Fuck javascript
Fuck css
Fuck even html
And fuck web dev in general.
i can't do this shit anymore.

i've been working in web for ~2.5 years, 4 different companies, countless frameworks, technologies and tools and it feels good having that kind of knowledge and ability to do anything in this field, but god damn. I'm exhausted of "moving pixels" most of the time.

And i know, maybe different company and position would better suit me, but how often do people hire pure breed back-enders ? not that often, at least not in my country. Everyone has to do everything. And even then, php/sql/sysadmin/devops work doesn't motivate me as much. I need something that would make me actually think.

And so i decided to change my specialty, i'm going to follow my long lived dream - game dev (C++) :)

Oh i know, i'm not naive. I know how difficult and hard it is, but it seems like i've finally matured for it. So i've been waking up at 5 a.m and learning for ~3 hours before work for a few weeks now, and plan to go part-time at my work, after a few months (need to save up some money) for ~6 months, to focus on C++

Then hopefully i'll be able to land a junior position. If not, well, i wouldn't be a problem solver if i let that get to me :)

This Christmas, I hereby call for a total and complete shutdown of new css/js frameworks until we can figure out what the hell is going on.

Watching a cookery program and it made me think it must be hard being a chef.

Then it made me think that being a web developer is a bit like cooking.

You have your ready meal equivalent with WordPress and Wix.

You have your cook at home kits with front-end frameworks like bootstrap and foundation.

You have your recipes and ingredients with package managers like npm and JavaScript modules.

Then you have your own home made cooking using vanilla js, CSS and HTML made to your own liking.

Just like being a good chef, being a good web developer is about knowing what ingredients and methods to include, but also what to leave out, to get the best result!

I’m a .NET desktop fullstack dev these days… Never worked web unless for my own small needs/personal projects.
I started using tech one way or the other by the time windows was version 3.1 and been through quite a bit ground-breaking changes in the industry of software development and the internet but if there’s one thing I cannot understand of it all, no matter how much thought I put into it is: How the fuck did we manage to make it so fucking complicated to develop anything these days?
I remember like it was yesterday that you could stand a website with HTML, CSS and JS, three fucking files and you’ve made yourself a single page site. Then came the word “Responsive”, “Responsive” written everywhere. Fair enough, grid system popped up. All of the sudden jQuery was summoned… and everything that happened after this point has been a fucking circus of high-pitched teens talking on conferences about fucking libraries and frameworks to make integration with real time, highly scalable, eco-friendly, serverless, data driven, genome aware, genderless, quantum technologies to interact with bio dynamically generated organisms, namely fucking users.
Every fucking bit of the process of building a mobile/web application seems to be stopped by yet another incredibly dumb attempt to suicide a developer. Can you go from starting an app and publishing an app without jumping through a thousand VERY specific hoops? No, fuck no.
I fucking hate it… It’s a bit hard to get Desktop dev jobs these days but for as long as I work on IT I will continue to stick to that area, until someone for the love of life comes up with a fucking solution to all this decadent circus of bureaucratic technocracy.
Fuck big industry, fuck tech giants, fuck javascript and webassembly, fuck kids putting ASCII art on console applications that I DON’T FUCKING NEED to install dependencies THAT I DON’T FUCKING NEED to extend functionality on frameworks that I DON’T FUCKING NEED… oh wait, I do need all this because YOU FUCKING MADE IT MANDATORY NOW! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOU!!!

Ten hours of making a fully responsive website for a gf's university class in only pure HTML and CSS made me realize how much I take frameworks for granted.

Can we all take a moment to appreciate what a complete mess web technologies are.

We're abusing a markup language made for scientific writing, by styling it with css and in order to make it dynamic somehow, we run a weird ass scripting language on the clientside.

Because nobody really wants to use this burning garbage can, some of us invented web frameworks.

And let's not get started on php...

Grunt, gulp, bower, webpack, rollup, yarn, npm, requirejs, commonjs, browserify, brunch, rollup, parcel, fusebox, babel,
wrappers for bundlers, frameworks on frameworks, then for css, theres scss, sass, less, stylus, compass, and for templates, handlebars, mustache, nunjucks, underscore, ejs, pug, jade, and about five billion other word-salad tools, all with their own CLIs, each in some way building on npm, but with their own non-congruent little syntax, like no one realized they were reinventing the same problems introduced by domain specific languages, most happy to announce "configuration takes a little time, but it's worth it!"

No, it's not. Just stop people. Just stop. You're not doing anyone any favors by creating another lib, all you're doing is tooting your own horn and self promoting. Use what exists and stop creating more shit for new people to learn, to add to the giant clusterfuck that is the 2019 hotmess known as "web development."

You're not special. You're not important. You're lib or tool will be famous for 15 minutes and no one cares what you've made.

If you want to contribute to web development, do us all a favor and contribute to global sanity by kindly deleting your contribution and any plans to contribute new solutions to problems that have already been solved.

When a Coursera course is way better than the one offered by your university…
A university student's rant...

I study Electrical and Computer Engineering and during the first semester of the second year I selected an optional course: Web Programming. It was believed among students that the course would be really easy, and it was. All the student had to do was build a very simple website using HTML, CSS and a few line of JS. A website containing three or four pages all of which had to be validated using a markup validation service.

Yeah, sure, I passed the course just like everyone else who bothered enough to spend an hour or two working on the project. Oh, I almost forgot! We had an one-hour workshop on Dreamweaver!
So, by that point, everybody was a front-end developer, right?!

That happened over three years ago, and because of that course web-development didn’t impress me…

Thankfully, the last few months I’ve became interested in Web Development, and I’ve been reading some articles, spending time on smashing magazine, making some progress on FreeCodeCamp and taking relevant courses on Coursera!
In fact, a few days ago I completed the Coursera course “HTML, CSS and Javascript for Web Developers”.
Oh boy, the things I didn’t know that I didn’t know…

<sarcasm>Did you know there was a term called “responsive design” and that there are frameworks like bootstrap?</sarcasm>
Well, I d i d n ’ t k n o w ! ! ! (even though I had taken the university’s course).

I understand that bootstrap was introduced in 2011 and I took the university course in late 2012, but by that time, bootstrap was quite popular and also there were other frameworks available before bootstrap that could have been included in the course! (even today, there is no reference in responsive design in the university’s course).
In just five weeks the coursera course managed to teach me more, in a more organized and meaningful way than my university’s course in a whole semester!

When I started the coursera course I shared it with a friend of mine. His response: “yeah, sure, but web development is pretty easy… I didn’t spend much time to complete that project three years ago!”

That course three years ago gave birth to misconceptions in students' minds that web development is easy! Yeah, sure, it can be easy to built a simple, non responsive, non interactive website! But that's not how the world works nowadays , right?!

A few months ago, in the early days of August, I attended Flock, the Fedora community conference. During a break I spent some time speaking with a Red Hat employee about student internships. He told me, and I paraphrase: “We know that students don’t have a solid background and that they haven’t learned in the university what we need them to!”

Currently I’m planning to apply for a front-end developer internship position here in Greece.
Yesterday I wrote my CV, added university courses relevant to that position and listed coursera courses under independent coursework… While writing those I made these thoughts…

What if that course 3 years ago was as good as the coursera course… all the things I’d know by now…

Please. Hear me out.

I've been doing frontend for six years already. I've been a junior dev, then in was all up to the CTO. I've worked for very small companies. Also, for the very large ones. Then, for huge enterprises. And also for startups. I've been developing for IE5.5, just for fun. I've done all kinds of stuff — accessibility, responsive design (with or without breakpoints), web components, workers, PWA, I've used frameworks from Backbone to React. My favourite language is CSS, and you probably know it. The bottom line is, you name it — I did it.

And, I want to say that Safari is a very good browser.

It's very fast. Especially on M1 Macs. Yes, it lacks customization and flexibility of Firefox, but general people, not developers, like to use it. Also, Safari is very important — Apple is a huge opposing force to Google when it comes to web standards. When Google pushes their BS like banning ad blockers, Apple never moves an inch. If we lose Safari, you'll notice.

