, I want to take the risk and say no. And find something else. But today my lead dev called me aside and asked me if was going to say no. He really tried to influence me by telling me a lot of good things about me and telling me about the number of different projects we're going to start next month and all that. Even though I'm fully convinced that I don't want to work here, just the sheer act of saying no to these two people I respect is sooo fucking difficult for me that I can already imagine me working here for the next one year. The worst part is I can clearly classify their words and sentences into stuff they say to canvass me, stuff they're bullshitting about and flattery just to make me stay. Despite knowing I'm being taken advantage of, some fucked up module in my head wouldn't stop guilt tripping me. I don't know what to do. If I only I could find a really better job.
Pardon the grammatical errors if any. I'm just venting out and my thoughts branch in 500 different ways simultaneously.5 -
Something I have learnt in the past month:
Never settle for a low salary no matter how good a company sounds (unless it's a really prestige company) if they don't realise your worth and don't care about their employees. Salary is important. You are important. And customers are important. Any company that just values money, income, profit and growth over their customer and employee experience is a huge red flag. If your work life is so stressful that it doesn't let you have a good work/life balance then avoid it. What comes above being a developer is being healthy and I think alot of people don't realise this. It may sound good to work as an engineer for a big platform but if they only value themselves you are just a cheap slave, move on and do something respectable and enjoyable.
Just my life lesson in applying for grad jobs.4 -
I was underestimated about tech skills and earning, because I use PHP at work. I agree that PHP sucks and it's used by a lot of developers who don't know how it works. But the legacy systems I work on now compose a platform used by more than 400K users. In addition, I used to use C++ for game programming and Java for web systems. Also I'm playing with Node.js and javascript for my personal projects. In my experience, I don't think PHP is easy to make things work as expected. Plus, I don't get low salary compared to the others in this region. It's always very hard to explain how I'm working as a PHP developer. At the moment of underestimation, I was feeling so bad, but I couldn't say anything. It might lead a religious argue. Any advice?22
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Today was my last day at my old job. At my last monthly review, the CEO actually said to me how things would be much better if I were making enough sales happen on the websites to justify my (very low) annual salary. I checked the numbers on my way out the door. In the past 8 months I definitely cleared that threshold and then some. I wonder if he would've given me the next 4 months off with pay. LOL
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Just need to vent, so here goes:
Fuck doing cutting edge projects for great glory, low budgets and tight deadlines. I'm tired, burnt out and just don't give a shit anymore.
I got promoted to lead dev and thought my fortune was made but what it really meant was just: Here solve all these bullshit bugs that the rest of the team can't figure out and oh we are also taking this single app you guys made and scaling it globally. You have half a year to figure that out. You handle the devops.... sigh
Fuck that noise.
Honestly i just feel like quitting and finding a nice specialist place, with a cap of at max Senõr developer, no more being the one making the big decisions for me, rather just diving into certain areas and coding the fuck out of that. Maybe some teaching too, i like that.
Anyway, won't happen right now, i need the salary. My wife just graduated and can't find a job what with a certain flu fucking over the economy, so I am stuck here for now.2 -
This is real rant, not one of these funny stories!
So, I spent 4 years to get a Computer Science degree, and did two specializations, 3.5 years more in Uni. I have 6 years of experience working in IT, from support to programming. I also speak 3 languages.
I'm from a South America country, and now I'm living in EU.
I'm 30 now and earning a little more than a MacDonald's cashier earns in the US. I have to live in a shared apartment like a fucking Uni student. I have nothing, no car, no house, no girlfriend. WTF!
IT is a fucking lie! Profession of the future my ass!
In Uni they said that finding a good job was easy, that companies would literally grab us by the neck to work for them. LIE!
I did found a low paying job though, where at least I could learn a lot more.
People were really satisfied with my work and I even received a proposal of one of our clients to work for them, but the offer wasn't good enough.
I tried entering some big companies as a Trainee, but it was so ridiculous, they said they were looking for an IT person, but they asked things related to economy and other stuff that had nothing to do with IT. I always failed in the group work/interview, it was so ridiculous, I remember one candidate saying her dream was to work for the company since she was a child, SERIOUSLY!
When the opportunity came, I moved to EU and now I'm working as a dev. But as I said, I'm not satisfied with it! In the US the yearly average software engineer salary is about 100K, I earn less than 1/4 of it. And don't come saying that US pays more because of the cost of life, here the cost of life is the same or even more expensive, a super small apartment/loft is at least 180K, a simple new car 18K and a Big Mac costs 4€.
In the US, the average salary of someone that just graduated from uni is 60K to 70K! LOL
In EU, it's super hard for someone to earn 100K, that's why many companies are creating offices here, good workforce, 2 to 3 times smaller salary!
