29-year veteran here. Began programming professionally in 1990, writing BASIC applications for an 8-bit Apple II+ computer. Learned Pascal, C, Clipper, COBOL. Ironic side-story: back then, my university colleagues and I used to make fun of old COBOL programmers. Fortunately, I never had to actually work with the language, but the knowledge allowed me to qualify for a decent job position, back in '92.

For a while, I worked with an IBM mainframe, using REXX and EXEC2 scripting languages for the VM/SP operating system. Then I began programming for the web, wrote my first dynamic web applications with cgi-bin shell and Perl scripts. Used the little-known IBM Net.Data scripting language. I finally learned PHP and settled with it for many, many years.

I always wanted to be a programmer. As a kid I dreamed of being like Kevin Flynn, of TRON - create world famous videogames and live upstairs my own arcade place! Later on, at some point, I was disappointed, I questioned my skills, I thought I should do more, I let other people's expectations make feel bad. Then I finally realized I actually enjoy a quieter, simpler life. And I made peace with it.

I'm now like the old programmers I used to mock 30 years ago. There's so much shit inside my brain. And everything seems so damn complex these days. Frameworks, package managers, transpilers, layers and more layers of code. I try to keep up. And the more I learn, the more it seems I don't know.

Sometimes I feel tired. Yet, I still enjoy creating things and solving problems with programming. I still have fun learning. And after all these years, I learned to be proud of my work, even if it didn't turn out to be as glamorous as in the movies.

Every day.

I am a PHP developer.

Yeah, "another PHP is awful" rant... no, not really.

It's just unsuitable for some ambitious projects, just like Ruby and Python are.

First of all, DO NOT EVER use Laravel for large enterprise applications. The same goes for RoR, Django, and other ActiveRecord MVCs.

They are all neat frameworks for writing a todo app, as a better-than-wordpress flexible blogging solution, even as a custom webshop.

Beyond 50k daily users, Active Record becomes hell due to it's lazy fat querying habits. At more than a million users... *depressed sigh*.

PHP is also completely unsuitable for projects beyond 5M lines of code in my opinion. At more than 25M lines... *another depressed sigh*.

You can let your devs read Clean Code and books about architecture patterns, you can teach them about SOLID & DRY, you can write thousands of tests... it doesn't matter.

PHP is scaffolding, it's made of bamboo and rope. It's not brick or concrete. You can build quickly, but it only scales up to a certain point before it breaks in multiple places.

Eventually you run into patterns where even 100% test coverage still doesn't guarantee shit, because the real-life edge cases are just too complex and numerous.

When you're working on a multi-party invoicing system with adapters for various tax codes, or an availability/planning system working across timezones, or systems which implement geographical routefinding coupled to traffic, event & weather prediction...

PHP, Python, Ruby, etc are just missing types.

Every day I run into bugs which could have been prevented if you could use ADTs in a generic way in PHP. PHP7 has pretty good typehints, and they prevent a lot of messy behavior, but they aren't composable. There is no way to tell PHP "this method accepts a Collection of Users", or "this methods returns maybe either an Apple or a Pear, and I want to force the caller to handle both Apple/Pear and null".

Well, you could do that, but it requires a lot of custom classes and trickery, and you have to rewrite the same logic if you want to typehint a "Collection of Departments" instead of "Collection of Users" -- i.e., it's not composable.

Probably the biggest issue is that languages with a (mostly) structural type system (Haskell, Rust, even C#/JVM languages to some degree, etc) are much slower to develop in for the "startup" era of a project, so you grab a weak, quick prototyping language to get started.

Then, when you reach a more grown up phase, you wish you had a better type system at your disposal...

Fuck javascript
Fuck css
Fuck even html
And fuck web dev in general.
i can't do this shit anymore.

i've been working in web for ~2.5 years, 4 different companies, countless frameworks, technologies and tools and it feels good having that kind of knowledge and ability to do anything in this field, but god damn. I'm exhausted of "moving pixels" most of the time.

And i know, maybe different company and position would better suit me, but how often do people hire pure breed back-enders ? not that often, at least not in my country. Everyone has to do everything. And even then, php/sql/sysadmin/devops work doesn't motivate me as much. I need something that would make me actually think.

And so i decided to change my specialty, i'm going to follow my long lived dream - game dev (C++) :)

Oh i know, i'm not naive. I know how difficult and hard it is, but it seems like i've finally matured for it. So i've been waking up at 5 a.m and learning for ~3 hours before work for a few weeks now, and plan to go part-time at my work, after a few months (need to save up some money) for ~6 months, to focus on C++

Then hopefully i'll be able to land a junior position. If not, well, i wouldn't be a problem solver if i let that get to me :)

Saw a guy asking on LinkedIn for PHP frameworks. He was currently using notepad++ as framework.