As for the Safari-specific bugs situation, well… To me, Safari serves as a very good indicator: if your website breaks in Safari, chances are you used some hacks that are no good. Safari is a good litmus test I use to find the parts of my code that could've been better.

The only Safari-specific BUG I encountered was a blurry black segment in linear gradients that go from opaque to transparent. So, instead of linear-gradient(#f00, transparent), just do linear-gradient(#f00f, #f000).

This is the ONLY bug I encountered. Every single time my website broke in Safari other than that, was for some ugly hack I used.

You don't have to love it. I don't even use it, my browser of choice is Firefox. But, I'm grateful to Safari, just because it exists. Why? Well, if Safari ceases to exist, Google will just leave both W3C and WhatWG, and declare they'll be doing things their way from now on. Obey or die.

Firefox alone is just not big enough. But, together with Safari, they oppose Google's tyranny in web standards game.

Google will declare the victory and will turn the web into an authoritarian dictatorship. No ad blockers will be allowed. You won't be able to block Google's trackers. Google already owns the internet, well, almost, and this will be their final, devastating victory.

But Safari is the atlas that keeps the web from destruction.

Job Qualifications:
...
Proficient in PHP, MySQL, and PHP Frameworks
Experience in Bootstrap CSS
...

Required Skill:
...
- PHP
- MySQL
- C <----------------- ??? The hell is this!
- C# <---------------- ??? What the?!
- CSS
...

Probably a startup company???

I really fucking hate CSS. I have no idea how to use it and all my websites look like complete shit. I’m cool with JavaScript and some of its libraries and frameworks, but css is a bitch.

Remind me to never ever ever try to make my own CSS from scratch, never.

Much love to all the people making css frameworks, we appreciate you <3

My tech stack progression:

Started with PHP without any frameworks, using a homegrown MVC architecture. Used to use `mysql_` functions everywhere. And only jquery + vanilla CSS in the front end.

Then moved to use PDO functions in PHP and Backbone.js + Less CSS in the front-end.

Then moved to Django in the back-end. Did not like Django very much as it is too opinionated and not flexible (although it's damn good for rapid development if you buy into their type of things).

Then moved to Flask + SQLAlchemy and using a home grown architecture. This is a sweet spot for me in terms of back end and stayed in this spot for the longest time.

Moved to Postgres from MySQL as I fell in love with Postgres.

Then learnt React+Redux. Liked it. Made most sense to front-end development this way. Moved front-end stack to React+Redux.

Learning Haskell and been working with Scotty and eyeing Servant for a while now.

Let's see where it goes from here.

PS: this is my personal journey through various tech stacks in various products at various companies I have worked. I'm not talking about moving a product through these many tech stacks. That doesn't make any sense.

So, after weeks of reading spicy rants from all of you, I finally decided to join your community ; even if I'm only a student, I've encountered some solid crap in my internships.

Let's go back in time bois. Two years ago, I started my first intership at a Fortune 500 company (this doesn't exists in France, but whatever, this is nearly the same category). I was supposed to build some file sharing system for the office. Before getting into it, I briefly thought aboyt what technos I could use to build it and make a sweet interface for my co-workers, in 10 weeks, and not a single another day.

Expectations
> Nice team with devs that I could ask things about and learn solid tricks that would even amaze David Copperfield
> Having a nice dev environment

Reality
> Alone on this project
> No fucking dev environment, I had to build everything on Notepad
> No CI
> No SCM
> And, the worst, Ladies and Gentlemans,

I FUCKING HAD TO WORK IN A SINGLE FILE IN A CLOSED ENVIRONMENT.
NO WEBSERVER, NO DEDICATED SPACE.
I HAD TO REQUEST A SPECIFIC ENVIRONMENT IN A CLOSED CUSTOM CMS THAT WAS SERVING FILES, SO THIS FORMAT COULD BE READ ON FOLDER OPENING IN IE9 (FIREFOX FORBIDDEN).
YOU HAD TO MIX HTML, CSS AND JS IN A SINGLE FILE. NO SERVER-SIDE LANGUAGES, ONLY STATIC LINKS, NO FRAMEWORKS (if we can call jQuery, Bootstrap, Semantic UI and all these thinks "Frameworks").

> mfw at the end of the intership

Fuck all these CSS frameworks using Jquery as their dependency. Cross-browser my ass.

I am going full flexbox.

Want a backend in Node? You got it. PhP using the plethora of frameworks available? No problem.

Feeling like a gipsy guitarrist and want to lay it down with Django? Good taste!

In a hurry and need your startup off the ground with React integration in rails? Piece of cake.

Feeling springy and want you some coffee and Java with your app? A la carte.
Wanna pull my leg and force me to do .net? Mm ok if you insist.

You sure you want Perl with that? Ok no problem.

.....but you sit me and my awesome powers of backend mastery and force me to do css and design all week and you literally destroy my soul......this shit is soul crushing I swear.....

Modern web frontend is giving me a huge headache...

Gazillion frameworks, css preprocessors, transpilers, task runners, webpack, state management, templating, Rxjs, vector graphics,async,promises, es6,es7,babel,uglifying,minifying,beautifying,modules,dependecy injection....

All this for programming apps that happen to run inside browsers on a protocol which was designed to display simple text pages...

This is insanity. It cannot go on like this for long. I pray for webasm and elm to rescue me from this chaos.

I work now as a fullstack dev as my first job but my next job is definitely going to be backend/native stuff for desktop or mobile. It seems those areas are much less crazy.

Made a Website.
What this friendly old Lady wanted: a update to her poem/song website that looked horrible.
What she got: A goddamn masterpiece considering there is NO backend and I got nearly no ressources to work with.
It took forever to put that stuff together since I thought I dont need any frameworks at all. I didnt know PHP at all back then, so I just went all out with everything that pure HTML and CSS could give me.
I even went outside to make nice photos to put into the Background.
....so, he said no PHP or anything? YES! If you wanna add content you change the HTML and upload stuff via Filezilla. I dont really want to see it ever again. But not because it looks bad.

I know, its not really coding since its HTML but I Count this!

CSS Opinion Time!!

With VueJS which css framework do you guys typically use?

Is it normal to deploy a 5.6MB main.css file?

Last week I had to change some shizzle on a website (externally developed).
Well, I was quite shocked...

We usually deploy a single stylesheet under 700 kB.
But also because we never use CSS "frameworks".

I just realized that i can do better in designing websites without bootstrap or other CSS frameworks. Thanks to CSS GRID. FTW

I shit you not. This this a job qualifications qualifications entry level on LinkedIn.

7+ years working as part of a development team and with the following technologies:
Node.js Typescript and Java-based, microservice-driven applications using Spring Boot or similar framework
RESTful API design / microservice architectures
MongoDB or any other NoSQL DB
Message queues e.g. RabbitMQ, Kafka etc.
Modern MV*(MVC, MVVM, etc..) frameworks e.g. React, Angular, Vue etc.
JavaScript and design patterns, CSS and HTML
Modern CSS and view libraries e.g. RxJS, Angular Material, Typescript, JS ES6 etc.
Unit and UI testing using third party tools e.g. Jest, Cucumber, Groovy & Spock, etc.
Bachelor's degree in computer science or related field

I hate UI design. When you code functionality, you either make a thing work or crash, efficient or unefficient, reliable or unreliable, maintainable or unmaintainable; but in UI design there's by no means an established way to make something look pretty and that pisses the crap out of me. You cand spend countless hours working in UI design, using the latest CSS libraries and frameworks, but at the end, any client can easily say it's crap no matter how cool anyone else think it looks. UI design sucks.

!rant

I need to pick a CSS framework for a[n eventually very large] React/React-native project at work. Any suggestions?

While I'm very good with CSS, nobody else is,
and eventually everyone is going to be touching the project, so it needs to be pretty easy to use.

I'm thinking of picking Bulma, or one of the newer, lighter frameworks, but I just don't know. (I'm also getting a lot of pressure to pick Bootstrap3 so we can... copy tables from unrelated sites? I guess? idgi)

Anyway, I have until Wednesday to completely convert over (it'll take me a day), and I still don't know what to pick yet.

Suggestions/advice welcome!