IT also sucks because it's too volatile, there's new stuff all the time. Someone always has to come with a new language, new framework, new library, etc etc. And you have to keep learning new stuff all the time.
Also job openings always ask for experienced people, like you must have at least two years of experience with VUE.js, or something.
Do you remember the last time you went to a doctor for a checkup, did they use a new tool, or did something different during the checkup? Probably not, the medic don't have to learn new stuff all the time, he is still using a stethoscope, he is still placing a wooden stick in your mouth to check your throat...
But in IT, almost no one nowadays is going to create code using CoffeeScript, they instead will use TypeScript.
I read an article saying that an IT professional must study 20 hours a week to keep up with new trends. So I must work 40 hours and study another 20? LOL
It's not that I don't like learning new stuff, but this sucks, I want to maybe learn something different or have a hobby.
Today I regret going to uni, I feel it was a waste of time and money. They taught things like calculus and physics that I never had to use professionally, and even programming stuff like linked lists I never had to use.
If instead I had studied dentistry or studied to be a ophthalmologist I think I would be earning more, would be working more independently and wouldn't need to keep up learning new things so much.
Also to work in IT you don't need a diploma, I read an article by a dude that learned programming by his own, did some software for his portfolio and got a job at Google.
When I read these kinds of story I regret even more going to uni, It really feels I wasted my time.
For these reasons I can't recommend going to uni to study IT, if you want to go to uni go study something else!
If you want to study programming do it on your own, there's everything you must know online for free, create a portfolio, and look for a job or even try working for yourself!
Living the life I have now, there's just no incentive to keep going.
Should I keep learning new stuff so maybe I can get a better job that will still pay low, or quit and try creating something on my own?
Or even ditch IT all together and go back to uni? LOL NO!5 -
Toughest part of dev interviews? There are multiple I can think of.
Getting an interview altogether in this dumpster fire of an economy.
Negotiating salary (i.e. prevent getting a low-ball offer)
When the interviewer is a dev themselves and they get on a power trip and ask you the toughest/trickiest questions.
Convincing the interviewer that something you don't know now can be learned later just by googling and tinkering around.
Trying not to burst out in anger when you get asked stupid questions like "Why aren't you married?"9 -
As a person from low-paying country, how do I reconcile with the fact that for the same work, and the same 8 hours, I get 1/3 of what a person in Germany does? In my previous team (same company), one of my teammates was from Germany. The same team, the same work, but he happened to earn a lot more.
This bothers me a lot sometimes. I have seen people requesting to be transferred to another country, and being denied, presumably because of the salary difference. Then, the person leaves, and someone in Australia gets hired. So, rather than moving a veteran person of whom you know fits your company culture to a higher-paying country, you let him go and hire a newbie in an equally-expensive country? What the fuckity fuck?
And to my friends from high-paying countries, especially managers: you don't have to feel bad, but have some common decency. If you come to my country, do not say "oh gosh, everything here is so cheap," or "the dinner for the whole team costs less than buying my family of four a dinner back home." That's offensive as fuck. If that's the case, fucking give me a raise you cheap fuck!30 -
High paying unstable job at a startup vs. Low paying stable job at a huge company.
I'm currently at the latter and I'm expecting a job offer (hopefully!) from the other one today.
Low paying job:
Pros:
1) big name. (their stock has recently gone down tho)
2) insurance and stuff.
3) quite stable.
4) can re-skill and move to another team.
5) work from home.
Cons:
1) shit technologies.
2) lots of fake "we are a family" kinda crap.
3) shit pay for a huge company.
4) boring. I feel very unmotivated.
5) obsolete systems and management processes.
6) it would take years to save for a car even with my upcoming promotion pay raise.
High paying job:
Pros:
1) awesome salary. Like 6x my current.
2) up-to-date technologies. Something I'm passionate about.
3) team lead position.
4) I can buy a car in a couple of months.
5) might get a visa sponsorship in the future.
6) small team, my voice will be heard.
Cons:
1) it's a startup so it can go down anytime.
2) no insurance or any kinda benefits.
3) no work laptop.
I'm kinda in the beginning of my career, so my gut is telling me to risk it and go for the unstable job.
It will be my first time to be an "official" team lead and honestly idk how I'll go about it yet.
Which one would you go for?
And wish me luck! The interview went pretty well but I'm dreading for some reason.17 -
I am torn apart for several months now. My boss and coworkers are amazing people, projects are quite fun and interesting, workplace is close to home and they pay for my exams (step by step reaching for MCSD certification), but...
The salary if fcking low (you could probably earn same ammount while working as a waitress of normal restaurant). Not only for me of course, but still :( Now I am thinking of running to some bank and doing boring programming job coding same tasks again and again, but getting payed very well4 -
Whenever I see job postings with salaries this low I always wonder exactly what's going through the minds of the people running the company.