Say what... 🤓

I don't understand why people tend to shit on certain languages.
I`ve seen my fair share of shit software written in a plethora of languages, and the problem was usually that the devs used the language/framework completely wrong.
Languages and frameworks are designed to solve problems, if you don`t use them in the correct way then you are to blame.

It is like sticking your dick in the exhaust pipe of a Volvo, and then writing a Medium post complaining about your charred dick and how all Volvo's suck. Yeah I'm talking about you PHP haters, all of you that shit on Java on a daily basis and you morons saying "python is slow"

Don't get me wrong, I send PHP shitposts/memes all day to my friends working with it. But if my code doesn't work, it is my fault and I own up to it.

With that said, I will blow my brains out before writing a single line more of PHP

Rant over

Hello there, just couple of words about PHP. I've been develop on PHP more than 10 years, I've seen it all 3,4,5,{6},7. Yes PHP was not good in terms of engineering and patterns, but it was simple, it was the most simple language for web to start those days. It was simple as you put code into file, upload it via FTP and it works. No java servlets, no unix consoles, no nothing, just shared hosting account was enough to host site, or even application with database. As database everybody used to have mysql, again because its simple to start and easy to maintain. So PHP+MySQL became industry standard on Web during 00-2012, and continues in some way.
You can write HTML and logic inside single file, within php code, even more single file may content few pages, or even kind of framework. That simplicity and agility sticks everybody who wants to develop sites with PHP.
This is pretty much about why it is so popular.

Each good or wannabe PHP developer in an early days write its own framework or library (like in javascript this days because of nodejs)

Imagine that PHP has hadn't have package manager, developers used to have host packages on their own sites, then various packages catalog sites created, and then finally composer. A gazillions of php code had spread over internet, without any kind of dependency control. To include libraries to your projects you have to just write include, or require. Some developers do it better than others.

So what we have ? A lots of code, no repositories, zip archives with libraries, no dependency control.
Project that uses that kind of code are still alive even today, they are solid hose of cards, and unmaintainable of course.

And main question that I'm trying to answer is Why PHP is not good ?
- First is amount of legacy code which people copy and pasted into their project, spread it even more like a virus.
- Lack of industry standards at the beginning lead to a lots of bad practices among developers. PHP code usually smells.
open source php projects in early days was developed in same conditions so even in phpbb, phpnuke, wordpress, drupal used to have a lot of bad practices in their codebase. So php developers usually not study by another library, instead they write their own frameworks/libraries.
- "It works", - there are no strong business demands, on web development, again because lack of standards, and concerns.
This three things are basically same, they linked to each other and summarize of answer of why PHP have strong smells and everybody yelling against it.

Whats is with PHP nowadays ? Of course PHP today is more influenced by good practice of webdev. Composer, Zend, Laravel, Yii, Symphony and language it self became more adult so to say, but developers...

People who never tried anything except PHP are usually weaker in programming and ecosystem knowledge than people who tried something else, python, perl, ruby, c for instance.

Summary

PHP as any other programming language is a tool. Each tool has its own task. Consider this and your task requirements and PHP can be just good enough solution.
"PHP is shit" - usually you heard that from people who never write strong applications on PHP and haven't used any good tools like Symphony or Laravel.
Cheap developers, - the bigger community, the more chance to hire cheap developers, and more chance to get bad code. That can be applied on any other language.
PHP has professionals developers, usually they have not only php on scope.

That's all folks, this is very brief, I am not covering php usage early days in details, but this is good enough to understand the point.

Enjoy.

Hot take: PHP is pretty good nowadays.

I'm a Laravel dev right now and things just get done so quickly. Every language has its problems but the meme of PHP hate seems to be made more out of ignorance these days. You could find just as many problems with any other language.

For those that say I'm biased because I work through the framework more than the language, I'd ask don't you do the same? ASP.NET, Java EE, the millions of JS frameworks, all these also make your life easier within their languages.

In the end, work with what makes you happy and productive and be done with it.

I fucking hate websites that refuse to show their content unless you enable their JS clusterfuck. Yes I am blocking JavaScript because I'm sick of all those goddamn frameworks from God knows what domain. IS THAT FUCKING WRONG?!! I don't hate front-end devs, in fact I respect them for keeping up with design needs of shitty clients. But that fucking Web 2.0 with 50 frameworks per tab and no HTML or even PHP whatsoever for those who block your JS crap.. shove it right up your fucking ass!!!

Joomla!

We took PHP and made it worse... somehow.

Can we all take a moment to appreciate what a complete mess web technologies are.