I'm so sick of being forced to use CSS frameworks at work. Every time I see one of those HTML elements with 87 terribly-named CSS classes, I want to scream and break something

What's wrong with Vanilla CSS? Why is it so unpopular to just stick with plain CSS, I feel like I'm infinitely more productive when I can just write out some short CSS than trying to wrangle the dumbass CSS framework to do what I want it to do. Even things like Vuetify make me lose my mind with the stupid shit you have to do to get it to behave how you want it

Also, Material Design is ugly as hell to me

After 3 interviews with test:
"Ok very good, I see you are good with JavaScript, Php, MySQL and some frameworks, it's exactly what we need because we use only on the edge technologies and we do very cool products."
"Thanks, so what about the first app?"
"App? oh no eheh, now you must manage our 12 wordpress sites and edit the CSS!"
"Very good, so while I see you all goin to fuck monkeys I with to you a nice day"

I started to hate programming.
I started with a lot of enthusiasm 11 years ago up to become in 2 years a full stack dev, a sysadmin and had also my fair share of technical assistance on every device plus hardware experience mounting hardware like cctvs, routers, extenders, industrial printers and so on. At the time you actually had the tools to solve problems and had to crack your head and pull hairs to solve stuff and people actually was developing solution and frameworks that solved stuff.

Today I can't stand anything.

Every midschooler feels entitled to release a framework that is announed as the next cure for cancer. Web dev once was thin and simplistic, now simplicity is considered a bug and not a feature.
I'm working on an angular project for the nth time and the whole environment is a clusterfuck of problems held togheter with kids glue.
Someone did a tool/framework for everything but most of it is barely well tested or mature.

Just to start this project we had to know, beside html/css/js techs like Angular, Kafka, Kubernetes, Docker, git, Lit, npm/node, mysql/sql server, webpack/grunt and the hell that it brings, C#/Asp.NET/MVC/WebAPI, and so on, the list is long.

DAMN. Making a simple page which shows a tabbed view with some grids requires you to know a whole damn stack of technologies that need to cooperate togheter.
It's 10x more complex and I actually find it much less productive than ever.

But what bugs me most, is that 90% of that stuff is bug ridden, has some niche use case or hidden pitfall and stuff because with this whole crap of "hey we put on github you open a ticket" they just release spaghetti code and wait for people to do the debug for them.

Angular puts out a version every 2 days and create destructive updates.

I am so tired that I spend most of my 8hrs binging youtube vids in despair to procrastinate work.
I liked to do this once....

Guess who implemented a whole new feature in 3.5 lines of code and a simple CSS class.
This awesome guy.
Take that, frameworks.

Right, that's fucking it. Enough. I'm all for learning new technologies, frameworks, and development protocols, but my time on this earth is limited and at the end of the day if I'm having to spend DAYS AND FUCKING DAYS just scouring through obscure forum posts because the documentation is shit and just hitting ONE FUCKING PROBLEM AFTER ANOTHER then there comes a point at which the time investment simply isn't worth it. I HATE throwing in the towel because some FUCKING CUNT code problem has got the better of me, but fucking sense must prevail here.

Laravel fucking Mix. Do any any of you use this shit on Windows? Because I take my fucking hat off to you. I'm done with it.

Oh, so your server uses 'public_html' instead of 'public' does it? Well, of course you can just set

mix.setPublicPath('public_html'); then can't you?

No, you can't. Why? Because fuck you, that's why. Not only do you have to hard-code your fucking public directory into each specified path, additionally you have to set

mix.setPublicPath('./');

Why? Because fuck you, that's why. It took me the best part of two days to discover that little nugget of information, buried at the bottom of some obscure corner of the internet in a random github issue thread. Fuck off.

Onto next problem. Another 5 hours invested to extract some patchy solution that I'm not at all happy with.

Rinse, repeat.

Make it work with BrowserSync by wrapping your assets like so:

<link rel="stylesheet" href="{{ mix('/build/css/main.css') }}">

Oh oh oh but "The Mix manifest does not exist"... despite a fresh install of Laravel 5.6 and all relevant node modules installed... follow some other random Github thread with a back and forth of time-consuming suggestions for avenues of experimentation, with no clear solution.

Er no, fuck off. I'm going back to Grunt and maybe I'll try Webpack/Mix in another year or two when there's actually some clear answers, but as it stands this a wild goose chase into a fucking black-hole and I've got better things to do with my precious time. Go die.

I've worked on dozens of projects now and I have tried using several CSS frameworks. Every time I experienced using a framework much more of a hustle than using custom CSS for the design. If your design gets a little bit more complex or unusual you will spent hours on fixes.

For me the times of frameworks in CSS have passed.

Tough I kinda like Vuetify, but then I haven't used it on big projects yet.

What To Learn?

I'm a beginner in web development and have knowledge about html, css, JavaScript, jQuery, Sass, NodeJS, Express, MongoDB, Passport. You can consider me to be a beginner full stack developer, but I'm confused about what to learn further. There are so many front end frameworks that one can spend his entire life learning them. React, Vue, Angular, Backbone, etc. But I always want to learn backend properly, then there's Rails, PHP, SQL, Python. Can anyone atleast tell me what to learn and why exactly? This thing's making me mad and anxious.

From a job posting I recently viewed:

"About you: We don't care about years of experience or knowledge of particular technologies, if you have a computer science degree; or a degree at all for that matter."

further down in the same posting...:

"Qualifications:
-MS/BS in Computer Science or related background
-2-3 years of front-end development experience with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript and related JavaScript frameworks such as Backbone, React, or similar technologies"

........

That one fucking time my text editor so damn high, that it choose to encode my file utf-8 BOM.
I was using Notepad++ because I thought it would just provide a good syntax highlighting, without stabbing me in the back

Seemingly nothing wrong with the code, but it took me, a friend and two teacher almost half an hour to figure out why the css simply wasn't work, even though it was clearly used and worker as intended when embeded in the file.

This was some years ago, so please don't judge me for my editor of choice at that time

Other than that, i simply suck at css and gladly use css frameworks 😅

I love web development and web design. You can make something custom that looks great in a short period of time. Use the many frameworks to your advantage.

Also, for the people hating css, i get it. It's har sometimes but it's not that bad. Flexbox makes your life waaay easier.

Big shoutout to @king; just took a look at your website and frameworks; i like. I'll be using that CSS framework of yours in the near future

And i saw a little error on its page. You have a paragraph pertaining to the nav under the cards example. Just letting ya know

I agree with many people on here that Front-End web development/design isn't what it used to be.

Things used to be simple: a static page. Then we decoupled design from description and we introduced CSS; nice, clean separation, more manageable - everything looks nice up to this point.

Introduce dynamic pages, introduce JavaScript. We can now change the DOM and we can make interactive, neat little webpages; cool, the web is still fun.

Years later, we start throwing backend concepts into the web and bloating it with logic because we want so much for the web to be portable and emulate the backend. This is where it starts to get ugly: come ASP, come single pages, partial pages, templates,.. The front-end now talks to a backend, okay. We start decoupling things and we let the logic be handled by the backend - fair enough.

Even later, we start decoupling the edge processes (website setup, file management, etc.) and then we introduce ugly JavaScript tools to do it. Then we introduce convoluted frameworks (Angular,..). Sometimes we find ourselves debugging the tools themselves (grunt, gulp, mapping tools,..) rather than focusing on the development itself (as per ITIL guidelines; focus on value), no matter how promising today's frameworks claim to be ("You get to focus on your business code"; yeah right, in practice it has turned out differently for me. More like "I get to focus on wasting copious amounts of time trying to figure out your tangled web").

Everything has now turned into an unfriendly, tangled web (no pun intended).

I miss the old days when creating things for the Web used to be fun, exciting and simple and it would invigorate passion, not hate.

<my cents="2"></my>

Got contacted for a job "interview" by a company because they were looking for "people with my skill set". All my profiles say I am a fullstack web dev with experience in frontend js frameworks and js and php backend frameworks.

Come in to find the "interview" is an exam. Ok, fine. My brain could do with some exercise.

After the basic IQ type questions, I get the web dev exam.