Who in their right mind would want to spend 4+ years working hard on a CS degree only to be offered less than what the average retail manager earns? I barely afford a 1 bed flat share on this salary in my part of the country...
I'm starting to run into more and more job adverts like this. Why are companies working so hard to rip of graduates?
13 -
Any time I feel like looking for something new because my salary is low, I remember that I would have to go through recruiters, HR, and job interviews and decide to just chill until the next raise.3
-
You want me to work in-loco, even thought my job can be done remotely? That's fine.
Your company's offices are located in a expensive district of a expensive European capital? That's fine too.
You want to pay me a salary so low, that I can only afford to live 2 hours away from work? Fuck That!!!
If your company is in a expensive location, either offer me a high salary or stop bothering me with bad job offers. -
Reasons to NOT be a dev sounds rather negative so I'd like to propose 3 things that you need to BE a dev as to frame it in a positive light:
- When a problem peaks your interest you want to solve it, you may even be obsessed by it.
- You enjoy learning, not necessarily enjoy school, just enjoy learning new things (even better if it's by your own means)
- Failure may get you down, but you learn and don't give up until you have exhausted all paths to success.
You may need other skills like math, logic and reasoning abilities, being able to handle deadlines, attention to detail, and cope with stress. I've seen people being crap at all of those and if they have the former 3 they, in time, will hone the others enough to make them a productive dev.
No need to be a 9-9-6 code monkey willing to be squeezed by Big Corp for massive profits and a low salary or a 1337 purist coder that only focuses on the crafting side of developing software. That may make you a great coder but not a well rounded developer or individual. Remember, you program machines but you are NOT one.
10 -
I used to be at a company where it was kind of expected that you worked long days, which made it quite difficult to balance work and private life. It got so out of control that I was even called to work while I was on my holiday. At first I started with shutting off my phone after work hours, but the real solution I found was moving away from that company.
Pretty much everyone at my new company just stops working when the clock hits 4 or 5 pm unless there is something critical that needs to be done. Seeing that also discourages me (and everyone else) from working long days. We are also quite open about our workload so if anyone thinks they’re overwhelmed they can find a relevant person to talk to and eventually a solution is found. The salary isn’t incredible, but the work/life balance and the benefits I get are just way better than getting paid more and living to work.
I think a lot of people go for the high salaries, most of the time disregarding the other part of the equation. If the company has a meh work culture with low regard to employees’ work/life balance, there isn’t much the employee can do besides finding a place to work with better wlb. I’d pick a great work/life balance and peace of mind to a high salary any day.1 -
So I just finished my degree and started working here at a small game development company that makes board games for mobiles (android/ios) using Unity. I love Unity and have built some demos and all for my college projects before.
They said there will be a training period but all they make me do is integrate firebase and other ad network plugins into their shitty game project.
And above that I'm offered only $200 a month. My college made me believe that you must get employed however low the salary is, no matter what. Fuck this shit.
I'd rather like to make my own game someday and make money off that than to work at this nihilistic place.2 -
I wanted to talk about the right job.
In my previous job I did not feel happy, the management was weird, the salary was low.
For a time I was thinking, I need to get better and do more and I will have a better salary and management will be more lenient towards me.
After a few years, I got an offer to join a much bigger company with a bigger salary and better benefits.
I joined them of course. And it turns out in some places you just do not fit in or the company just wants something that is not realistic and always will be unhappy with you.
In my current company, I have never felt better working, the team is awesome and tasks are challenging but doable, and they appreciate my skills and speed of work.
TL;DR:
If you do not feel good in your company, leave for some other company, most likely it's not you, but its the job that sucks.2 -
So what exactly does "Learning" mean in a tech industry?
From my experience,
"learning" from college's pov
"Welcome to the class. your parents has paid us already for this. Now we are supposed to stand here for next 6 months, study very slowly and learn about the topics of our curriculum and give a test on it. we might as well make a good nice project to check our knowledge"
(worst college will also add "Sorry the above message was just fiction, i am here to drink tea & enjoy my day,while you guys are here to enjoy,mark attendance and get a degree because we only care about our reputation and we are gonna pass you anyway")
"learning" from startups pov:
"Here is an idea, here is a design, here is your months salary and here is your deadline.
Make a 100% polished,working product out of it before the deadline. You are solely responsible for this project and you have to figure out on your own how to make our fantasy idea into reality before deadline hits( else you are shit).
This way you learn.
We will also provide you with a free all time learning course on how to be fine without getting any respect for your hardwork and tolerate our insults, which will help you in the life long journey of dealing assholes.
Our company is great and providing you an amazing learning opportunity, kiss our feet."