It is 95% of the questions are about CSS and HTML basics.

WHAT. THE. ACTUAL. FUCK.

Age 8 - Gets first computer and struggles with dial up Internet and my parents yelling at that they ended to use the phone

Ages 12 to 18 - Gets first laptop, starts messing around and interested in websites, gets involved with SMF, and open source message board system written in Php, and starts helping people out, eventually getting paid work for setting up websites etc.. which lead onto learning html/CSS and picking up bits and pieces of Php (and also Photoshop/Illustrator etc..)

Age 18 - Goes to college to study Multimedia, refreshes knowledge of HTML/CSS, learns a bit of Actionscript and some PHP

Age 20 - finishes Multimedia degree, ends up working as an IT consultant for a small business, which leads me to pick up a bit of bash scripting, small hit more PHP. Leaves this after 3months and decides to do a small Software Dev course. Get my first taste of Java and Visual Basic there

21 - Enter into a Software Dev degree. Dive deep into Java and a small bit of Javascript.

23 - After 2nd year of college get taken on an internship with a large multinational where I learn and get hands on experience with Angular, JS, Coffeescript and C#

Present Day - currently coming up to the end of my degree and can switch between Java, C#, Python, Coffeescript/Javascript (front-end or Node) , C and Golang, C and Python introductions from college modules which I kept playing with in my spare time, Golang I just heard of and decided to write a few things in it because why not, I've picked up various frameworks (spring, echo, express etc.) at some point. I basically learn by doing, if something interests me and I enjoy it, I seem to pick it up quickly by diving in and trying to use it.

I started a new project and only use PHP, HTML, CSS and vanilla JS. No Frameworks. No React. No Vue.

The browser loads the page instantly, there is virtually no loading time and it just works.

I don't consider myself a guru in JavaScript (hell I studied theoretical chemistry), but I do hate much of the rationalization behind building a Jenga stack of libraries, frameworks, dependencies... for building everything web related.

Many of the problems I see people solving with these giant stacks could be easily solved understanding how websites work (html, css, js and how interact with each other) with no dependencies giving smaller (for end users at least) and more maintainable code (in the sense it would not require updating dependencies that may be discontinued...)

I do imagine situations where these are ideal... Since there are not absolutes and developing is very context sensitive, but man if I have js article fatigue for ridiculous scenarios.

When I first discovered that frameworks for web apps existed. No longer will writing websites in raw html, css, js, be an eternal labor

Drupal makes me want to go back to the moment that life first crawled out of the ocean, and shoot that first land-dwelling organism in the head – just to make sure that the animal kingdom never evolves to the point where a crime as ghastly as Drupal can occur.

Drupal somehow manages to be both unforgivingly, bureaucratically rigid, and an anarchic, spaghetti-coded mess – at the same time. Other frameworks are toolboxes. Drupal is a series of windows at the IRS or MVA – and it *will* take you days to figure out which series of forms you have to submit, with which boxes checked, in order to accomplish your goal.

The documentation is complete and utter trash.

It models content in a way that makes all sorts of assumptions about your use case. And those assumptions don't have anything to do with *how websites are actually designed and built*. In 20 years of building websites, I've never *once* wanted to use anything resembling the bizarre data model that Drupal *forces* you to use. Nor have I ever thought "gee, I wish my platform forced me to stop writing code every 20 seconds, so I can use an atrociously designed point-and-click interface".

I ask the community how to accomplish [insert extremely fucking basic task here], and they say: "well, you just install these 17 modules, glue them together with a bunch of configuration that couples your database to your code, and then shrug at the hideously broken HTML/CSS that comes out, because we give exactly zero shits about UX! isn't it great how Drupal makes things so easy?" Like, no – literally *every other framework on the planet* allows you to accomplish the same thing with just a few lines of code.

Most of the community seems to have little or no experience with other frameworks – so they seem solipsistically unaware that these are even problems. If your platform has been stabbing you in the arm for as long as you've been building websites, then you're just gonna assume that being stabbed in the arm is part of developing websites, you know? They seem oblivious to the fact that things are *so much easier* when your platform just lets you build whatever abstractions you need, instead of forcing its own weird-ass, undocumented assumptions on you.

Uruururrrrrrrggghgh. I can't understand how anyone defends this piece of garbage. If you're a Drupal developer reading this – please, for the love of God, try learning another framework. Once you've spent a couple of weeks learning saner ways of doing things, you'll never look back. I cannot comprehend how Drupal is still a thing.

CSS preprocessors sucks.
CSS frameworks sucks.
Simple truth.

Hello everyone.
So, i am thinking about where to get lists of programming languages, frameworks and softwares that is fundamental. For example:
If i would like to develop a web site. I would use html, css, js & php. Maybe a site or frameworks for reference and 'roadmap'. I want to become a good programmer.

!!!rant

Most exited I've been about some code? Probably for some random "build a twitter clone with Rails" tutorial I found online.

I've been working on my CS degree for a while (theoretical CS) but I really wanted to mess with something a bit more practical. I had almost none web dev experience, since I've been programming mostly OS-related stuff till then (C). I started looking around, trying to find a stack that's easy to learn since my time was limited- I still had to finish with my degree.

I played around with many languages and frameworks for a week or two. Decided to go with Ruby/Rails and built a small twitter clone blindly following a tutorial I found online and WAS I FUCKING EXITED for my small but handmade twitter clone had come to life. Coming from a C background, Ruby was weird and felt like a toy language but I fell in love.

My excitement didn't fade. I bought some books, studied hard for about a month, learned Ruby, Rails, JavaScript, SQL (w/ pg) and some HTML/CSS. Only playing with todo apps wasn't fun. I had a project idea I believed might be somewhat successful so I started working on it.

The next few months were spent studying and working on my project. It was hard. I had no experience on any web dev technology so I had learn so many new things all at once. Picked up React, ditched it and rewrote the front end with Vue. Read about TDD, worked with PostgreSQL, Redis and a dozen third party APIs, bought a vps and deployed everything from scratch. Played it with node and some machine learning with python.

Long story short, one year and about 30 books later, my project is up and running, has about 4k active monthly users, is making a profit and is steadily growing. If everything goes well, next week I'll close a deal with a pretty big client and I CANT BE FKING HAPPIER AND MORE EXCITED :D Towards the end of the month I'll also be interviewed for a web dev position.

That stupid twitter clone tutorial made me excited enough to start messing with web technologies. Thank you stupid twitter clone tutorial, a part of my heart will be yours forever.

It's been a while DevRant!

Straight back into it with a rant that no doubt many of us have experienced.

I've been in my current job for a year and a half & accepted the role on lower pay than I normally would as it's in my home town, and jobs in development are scarce.

My background is in Full Stack Development & have a wealth of AWS experience, secure SaaS stacks etc.

My current role is a PHP Systems Developer, a step down from a senior role I was in, but a much bigger company, closer to home, with seemingly a lot more career progression.

My job role/descriptions states the following as desired:

PHP, T-SQL, MySQL, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Jquery, XML

I am also well versed in various JS frameworks, PHP Frameworks, JAVA, C# as well as other things such as:

Xamarin, Unity3D, Vue, React, Ionic, S3, Cognito, ECS, EBS, EC2, RDS, DynamoDB etc etc.

A couple of months in, I took on all of the external web sites/apps, which historically sit with our Marketing department.

This was all over the place, and I brought it into some sort of control. The previous marketing developer hadn't left and AWS access key, so our GitLabs instance was buggered... that's one example of many many many that I had to work out and piece together, above and beyond my job role.

Done with a smile.

Did a handover to the new Marketing Dev, who still avoid certain work, meaning it gets put onto me. I have had a many a conversation with my line manager about how this is above and beyond what I was hired for and he agrees.

For the last 9 months, I have been working on a JAVA application with ML on the back end, completely separate from what the colleagues in my team do daily (tickets, reports, BI, MI etc.) and in a multi-threaded languages doing much more complicated work.

This is a prototype, been in development for 2 years before I go my hands on it. I needed to redo the entire UI, as well as add in soo many new features it was untrue (in 2 years there was no proper requirements gathering).

I was tasked initially with optimising the original code which utilised a single model & controller :o then after the first discussion with the product owner, it was clear they wanted a lot more features adding in, and that no requirement gathering had every been done effectively.

Throughout the last 9 month, arbitrary deadlines have been set, and I have pulled out all the stops, often doing work in my own time without compensation to meet deadlines set by our director (who is under the C-Suite, CEO, CTO etc.)

During this time, it became apparent that they want to take this product to market, and make it as a SaaS solution, so, given my experience, I was excited for this, and have developed quite a robust but high level view of the infrastructure we need, the Lambda / serverless functions/services we would want to set up, how we would use an API gateway and Cognito with custom claims etc etc etc.

Tomorrow, I go to London to speak with a major cloud company (one of the big ones) to discuss potential approaches & ways to stream the data we require etc.

I love this type of work, however, it is 100% so far above my current job role, and the current level (junior/mid level PHP dev at best) of pay we are given is no where near suitable for what I am doing, and have been doing for all this time, proven, consistent work.

Every conversation I have had with my line manager he tells me how I'm his best employee and how he doesn't want to lose me, and how I am worth the pay rise, (carrot dangling maybe?).

Generally I do believe him, as I too have lived in the culture of this company and there is ALOT of technical debt. Especially so with our Director who has no technical background at all.

Appraisal/review time comes around, I put in a request for a pay rise, along with market rates, lots of details, rates sources from multiple places.

As well that, I also had a job offer, and I rejected it despite it being on a lot more money for the same role as my job description (I rejected due to certain things that didn't sit well with me during the interview).

I used this in my review, and stated I had already rejected it as this is where I want to be, but wanted to use this offer as part of my research for market rates for the role I am employed to do, not the one I am doing.

My pay rise, which was only a small one really (5k, we bring in millions) to bring me in line with what is more suitable for my skills in the job I was employed to do alone.

This was rejected due to a period of sickness, despite, having made up ALL that time without compensation as mentioned.

I'm now unsure what to do, as this was rejected by my director, after my line manager agreed it, before it got to the COO etc.

Even though he sits behind me, sees all the work I put in, creates the arbitrary deadlines that I do work without compensation for, because I was sick, I'm not allowed a pay rise (doctors notes etc supplied).

What would you do in this situation?

I inherited a nextjs project from an unknown guy and am fangirling the codebase

But the deeper I familiarise myself with it, the more the cracks begin to appear:

1) The dude Is incapable of grasping the basics of DRY concept. He actually setup a ton of stuff I may have done poorly if I'd started working straight out of the docs, so I feel like I owe him a shower of praise. I guess being new to nextjs makes it look more impressive than it actually is. He was paid off, yet getting the credit seems unearned to me. I'm just afraid reaching out to him might turn around to bite me in the ass
***

I had the above in my drafts, contemplating sending him a token to show some appreciation for unknowingly showing me the ropes. I was going to find him on LinkedIn using his commit names. But after doing everything I've done, undergoing the anxiety and severe pressure I faced at the hands of the project owners, I'm not sharing a farthing with anybody

Yes, I may not have known about zustand and persist middleware. Yes, he did all the ui. Yes, he created the base components and fancy wrappers around form and button html elements. For those, I'm grateful

But the amount of refactoring I had to do to, for an opportunity to implement my own target features, I'd say I can lay as much claim to the project as he does.

Side note #1: I have some newfound respect for front end devs. We used to discriminate against them for doing just css but that was only relevant in the jquery days. Now, they have to use cryptic css frameworks (sass, less, tailwind), they have to learn esoteric syntax of some js framework and write controllers/components as the case may be. They have to (the worst part), bind this data to an API, which would never make sense to me coming from a php ssr-natural world

Back rewarding the guy, some of the challenges I came back from were:

1) Next server outages: I still don't know the workaround this. The app terminates, browser giving an error about using up memory. I have to wait for about 10 minutes before I can access the app again

2) spring Webflux authentication not hydrating: I was unexpectedly asked to work on the back end too, where I got tortured with this horrifying condition. The most poorly documented framework for the Web has no upto date guide on how to implement jwt security measures. I opened a question on stackoverflow. A day later, both my question and the helpful answer got downvoted

3) Zustand not retrieving any data from localstorage once page reloads, until I miraculously stumbled on a hack: there's a config callback for reading state after rehydration or thereabout. So I interact with the state there. That's the only way content clearly in localstorage can get transmuted into dynamic format accessible by the code

4) Mongo database suddenly disconnecting: for no apparent reason, this bailed. Accessible on compass. This was even when I realised it was responsible for front end requests not going through. Eventually created a new database and requests surprisingly began connecting again. Thankfully, my laravel background taught me about seeders so I had them on standby from the onset. Wasn't difficult to just port to a fresh database after confirming the first one was inaccessible to the app

After this painful odyssey and the time constraints, threats of moving forward with someone else, I deserve every dime they deem me worthy of and more

Salesforce lightning web components have such bullshit limitations that they claim is because of security but it's just because it's overengineered garbage.

Want to use web components? Nope.

Want to pass in a value to a function in a click listener expression? Nope.

Want to use scss? Nope, compile it to css yourself.

Want to use the fucking document object? Guess what it's overridden except for very specific third party frameworks.

Who in the fuck thought it was a good idea to override the document object? Your app isn't more secure, literally the entire internet uses the document object and it still becomes available in runtime anyway so what the fuck??

LWC is the biggest garbage I've ever seen, you know a framework's a big red flag when there are developers solely for the framework.

There is a new security release coming out that apparently removes some of these nuances (understatement) so there might be some light at the end of the tunnel.

Note: I posted this as a comment, but figured it could be a rant on its own.

I absolutely hate what frameworks like Bootstrap did for the web. True, 10 or 20 years ago quick personal / pet project sites looked plain and boring, and only sites with dedicated developers had a nice layout. But what did Bootstrap bring? Those "minimal effort" sites still look boring as fuck, except now they have Bootstrap look & feel. What's even worse is that thanks to Bootstrap, every fucking UI kit is just Bootstrap with more bloat. To further prove my point, if you google "material CSS" you'll find a ton of projects, and except for the official Google projects, they all look & feel like a mutilated incest child of Bootstrap and MD because instead of making their own implementations, everyone just started with Bootstrap. And the same goes for all sorts of templates which look & feel nothing like Bootstrap, but thanks to its shitty influence devs still start with Bootstrap instead of writing clean CSS which does what a template needs without extra bloat.

Am I the only one who finds single page website designs too boring and generic? Frameworks, on one side, increase our overall productivity but on the other side kill all our creativity.

!rant

So I'm looking for advice.
I'm 16 and I'd like to eventually work at some sort of tech startup, probably doing something like web development as that's what I've done the most of. I have been teaching myself and practicing programming for years and have experience with HTML, CSS, JS, NodeJS, Socket.io etc. but don't necessarily have a lot of experience with some necessary frameworks such as ReactJS or AngularJS, so I couldn't really apply for any of the job listings I've seen so far. I currently work in retail so it's possible that I could work somewhere such as an Apple Store.

What's the best next step? Is a university course the right option or should I be trying to find something such as work experience?

If you got to the end, thanks for reading my long winded and badly written post. Looking forward to hearing the advice of some fellow devs.

Frontend double standards: havind two CSS frameworks on THE SAME FREAKING PROJECT, with arbitrary usage!!!!11one

When another "front-end developer" appends the entire bootstrap CSS file to your templates because it needs to align two elements. To templates that never included any css framework cuz i hate them... Then he asked me for help because it did not work... I fixed an invalid CSS file reference.

FUCK HIS LIFE

If you just want to answer my question, skip to the bottom. For those who cares, some backstory:

So...I seemed to have finally caught a break; a friend of my dad owns an IT company and also makes websites...used to. It was becoming too much for him alone so he decided to discontinue, but that's where i come in. We talked a few days ago and it sounds like I'm finally going to have a decent dev related job--even if it's only mainly websites, at least I can work from anywhere once the ball starts rolling since I'll just get direct deposits. Meaning I'd be able to visit my gf in Florida and sustain myself over there while I look to build my own client base or even get a job offer, who knows?