(worst startups will also add "We don't have/ wont provide you any seniors to help you with this stuff, the internet is your source of truth"/ "if you don't hit the deadline, your salary will get deducted"/ "work on weekends to hit the deadline")
"Learning" from an MNC pov (never really experienced those but from what i have heard):
"Welcome to our company. we here provide you with a similar experience as that of your shitty college during training period and then put you in low brain-ish low paying repetitive job for life until you leave us or we find a replacement for your work or salary"5 -
Ranted about this before, but...
>have likely ADHD
>poor performance
>can't get raise because of poor performance
>can't afford treatment because low salary
It sucks.2 -
is being a tech/dev person, a dead end job?
i have been thinking about this for sometime. as a dev, we can progress into senior dev, then tech lead, then staff engineer probably. but that is that. for a tech person :
1. their salary levels are defined. for eg, a junior may earn $10k pm , and the highest tech guy (say staff engineer) will earn $100k pm, but everyone's salary will be spread over this range only, in different slots.
2. some companies give stocks and bonuses , but most of the time that too is fixed to say 30% of the annual salary at max.
3. its a low risk job as a min of x number of tech folks are always required for their tech product to work properly. plus these folks are majorly with similar skills, so 2 react guys can be reduced to 1 but not because of incompetency .
4. even if people are incompetent, our domain is friendly and more like a community learning stuff. we share our knowledge in public domain and try to make things easy to learn for other folks inside and outside the office. this is probably a bad thing too
compare this to businesses , management and sales they have different:
1. thier career progression : saleman > sales team manager> branch manager > multiple branch manager(director) > multiple zones/state manager (president) > multiple countries/ company manager (cxo)
2. their salaries are comission based. they get a commission in the number of sales they get, later theybget comission in the sales of their team> their branch > their zone and finally in company's total revenue. this leads to very meagre number in salaries, but a very major and mostly consistent and handsome number in commission. that is why their salaries ranges from $2k pm to $2-$3millions per month.
3. in sales/management , their is a always a room for optimisation . if a guy is selling less products, than another guy, he could be fired and leads could be given to other/new person. managers can optimise the cost/expenses chain and help company generate wider profits. overall everyone is running for (a) to get an incentive and (b) to dodge their boss's axe.
4. this makes it a cut-throat and a network-first domain. people are arrogant and selfish, and have their own special tricks and tactics to ensure their value.
as a manager , you don't go around sharing the stories on how you got apple to partner with foxconn for every iphone manufacturing, you just enjoy the big fat bonus check and awe of inspiration that your junior interns make.
this sound a little bad , but on the contrary , this involves being a people person and a social animal. i remember one example from the office web series, where different sales people would have different strategies for getting a business: Michael would go wild, Stanley would connect with people of his race, and Phyllis would dress up like a client's wife.
in real life too, i have seen people using various social cues to get business. the guy from whom we bought our car, he was so friendly with my dad, i once thought that they are some long lost brothers.
this makes me wonder : are sales/mgmt people being better at being entrepreneur and human beings than we devs?
in terms of ethics, i don't think that people who are defining their life around comissions and cut throat races to be friendly or supportive beings. but at the same time, they would be connecting with people and their real problems, so they might become more helpful than their friends/relatives and other "good people" ?
Additionally, the skills of sales/mgmt translate directly to entrepreneurship, so every good salesman/manager is a billionaire in making. whereas we devs are just being peas in a pod , debating on next big npm package and trying to manage taxes on our already meagre , "consistent" income :/
mann i want some people skills like these guys10 -
Wise people of devrant (yeah, I know, oxymoron) I need your advice. I had a well paying job as a senior FE engineer at a startup but our product became obsolete after the latest AI advances so I was laid off. I've been trying to find something at the same salary I was earning for the past 2 months but I see that it's difficult. Latest attempt was for a team lead position but I failed that. When I failed I saw that the same company opened up a FE Engineer position and I asked if I can apply for that one. Recruiter said that I could but for a salary that's 25% less than my previous one. From this I understood that they like me, but maybe my technical level was too low for team lead. It's kind of a lowball offer and I'm not strapped for cash, but the salary they're offering is still very high for my country. On one hand, I'm dealing with some mental health issues these days so I'd like the reduced stress and responsibilities of a lower level position. On the other hand, I worry that I'll feel resentment and look to move in a year or two. If they gave me 10% more I would be happy and accept. Should I try to negotiate? Should I keep looking?12
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The near future is in IOT and device programming...
In ten years most of us will have some kind of central control and more and more stuff connected to IOT, security will be even a bigger problem with all the Firmware bugs and 0-day exploits, and In 10 years IOT programmers will be like today's plumbers... You need one to make a custom build and you must pay an excessive hour salary.
My country is already getting Ready, I'm starting next month a 1-year course on automation and electronics programming paid by the government.
On the other hand, most users will use fewer computers and more tablets and phones, meaning jobs in the backend and device apps programming and less in general computer programs for the general public.
Programmers jobs will increase as general jobs decrease, as many jobs will be replaced by machines, but such machines still need to be programmed, meaning trading 10 low-level jobs for 1 or 2 programming jobs.
Unlike most job areas, self-tough and Bootcamp programmers will have a chance for a job, as experience and knowledge will be more important than a "canudo" (Portuguese expression for the paper you get at the end of a university course). And we will see an increase of Programmer jobs class, with lower paid jobs for less experienced and more well-paid jobs for engineers.
In 10 years the market will be flooded with programmers and computer engineers, as many countries are investing in computer classes in the first years of the kids, So most kids will know at least one programming language at the end of their school and more about computers than most people these days. -
If you apply to a company for a web dev job and their website is a one pager that absolutely sucks and the content written gives the impression they dont know what they are doing should u aim high or low in the expected salary question 🧐4
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TL;DR: I'm losing touch with reality and relatability and I am seeing it happen to me.
Context: As a dev, as we all do, I started with a low salary and was poor for the first 4 years of my career. I used to take pride in my poverty and because of it I faced difficulties in life.
Somehow because of that (and drugs), it gave me a fun personality and I was able to crack jokes about it and laugh it off. I was fun at parties.
But now, with moderate struggle, things are much better for me. I'm a YouTuber, I have clients and a full time job and I end up making the salary from just one client what I used to make in 2018 from a full-time office job.
Now, when anyone jokes about being poor and struggling, although I can still laugh with them, I pity them. I feel they are not working hard enough (even though I'm aware that I don't know their story, so it's a bad judgement and unfair).
I can no longer relate to my past self.
For me, I get sad about myself that I still don't have enough, while knowing I have more than what I could ask for.
I know this is not a good thing to happen to me, but it feels like I'm helpless. Sigh, I'm becoming a boomer aren't I?2 -
Question for friends in Europe,
How much salary should I ask for?
Context: been applying and interviewing with companies in Europe (London, Amsterdam, Paris, Berlin). Basically tier 1 cities.
I have done some Glassdoor research. But how much shall I ask for given that I have 7.5 years of industry experience and working as a Senior Product Manager.
Given the taxation, cost of living, and other factors. What would be a good amount to not overshoot but also not get low balled?20 -
Any senior dev who get less paid in terms of his juniors or am I the only one?
If anyone who is in same shoes like me please suggest how to cope with the feeling of unrest and feel less miserable.6 -
Im currently working on a third world Software Dev Agency as Backend Engineer for 250 bucks. My friend, with same experience than me, got a job on an startup and is getting 4k as Frontend Engineer with something of Backend. Yes, i tried to apply at startups too, but no response never.13
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Incoming rant.
I have 4 years professional experience at a small shop working on a web application for property and liability insurance. The application is ASP.NET with C# as the code-behind. I have a BCS and will finish my MSIS fall 2017. I have no idea why I have the degrees. I know that when I enrolled, it seemed like they would be a nice addition to an otherwise empty resume. I was lucky enough to land my first and only development job during my sophomore year of my undergraduate program. Is this enough experience to land a new job?
I feel like I'm learning nothing at my current job. The specs that come in seem very vague to me. When asked for clarification, there is often push back, and I don't know whether that's because I don't have enough experience to parse what the client means in the two sentence spec I got or if it's because the client does not actually know what they want.
I hate my current job. My productivity is low because I spend more time trying to figure out what the client wants and analyzing an 8 year old system that has 0 documentation. I know some of you will just say, "Suck it up" at this point, but I really want another job. The only thing I like about this job is that it's 100% remote. It also pays $60k a year, so a replacement should be at least that salary.
Most postings I see require professional experience of 5 years or more, and knowledge of other frameworks. I can work on getting knowledge of the other frameworks, but will have no professional experience with them. I don't live in an area with a lot of software development jobs, and the ones I see are for non-IT organizations that want 1 person to run a distributed system from 10 or more locations. A hospital system out here wants to pay $30k a year for a guy to be both software developer for new tools as well as the helpdesk and IT support guy that's on-call for four locations in the county. I made more than that before I got into the development industry, for less work, and would rather leave than settle for something like that.
I've thought about moving to somewhere near San Francisco or San Jose, but I have my daughter to think about. I have joint custody of her, and would have to give that up in order to move out of the county.
I like programming and using it to solve problems. I like designing architectures and how all the components will interface. I like designing and normalizing databases. I like taking part in coding competitions for employers that are well-known (Amazon, Facebook, Uber, Twitch, etc.), even though I often just place middle of the pack. When that happens, I feel like I'm an imposter in this industry.