For you guys and gals reading this, what's your favorite/preferred static site generators and css frameworks? I know that I'll be doing mostly static sites first, and i want to deliver quality work as quick as possible. I'm cool with learning a new language once it's not too obscure; i mainly do JS and I know a bit of Python, PHP, and just the basics of Go and Ruby

!rant but question to you experts:

Hey, guys. I'm currently trying to up my game in terms of web development. I already know js, html, php and css quite well (enough to become a tutor at my university) but I'm not shure which frameworks (serverside and clientside) are worth considering. Until now I wrote everything from scratch, which is not very sustainable (waaaay to much code to maintain)
Could you please tell me your softwarestacks, what library to use, which frameworks to learn (Vue/React/Angular/...)? Every opinion is very appreciated and won't go unheard. Thanks in advance.

btw: you guys are the nicest people I ever met online. Thank you for being so awesome.

after exploring a lot of ui frameworks and architectures, i am trying to go back to android dev but again with the curiosity for the one single question that i had at the start of my career 5 years back : why is it's ui so complex?

can anyone help me understand it?

like comparing with the most basic ui framework : html/css/js, why android is so different? we got activities, fragments and views. the worst thing in android is lifecycles, that each of these ui components have.

The view lifecycle is simple to get over with : whatever is the lifecycle of its parent, is the lifecycle of view.

a view's parent is another view, whose parent is another view, whose parent is... and so on until we reach the root view which is stored by either a fragment or activity

therefore a view's lifecycle = lifecycle of activity or fragment

till here its very clear. the fuckup is simply in the next part:
WTAF is activity ?WTAF is fragment? why are their various functions called in the sequence they are called? oncreate, on start, onstartview, ondestroy... why?
activity is still somewhat okay, but fragment is completey weird af : it can be a part of activity: basically it can cover your complete screen and behave as an activity itself (so you don't get to say that activity === screen and fragment === view) AND IT HAS ITS OWN FUCKING LIFECYCLES! So does that mean fragment's fucntions cna also be called by OS?

what's more mind fucking, is the fact that android activity can destroy/pause or recreate fragments on its own, by some "views" like viewpager , or even hold multiple fragments as "alive" at the same time, using something called a "backstack" ??!??!

and each of these fragments in the stack can be called by system at any time? like wtf???

all these stuff is super confusing and i haven't even scratched the surface. the newer , more complicated stuff like viewmodel, livedata and again "lifecycles" has a complete seperate behavior and functionality of their own. plus the various "reality-check" scenarios like: when a user is streaming a video in picture-in-picture mode while keeping your app in split screen with maps in the second split, when a call comes and the video keeps running, and user rotates the device, let me know the clusterfuck situation for the 3rd fragment in your 5 icon navigation view currently at the payment page with 2 fragments and 1 activity in backstack!!!

god bless thy soul for this shitty framework isn't going anywhere , rather its super strong and getting more clusterfucked with new beautiful shit everyday.

(if someone can ignore my gentle language, i would really like to know/get redirected to some resources where i can learn more on this)

Trying to get some cool project for fun using CSS framework. Don't want to use bootstrap. What's fancy yet powerful for a basic HTML/CSS site maybe with some jQuery/JS?

For the past week I've been rewriting an application with just pure php, html, js and css (with a sprinkle of bootstrap), and I gotta say that in this new modern world of frameworks & CMSs, it feels great building a "problem solving" application with nothing but my bare hands!

What should I do to practice being a "good coder" vs a "code Googler" who slaps other people's code into the site just because "it's enough to get the damn thing working"?

I feel really overwhelmed with all that Ive learned thus far. At this point I feel width with know depth when it comes to my knowledge of websites.

I've been messing around with html/css/js for a while and played with plenty of other languages,pre-processors, frameworks, etc. I never went to school for programming and have done work for small businesses independently for some time. Most of what I know comes from codecademy treehouse and similar sites. I can refer to Google on a lot of things but I feel like there are habits that I should be implementing so I don't have to re-do things later. I love the book apart series but I still feel like it's missing the foundational knowledge that I'm looking for.

After all of the time I've spent going through courses I feel like my experiences have given me solutions to build a few things and now I'm just jamming those solutions onto whatever I can until something I like comes on to the browser.

It's really easy to sit down and bang my head against the keyboard until something comes out that looks the way I want it to. However, I know there is way more going on that could help me make better decisions. I just feel like I'm missing something. Maybe it's experience, or maybe it's just the lack of commroddery from working alone and not being able to approach problems with a team.

I hate pulling up my css file and feeling like it's rubbish, and feeling like I don't completely understand things like flex, or display, or position. I've been pushing at this for a while but I don't think I've found a resource that has really made me feel like I'm anywhere close to being a competent coder.

There are tons of watch and learn and do type classes that show you how to make stuff, but I guess what I want to know now is why we make it that way.

At some point do you just sit down and read the MSN start to finish?

I wonder sometimes if my brain has been reprogrammed because I grew up in Google world and don't actually have to solve anything for myself. I read about a guy who locked himself away for hours with books on code and he just sat there and wrote his code on paper until he was confident that he was getting it right.

After CSS Grid and Flexbox, I don't see the need for frameworks (except for utilities like margin and padding).

Change my mind 🙂

only difference between css frameworks are, name, classname, color scheme, font size :/

you call your self master of CSS and the only thing you are good at is using frameworks always for animation and every little task. you can't even do simple animation with css. FUCKING BASTARD

css frameworks are a sign your ui/ux team is an empty bag of chips.

vuetify examples look like toys in their docs and work that way in prod. if you put any two vuetify components together on a page you basically dont have a website anymore. mx px are indicators that your styling abstraction is so bad that adding 8 resize shims to every single node on the dom is the correct solution to your visual spacing dilemma.

css offers so many powerful tools out of the box now, and it takes like a week to actually learn them. instead, we cloak all the functionality and expressiveness of modern css in black-box m a t e r i a l d e s i g n and pretend like obtuse blobs are a viable substitute for coherent, accessible, user-friendly ux.

Going into a web animation class hoping to finally learn CSS animations as well as how SVGs work (I never knew)

Ending up finding out that the prof is using frameworks like Animate.CSS. FUCK.

I didn't pay thousands of dollars to learn the frameworks I have been using for the past four years!!!

1) try make it do web requests
2) try make it work as server
if i can do these things with new technology then i can do almost all today software market need. even some css frameworks passes these tests.

It's really sick how beginners start to code in Javascript and CSS, and their complex frameworks, without even understanding atleast the paradigm first. Googling your way up can be fine for smart ones, but as least time optimal this learning method sounds, it's as dangerous and non-productive too.
Also once project gets to a certain level, it's practically impossible to revisit and refactor old codes in front-end languages which kills the maintainability. Views?

A colleague told me today Bootstrap and others CSS frameworks was shit... I answered him if you have no time to deal with CSS hell on a project with people not able to produce good CSS code, you need to use this.

What do you think about that ?

Was trying getting started with javascript(actually web dev) by creating a simple app.
All i saw in tutorials were dozens of *JS and *CSS frameworks. What are the web guys upto?

Random recruiter from LinkedIn sends an “opportunity” in a well stablished German company in Madrid ..

.. has three entries in requirements for jquery, associated with, and I quote “OOP, Object Programming, and other frameworks” ..

Goes on to require knowledge of “css, scss and saas”, along with “Don HTML” ..

And requests “experience with the principles of agile user interface methodologies” ..

And Angular 1 ..

How would you respond to this one!?

I actually did, corrected the mistakes, told what other mistakes were at the differences between libraries and frameworks, .. and that I don’t like Angular and I’m not interested in learning the old one at all ..

Semantic ui is bullshit.

I have been css frameworks
Bootstrap
Foundation
2 more that i forgot.

They are huge and simple to understand.

Now fucking with semantic ui. Bullshit docs. Javascript problems conflicts.

Will try bulma without js.
Or back to bootstrap.

Over the last few weeks, I've learned two things about the head of my division:

1. They "don't care about code quality"
2. They want to try a "low-code" approach for the web frontend of a completely custom piece of what is currently desktop software

This is despite the fact that we have three full time developers with a wide range of both front and back end skills on the payroll, a deep library of existing components for various frontend frameworks, a custom CSS library, and a decent deployment pipeline for frontend code.