I think I have the most fun just working on small projects for personal use. My latest is an assistant calculator for the game Transport Fever to figure out cargo throughputs per annum based on the in-game timing information. Past projects have also been small. Ones I could use in a portfolio are a sudoku solver desktop application, PC/Web game in Unity that is a 3D FPS remake of Duck Hunt that allows open world exploration but locks the camera's viewpoint for shooting events, and a building assistant for Rome II: Total War that maps out all the bonuses/perks of user-specified building combinations in provinces so users can record their long term building plans without using all their turns to see the final results.
I seem to be an unproductive, average developer who dabbles in projects here and there.
This is what I want from other Ranters. Just say something. I don't care if it is, "Suck it up and get better." It could be your tips for finding and securing a new position. It could even be empathy, if such a thing exists on the Internet. Whatever you want, just say something that will help get me thinking of what the next steps in my career should be.1 -
Some had teased me a bit on my previous meme so let me tell my anecdote...
I have to tell you a rather funny anecdote that happened to me during a job interview..
To put you in context, I am a front/back developer and the language where I perform best is JS. I started learning JS at an early age during an open source project to make animations on websites then I also quickly moved to the backend using NodeJS. I gained a lot of experience by going to small start-ups and this time if I wanted to try my luck on big companies in the field of video games.
So I wanted to present some projects to my interlocutor who seemed to be someone with an important position in the company, about 26 years old and we talked about the JS language. I showed him all my projects including those where I was doing free/open source and also in the field of video games such as volunteering like the back off https://mylolmmr.com And suddenly he called out to me and said "JS is not a real language".
I must confess that I was quite disturbed by his assertion and did not understand his condescension or his belittlement. This mind...
Especially since I find it extremely misleading to say that the JS language is not a real language when you know its advantages and disadvantages, but I did not dare to express myself on this subject and we continued the interviews, even though he saw that it bothered me.
The funny thing is that once the interview is over and I decide to go home and I receive a call from the company in question who wanted me to take a technical test telling me that the oral interview was successful...
I reassure you right away, I refused.. For a question of salary which was extremely low and obviously the bad experience with this famous director.
3 -
I have a genuine question for y’all folks: How do you define what’s your next job going to be ? As in what you set your mind to, I guess. I’ve been through multiple stages of thoughts during the past two years and I find myself stuck.
On the one hand I work at a decent company and I have a great team with a lot of benefits and an OK salary but on the other hand I want change, more challenges and to get a little bit more of 💰(I’m not complaining about what I have but I’m clearly on the low tiers of the salary range for a software engineer).
At first I thought I wanted to completely change my work area and go for music, then I thought I wanted to work for the biggest IT players (Google, Microsoft, etc…). Turns out none of these two ideas really suit me. I also don’t want to work in a startup, I’ve only had bad experiences so far and don’t seek to reproduce them yet again.
So I guess a more precise question is: If you were in my shoes, with all that in mind, what would you do?
As for the reasoning as to why I’m asking here: devRant is literally the only place I know with so many people that work in the same field, but that also have a lot of different experiences and background 😁2 -
Another curious question.
How much is your hour worth? In average. Mine is no more than $10/hr and probably $5/hr sometimes.
Whether freelance hours or full time salary. So I will know how low are dev getting in my country. And then probably I can cry myself to sleep. 😁5 -
Low performance because of shitty attention span and high procrastination
Don't get higher salary because low performance
With low salary I can't go to a professional to get a medication prescription and couldn't afford medication anyway
I just wanted to have a life and live it, be able to afford to go on dates or just do things, afford a car so I can go anywhere, I had this little online romance where I couldn't afford to go see the girl, she ended up just ghosting me and it fucking destroyed me
To get this low-paying job, I was forced to open a company to work as a contractor in order to circumvent labor laws (common practice in my country, encouraged by shitty labor laws and unstable local currency); I end up having to pay to get paid
To top it all, the government just wants more and more taxes and my pay is worth less and less
My mom wasted all her money and now needs my help
I should just find a way to kill myself1 -
The Economists department where I'm getting a PhD announced a 'great' job opportunity in the State Manufacturing Federation. It seemed truly great, it was an interest job and it required every single ability I've been developing over these years: coding, database management, statistical analysis, geoprocessing and making of maps... But the salary was offensively low. That day I realized how much I'm valued in the market. *sigh*
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Worked as android dev for 2.5 year and then worked as java gameserver dev for 2 years.
Now I wanna go back to android dev so I spent the last month grinding kotlin/android basics and already have 2 interviews lined up this week. Applying for junior dev role because of my gap and because my confidence in my android ability currently is really low. Having ADD doesnt help because I suck in memorizing implementations, syntax and I suck at live coding under pressure.
Fuck it I will set their expectations low, will get lower salary and hopefully will impress the hell out of them during first few months. Wel see what happens...
Any tips/advices?4 -
It started when life caught me off guard. It was one of those transition moment when you realized you are no longer a college student and you need to get a job.
I was clueless that time (still clueless - smh) that I didn't prepare my CV nor interviews. I got into panic mode and ask help from career service in my college (I rarely ask for help, and when I did that, I am really desperate).
Long story short, I got a job from the career service's connection. I don't think I did well in both the interview and technical test (of course, no prep or whatsoever, what do you expect?) but seems like we both in need of each other (maybe because my grades when I was in college is good... and maybe because my starting salary is low enough... and maybe because there was no better candidate at that moment) that I get picked.3 -
So I'm about to get a job offer
For some context, I live in a low tax country and my gross salary is 56k (incl bonus). I take home about 3600 per month. And there's a 10% bonus
Next month I have a raise to 61k and will take home 4000.
I just finished a few interviews with a very interesting company in another country and the recruiter says they are offering max 66k.
Problem is, it's in a high tax country (Sweden) . So that 66k means take home pay of 3600... That's a 9% pay cut over what I will make starting next month.
Now I'm not sure how to approach this. I calculated what I want (10-15% raise over my current - next month's - salary and the number is *way* higher: 90k.. This means take home 4600 (15% increase)
I also calculated what it would take to match my employer and even that is much higher at 77k.
The recruiter asked me what they would need to offer me for me to accept and says max budget is 66k. This is of course after I told him 66k would net me less than I make now...
There's also the possibility of working remotely (as a contractor I am guessing) from where I am, and I think in that case the 66k would net me roughly the same as my employer, but I'm not sure as there might be additional costs.
But being a contractor means the employer doesn't pay any tax contributions for me, right? I calculated they would be paying 22k tax (on top of 66k salary) which as I understand is freed up. If that's the case maybe I should be asking for more (as contractor)?
How do I approach this? Anyone been in a similar situation?16 -
How much salary should I ask for in Germany?
Specifically near Frankfurt, in aerospace sector. I have seen 58k gross yearly but seems to be a bit low to my liking. I am expecting 40/45% tax rate but not sure about that too.11 -
Don't just think starting salary - think about your income over the course of your working life.
Your starting salary might be high - but it might mean that your ceiling after that is quite low. If you reach your ceiling too soon, you'll have to retrain to get more dough.
Retraining is starting again and might not jive very well with a partner and children in tow.3 -
It's ok to deal with PHP.
It's (kinda of) ok to make new stuff with It.
Stop pretending that it's not broken.
(I know php8 blah blah, but let's face it, without a good framework it's unmanteinable)
I dunno, i'm just frustrated by the low salary that PHP give to me.17 -
I had an interview for a position with an initial part-time duration of 2 months.
It was a team lead role with full-time work only after two months. After some discussion about the role and the compensation, they asked me to get back with my expected salary for the part-time duration (they had a low number in mind from what I could understand as they were comparing it with my previous salary).
So considering what they were going to offer me for the full-time position, the part-time duration (3 hrs/day for two months), and the lead role, I followed up with a higher number (with some reasoning behind it) than they mentioned during the call.
I did not hear back from them after this. -
TL;DR how much do I charge?
I'm freelancing for the first time; regularly, I get paid a salary.
I'm freelancing as a donation: the hours I put into this work directly translate to deductions in my tax. I don't get paid any money directly.
I'm doing some web-based enterprise software for an organization. Handling the whole process from writing responsive front-end code to setting up the server and domain for them and even managing myself. So full stack plus dev ops.
My normal salary is $31 an hour and at work I do less. I largely do maintenance for existing applications plus some very minor new systems design. I don't do any server management (different team) and I damn well didn't buy the domain names for my company. So I think it's safe to say I'm taking on a drastically larger role in this freelance gig.
My moral dilemma is the organization will basically say yes to any price - because they don't pay it, the government will (up until the point I pay 0 taxes, I suppose)
I've done some minor research on what other freelancers charge for somewhat similar things and I get pretty wildly varying results. I've seen as low as $20/hr but I really doubt the quality of such a service at that price.
I'm thinking around $50 USD an hour would be a fair price. For even further reference besides my actual salary, I will say that I am in a urban / suburban part of Florida, where developers are very hard to find locally.
Is $50 too high? Too low? This is a very complicated system with (frankly excessive) security practices and features. Before this they had a handful of excel spreadsheets in a OneDrive folder.7 -
Story Time.