But sure, let's try low-code. Let's see how far that gets us.

I really tried to give tailwind a chance. I gave my best to start using it....

I hate it. It sucks. It makes my design process slow as fuck. Fuck of with this shit.

I remember when i was first deciding whether to do web programming or desktop applications, i chose java/C/C++ mainly because I already had experience. Back then when i was researching web stuff it was HTML + CSS + javascript and something called jquery, ok cool seems like I can pick it up in the future. Fastforward to 2018 and i was looking to get into it, BUT holy fucking shit what a confusing minefield and cesspool of javascript horror and frameworks and bloat, wtf happened??

Is it good time to switch to CSS Grid Layout frameworks such as Blueprint CSS? How is good/bad as compared to Flexbox?

we were taught separation of concern when getting into webdev, don't write html inside your js codebase, don't write js inside html code base, don't write css inside your js codebase. People who taught us this, are violating this same principles by introducing stupid frameworks.

I have to confess, the first time I saw a framework like bootstrap I hated it because I didn't understood most of the HTML with a lot of tags with classes everywhere. It took me like 3 weeks to learn how to use it right and I made 3 websites from 0 in the process.
One day I read about a framework that uses Material Design rules (which I apply in my electronic projects with rgb screens). Since that moment I started to use it. I love how easy it´s to do a complex thing with a few lines.
For those who are starting with web design, give it a try to these frameworks. They will make your life easier. I was the kind of guy that writes every single line of html, css and javascript by hand.

What exactly is a full-stack developer/engineer? I'm confused.

So, I worked as a freelance webdev for a US company where I redesigned a pretty complicated website from scratch with PHP, mysql, JavaScript, CSS, HTML5. I only mention those because it will important later.
Basically, it's a lame mvc framework I wrote which heavily relied on AJAX and bootstrap modals.
I built from mysql <=> PHP -> UI
I Also built an android app that communicates with the php api

I worked for 4.6 years and they were kind enough to give me the designation "Full Stack Engineer" so I could put that on my resume. Alright, cool.

Then I go to this interview and one interviewer took offense. He told me that, there are 3 tiers of web dev; Database, Backend shit and UI. And I'm not a full-stack engineer. He then asked me if I worked with frameworks like laravel, symphony etc. [I did but not in this project]. I didn't know what to say. The other interviewer tried to help me, "Do you know what it means? Or have you ever worked with React.js or Angular?".

Didn't get the job and I'm so embarrassed and just feel like I'm a fraud. How could I not know what full-stack is? And why did I put it in my resume? Fuck!

Anyway can anyone tell me what "full- stack *" is?

>inb4
>incoherent
>bad engrish
Just fuck my shit up fam

In most businesses, self-proclaimed full-stack teams are usually more back-end leaning as historically the need to use JS more extensively has imposed itself on back-end-only teams (that used to handle some basic HTML/CSS/JS/bootstrap on the side). This is something I witnessed over the years in 4 projects.

Back-end developers looking for a good JS framework will inevitably land on the triad of Vue, React and Angular, elegant solutions for SPA's. These frameworks are way more permissive than traditional back-end MVC frameworks (Dotnet core, Symfony, Spring boot), meaning it is easy to get something that looks like it's working even when it is not "right" (=idiomatic, unit-testable, maintainable).

They then use components as if they were simple HTML elements injecting the initial state via attributes (props), skip event handling and immediately add state store libraries (Vuex, Redux). They aren't aware that updating a single prop in an object with 1000 keys passed as prop will be nefarious for rendering performance. They also read something about SSR and immediately add Next.js or Nuxt.js, a custom Node express.js proxy and npm install a ton of "ecosystem" modules like webpack loaders that will become abandonware in a year.

After 6 months you get: 3 basic forms with a few fields, regressions, 2MB of JS, missing basic a11y, unmaintainable translation files & business logic scattered across components, an "outdated" stack that logs 20 deprecation notices on npm install, a component library that is hard to unit-test, validate and update, completely vendor-& version locked in and hundreds of thousands of wasted dollars.

I empathize with the back-end devs: JS frameworks should not brand themselves as "simple" or "one-size-fits-all" solutions. They should not treat their audience as if it were fully aware and able to use concepts of composition, immutability, and custom "hooks" paired with the quirks of JS, and especially WHEN they are a good fit.

CSS.... vertical centering back around 2000 before flexbox and frameworks

HTML- before we head css frameworks looked bootstrap. I am done make things pretty ..I make them functional

I’m too dumb to learn frontend frameworks.
I’m a backend developer, not the greatest but I get the work done. I can understand different programming languages even if I don’t write in them, you just understand basic principles and know what’s going on.
I can do some work in HTML, CSS and some JS.
But what the hell is with those popular frontend frameworks. I thought I pretty much understand how it works, so started doing some crap on my own, some pretty responsive navbar with dropdowns to start. Nevermind a million of npm packages to just start working and some weird errors in website source (“JavaScript is not enabled”, I spent few hours trying to fix it, but it’s just there, everything is working fine even with this message there). I have pretty navbar, nice, time to add dropdown.
Nope, not working. Maybe classic css solution?
Nope.
Ok, time to Google. What do I find? A million of npm dependencies that provide dropdowns, for some you need to pay, wtf.
But I want to write one on my own.
Found few tutorials that wasn’t even remotely helpful, it’s like with the online recipes, “when I was growing up on the farm…” and then something that it’s not working.
Finally found some nice looking tutorial, was following that and then.. it ended. It was maybe half of the solution, dude forgot about some components and just left.
I quit, I’m going back to writing jsp, my brain is too smooth for frontend frameworks

stateofjs survey reminds me of all that's wrong with JavaScript: too many frameworks each of which has to reinvent the wheel and depend on too many node_modules child dependencies, most don't support TypeScript properly (ever tried to convert a node-express-mongoose tutorial to TS?), there is still no proper type support in JS core language, and browser features get added in form of overly complex APIs instead of handy DOM methods.

Instead the community gets excited about micro-improvements like optional chaining which has been possible in other languages for decades.

At least there is something like TypeScript, but I don't like its syntax either, it's overly verbose and adds too much "Java feeling" to JavaScript in my opinion.

Also there is too much JS in web development, as CSS and HTML seem to have missed adding enough native functionality that works reliable cross browser to build websites in a descriptive way without misunderstanding web dev for application engineering.

After all, I'd rather have frontend PHP than more JavaScript everywhere.

Anyway, at least the survey has the option to choose how satisfied or unsatisfied people are about certain aspects of JS. But I already suspect that most respondents will seem to be very happy and eager to learn the latest hype train frameworks or stick to their beloved React in the future.

Not following the front end "standards" of the company I work for ( Sass variables, Methods, CSS frameworks, mixins, etc.) even though we had a meeting talking about following standards to improve the workflow a day before.

Coz a question like this in SO will get me banned......
I know HTML, CSS, JS, React in frontend.
I know Java as backend including database connectivity and all.
Should i learn a more demanding backend language lile PHP?
Or should I further learn frontend technologies like Angular, D3.js, and other frameworks?

Vent-rant. Fuck Wordpress and PHP and overly limiting css frameworks in their greasy unstable fucking assholes. I find embedded and / or game-dev C++ waaaaay more fun and pleasant, and logical than this fucking pile of cuntfuckery. I think I'm gonna switch my job, hopefully there's some C/C++ companies in my area.

In the beginning there was Vanilla that generate HTML which felt in love with CSS .....it passes a long time thus this pure essences creates a lot of frameworks and libraries thus the time has passed and Angular make love with React saying each other "I LoVue" and thus generate Vue.... a Vue-tiful creature 😄

Have been working all my life so far mainly with css only, tried scss again yesterday and its just amazing 😍

Now looking forward to finding what I should pick from all the frameworks that are angular, vuejs, react etc.

Well, I tried, but I can't do css. Let's try a css framework.