I used to live in a hostel meant for professionals with two strangers in 2017, back when my salary was way too low to rent a flat on my own.
One afternoon I was just sitting around and looked at my contacts list which were about 50-60 people in total.
I started selecting people whom I hadn't spoken to for more than 6 months, and it was almost all of them except 2-3 people which were my brother, mom and dad.
Then I hit the delete button, I guess out of anger or me feeling lonely at the time. I wanted to see who remembers me or tries to reach out, given that I don't have their number.
And all these years later, it's still 2 people who I have in my phone contacts list. My mom and dad.
Since then, I am super exclusive to adding anyone's phone number to my list. I usually save their contact and start a chat on Whatsapp and delete their contact after for 6 months or more. When someone does text, I read their previous chat to remember who they are.
People come and go, but a corner of my mind wishes for that person who makes it into the list.
I kinda feel a little broken as I am typing this, but idk it might be the loneliness kicking in, idk. It is what it is.4 -
Am really worried about this major ( Computer science major ) in my country ( Lebanon ).
We have a very good potentials and very low salaries compared to it. And in case we apply abroad there is always an indian who have the same experience at least and most of them request a very low salary.
Trust me am really worried.2 -
I am a Computer Science student which started work for a company 5 months ago being paid 20k. In the same time I am working on a project for somewhere over 17 pounds an hour. The guys on that project want to keep me for good to work with them on projects (they are a software company ran by a friend of my best friend) but the problem is they are in Europe and they can only offer me freelance work. This place I am working at is great but the salary increases are low. I have a colleague working there for 3 and a half years running a big chunk of their operations and he is making a petty 33k. I do not know what to do, should I job hop after 6 months and work with those amazing people for a bigger salary even if they are in Europe or should I keep hanging on this job on the current wage with maybe a 5k increase by the end of the year because it is more stable? I am curious to hear about similar experiences and how other people will perceive me by doing this step.4
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So, I have joined this new company where I used to work few years back. Something happened before I rejoined, so no one is working there now except me. It's web agency run by my boss and I am the only employee working on over 7 projects including front end, back end, mobile, devops, and some marketing also.
Now, I got offers from couple of other series a funded startups who are willing to pay me 30% more salary. I know I will have less responsibility and more work life balance. But I hate the politics in those companies.
My current company is making good revenue but my boss isn't giving me the salary I am expecting.
He said it will take few more months to give me the salary I demanded.
I also want to build my own company and provide services someday. That's why I thought it'll be better to stick with the company so that I cam learn other aspects of the business.
So. If the company is making say over 200k usd a year and its paying me around 23k usd per year, isn't this kinda low salary for my experience, skills and value I bring?
How should I go about asking a raise?
Also, I don't wanna move to another big tech company. I hate coding questions in the interview as its been years I have prepared for a proper tech interview.
Also, how secure do you think my job is? Is there any future working here? Will I ever be able to reach a salary comparable to big tech companies?
Is it a good place be in right now? (i jave over 5 years of experience)5 -
I’m 20 years old MERN (Mongodb, Express.js, React.js, Node.js) Stack Developer, Working in a start up as a full time employee. They’re paying me 20k (INR) (< $300)/month. I’m in 2nd year of my college for my Bachelor’s Degree in computer Science. My Job is work from home. I’m doing programming for 4 years now. I have 1 year full time experience and extra 6 months internship in the same company and also doing freelance for 1 year. I’ve worked on many technologies like AWS, Azure, GCP, React, Tailwindcss, Flutter, Node.js, Express.js, Docker, Vercel, Linux and keep learning things cause I love doing this. But I think my salary is too low, I work 6 days/ week. They promised me that they’ll increase my salary but I don’t think they will. I think there is a lot I can achieve but nothing I can see right now. I’m not comparing myself to anyone but I think I’m eligible to get good food and good Education cause I’m paying for everything (College, food, etc). Family is not supporting after I started earning. I’ve basic understanding of DSA, Networking, etc. Pls Guide me, Please like what to do.. should I leave my job, if I do then I’ve to serve 45 days of notice period.. They said they’ll raise some amount from this new year. So should I wait to get the offer letter then should I quit.. and even after I quit then where should I apply? Should I apply abroad or Bengaluru? Should I take IELTS Certificate or any other tech certifications? Please Help, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE🙏🙏🙏4
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Just got an offer for a mid engineer position. The pay is actually less than what I currently make. I get that different companies have different salary expectations. But this company is actually closer to a major tech hub then where I'm at. They actually came in 5k less then what I asked for. But here's the real kicker, I'd only start with 7 days of PTO and 5 recognized holidays. This seems super low to me. So the question is, what's everyone's expectations (particularly in the US) for PTO? I get 15 right now and 8 recognized holidays. Which seems reasonable.8
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