!Rant (almost)

What has been the best language you've worked with for creating UI? I started with html / css / js and implementing a mock-up is almost second nature at this point with those frameworks. I'm currently in a java class at university and it's taking me 30 minutes to get something to look a certain way that would take me 5 with the web stack.

Thoughts?

So I started learning html, css and javascript this year... After getting stuck in understanding a few concepts I started learning a little of sql and Java...
Now after a few begginer tutorials I have no idea where to go or what to dedicate my studies...
Most companies around my city use Java, but I'm already 29 years old and I feel like this will be a problem... Should I focus on learning frameworks and try big companies internships, or go for web development and start working on my own?

Modern Web Developer
(To the tune of "I Am the Very Model of a Modern Major-General" from Gilbert and Sullivan's "The Pirates of Penzance")

I am the very model of a modern web developer
I’m quite fluent with JavaScript; An HTML whisperer
My code is clean and elegant, I genuinely innovate
And even know my way around a Promise and async / await

I’m very well acquainted too with matters vector graphical
I understand why SVG coordinates seem magical
And even without Photoshop I elegantly can produce
A mockup or a logo in most any format that you choose

[Chorus]
A mockup or a logo in most any format that you choose
A mockup or a logo in most any format that you choose
A mockup or a logo in most any format that you choose

I'm quite adept at ES6 expressions like destructuring
I know the ins and outs of functional reactive programming
In short, in matters browser-based or Node.js if you prefer
I am the very model of a modern web developer

[Chorus]
He is the very model of a modern web developer

I know our mythic history, the humble start, the browser wars
I know why Douglas Crockford fought the battle over ES4
The World Wide Web Consortium and Ecma International
My knowledge of our legacy is truly supernatural

With LESS and SASS and CSS, designing for mobility
I’ll perfectly apply the right amount of specificity
From custom fonts and parallax to grid and flex and border-box
I know most every tip and trick both common and unorthodox

[Chorus]
He knows most every tip and trick both common and unorthodox
He knows most every tip and trick both common and unorthodox
He knows most every tip and trick both common and unorthodox

And when it comes to lazy loading, bundling up and splitting code
There’s nothing quite like Webpack, which of course is built on top of Node
Considering my resume, I’m certain that you will concur
I am the very model of a modern web developer

[Chorus]
He is the very model of a modern web developer

When new frameworks and libraries emerge I must be ravenous
And gobble up the hot new thing, my appetite is bottomless
React and Vue and Angular, Immutable, RxJS
The list will be outdated long before I'm finished singing this

My pull requests rely on multitudinous utilities
To help me lint and test and build, a deluge of analyses
And every single day there are a hundred thousand more to learn
The web is going through an irresponsible amount of churn

[Chorus]
The web is going through an irresponsible amount of churn
The web is going through an irresponsible amount of churn
The web is going through an irresponsible amount of churn

This pace is agonizing! Code from yesterday is obsolete!
The speed of innovation is enough to knock me off my feet!
It's happening too fast! I can’t keep up! I’m tired! It’s all a blur!
I am the very model of a modern web developer!

[Chorus]
He is the very model of a modern web developer!

Any recomendations of CSS framework? I'm currently looking at Bulma (for some reason Vue tutorials are using it a lot), but lacks a little bit in documentation.

What I'm looking:
- Minimal size
- Responsive
- Flexbox based
- Not material (please)
- Without annoying dependencies (OPTIONAL)
- Good or some documentation

I been working with pure javascript and css forever, and for awhile I been avoiding these frameworks and whatnot but now I think it's time to dip my toes, what's the first easiest to learn quickly framework? I heard I should start with react?

Nested CSS declarations without using SASS or similar.

Fewer Javascript frameworks. We have enough.

Spending caps on AWS so I can mess around without worrying about going bankrupt.

[long confession/question]
So I was asked by a client to make an app similar to prisma(not exactly that but let's say a caricature app) and I knew I have to research a lot.

Now I have been loyal to PHP for over 5 years so I first tried with GD and imagick but the results were not very good, so I thought let's try opencv. I didn’t wanna make any compromises so I didn't go the bridging way, I worked on native python even though I am a newbie in it. I was fairly impressed with the cartoonizing results but others weren't. Soon I got to know that this would take much more than simple filter combinations or matrix manipulations.
I read about prisma and got to know it uses deep neural networks for the same.
Now, in the five years I have learnt almost all the things a run-of-the-mill "Full stack Web Developer" should know.
I have a fair knowledge of PHP, many of its frameworks, many js frameworks(obviously jquery), I have a very good understanding of CSS and its models, I have worked on some cool algos and found solutions to many problems but I haven't gotten to stage where I can implement neural networks/machine learning in my projects.
It just scares me.
___
A little back story: I have been the CTO of a small scale company for about 1.5 years now.
___
So all this got me to asking myself should I just step down from the post to a position where I can learn more skills. Managing takes a lot more time where I can't learn a lot. Sure I learnt some other important things but not as much tech knowledge as I would have in a more basic position.

I know not many of you must have read this far, but if you did what do you think I should do? Really depressed at the moment.

Advice needed please.

I have an interview friday for a front end developer. Currently I am junior dev with just a full stack certiticate.

It’s the typical skillset requiremnts JS HTML and CSS with familiar with React, Angular and Vue.

As far as languages I really do not know JS but I know php. Taken a JS class in school found it to be fairly simple and that was my second language I learned.

How do I spend the next 48 hours? Learning JS? Spending time going over frameworks? Refreshing HTML/CSS?

I am much stronger back end than front end but I am hoping this will be more of a front end engineer job requiring the configuration of node packages and such.

I find it really annoying I'm so bad at designing applications, I always have to resort to CSS frameworks as when I try to design applications it looks awful and inconsistent. And also as I'm in secondary school still (high school) when I'm making stuff I have to work on front end as I'm the only person making it and normal users don't like using the terminal. The usage of some CSS frameworks, like bootstrap, is sometimes frowned upon.

Never got why react and all those js frameworks are so popular - css and jquery will load faster and do whatever you want them to not to mention all the jquery plugins you can use for free from fancy box to owl carousel. Sometimes i feel techies like something just because its new

Seems like everyone here is a web developer. As someone who had never made a website before (I do C# Unity things) except a hello world calculator in notepad, what's the best way to make a small website with a few pages?

It will be mostly to post my projects, like an online resume. I'd like to make look like material design on Android.

Should I just go and start experimenting with css and html in a code editor until I get something I like? Or are there any frameworks or tools to make the job easier?

Thanks.

To be the best frontend developer, forget frameworks! you only need two things:

CS and CSS.

!rant

I prefer to write desktop applications or mobile applications (android). Only time I touched web-applications so far was for school.

Tbh, I hate it the way have to do it in school. vanilla js, no css framework, JSP backend (sometimes php 5.4) and that rounded up with eclipse indigo.
Let's not even talk about the fact that we never really talked about js or css in school, so that was even harder for me too begin with (still suck at both of them imo)

I can't express my gratitude for js and css frameworks. They make web development much more fun for me.

💖 laravel, vuejs, materializecss💖

Feel free to suggest me other things, I only completed 2 project with these

I have been 70% focused on front-end development technologies (HTML, CSS, JS,and related frameworks) and 30% on back-end web technologies (PHP, SQL mainly). I enjoy making websites and web apps that look good, but also understand the need for back-end functionality.

My opinion on CSS & component frameworks?
>Build your own and reuse.

Have I done so? No, but always wanted to and I will have the opportunity to build one next year for a company I work for. Best of all, it will be open sourced.

SUPER EXCITED

What do you think about career choice if one loves JavaScript and it's frameworks but hate HtML CSS

I am a beginner in programming. Started to code some 9 months back. So far I have learnt some basic C, Python(from LPTHW), HTML, CSS, JavaScript(from Coursera). I want to advance my skill. One of my relatives who is a programmer too advices me to learn SQL now and then learn PHP. So according to you what should I do now. I also want to develop my Python skills to using its frameworks so that I can make some real stuffs with that.

Pls suggest me my next move and also tell me from where can I learn these things( free courses could be of more help to me). I want to quickly learn the most of these so that I can make a dynamic website and web apps in the near future.

Thanks in advance!