We're abusing a markup language made for scientific writing, by styling it with css and in order to make it dynamic somehow, we run a weird ass scripting language on the clientside.

Because nobody really wants to use this burning garbage can, some of us invented web frameworks.

And let's not get started on php...

I developed a simple scholarship management system for my school using Laravel, MySQL, jQuery and Bootstrap, I did it for free since college students from my country have to pay social service to get their degrees. Everyone in the scholarships department seemed to be really happy with my work and they evaluated my social service with 10/10, but yesterday they asked for one last favor: to go talk to the new social service guy who'll be supposed to maintain my project, a mid 30's dude who was really pissed off from the beginning because he wasn't even able to deploy the project, he wasn't even able to clone the project from Github. Ok, so I tried to explain to him the tools I used and how the project was structured, but everything I said seemed to piss him even more, so I stopped and had a chat like:

Me: "Look man, do you know or at least have basic concepts of PHP and MVC frameworks?"

Guy: "Yes, but I'm a project manager, not just –despectively– any programmer, and you didn't write proper documentation, it's impossible to deploy your project with the manual you wrote, I cannot work like this".

*We go to their computer and I clone and setup the project in 3 minutes.

Guy: "Yes, but I still don't know how the project works, I need everything documented. If I have to change something, I don't know where to look.

Me: "Man, that's why asked you about knowing PHP MVC frameworks".

Guy: "I cannot work like this, nothing is documented, I don't even know what's that software you're using *points at Sublime Text*. Or tell me, can you arrive at a place where they expect you to work with something you don't know and they have no documentation?"

*At this point he was really pissed

Me: "Well... Dealing with non-documented software is what I do for a living"

Guy: "I don't know what companies you've worked for, probably not big ones..."

Me: "Well, I actually work for *I mention one of the biggest music apps in the country*"

*Guy ironically laughs

When I gave my feedback to the lady in charge of the department, I told her that this guy was really pissed off at how things were done and that I wasn't so sure of him being capable of maintaining the system. She told me not to worry, that the guy became a well known asshole in the office only after a few days, and that she'll probably have to find something else for him to do. It'd be hilarious if this guy ends up capturing scholarships in the system I made.

Job Qualifications:
...
Proficient in PHP, MySQL, and PHP Frameworks
Experience in Bootstrap CSS
...

Required Skill:
...
- PHP
- MySQL
- C <----------------- ??? The hell is this!
- C# <---------------- ??? What the?!
- CSS
...

Probably a startup company???

From my last job interview (which I got hired btw)

Lead developer: "so we see quite a lot of frameworks that you listed for php, Laravel,cakephp, codeigniter, we really like the idea of them but have not had the opportunity to use them since as you might know by know our pages run over basic and small scripts, you also listed some cool front end frameworks, react looks amazing and I do have somr experience. Tell me, if given the choice, which framework would you use for php?"

Me: Really depends on the project, but the ones that you have described previously seem that they would not really benefit from them, we should not use them if they are overkill or will not expand to anything else on the future"

Him: "But given the choice?"

Me: my own framework, completed it a couple of days ago, it has its own routing system and everything made by yours truly, used it before on some projects in which the developers work with it with no need to ask me about stuff, the documentation is sound and the code rather simple. Php is and can really be all you need depending on what we are talking about."

Him: **stands up, moves closer to me and fist bumps**
"All right now moving on, i was wondering abouy redux, what are the benefits of..."

Walked out of there like a boss, it got interesting when we started talking about Lisp, apparently they are interested in putting some Clojure to test in small things since they want to learn new things and apply them. Yup, this gon b good!!

My tech stack progression:

Started with PHP without any frameworks, using a homegrown MVC architecture. Used to use `mysql_` functions everywhere. And only jquery + vanilla CSS in the front end.

Then moved to use PDO functions in PHP and Backbone.js + Less CSS in the front-end.

Then moved to Django in the back-end. Did not like Django very much as it is too opinionated and not flexible (although it's damn good for rapid development if you buy into their type of things).

Then moved to Flask + SQLAlchemy and using a home grown architecture. This is a sweet spot for me in terms of back end and stayed in this spot for the longest time.

Moved to Postgres from MySQL as I fell in love with Postgres.

Then learnt React+Redux. Liked it. Made most sense to front-end development this way. Moved front-end stack to React+Redux.

Learning Haskell and been working with Scotty and eyeing Servant for a while now.

Let's see where it goes from here.

PS: this is my personal journey through various tech stacks in various products at various companies I have worked. I'm not talking about moving a product through these many tech stacks. That doesn't make any sense.

I'll use this topic to segue into a related (lonely) story befitting my mood these past weeks.

This is entire story going to sound egotistical, especially this next part, but it's really not. (At least I don't think so?)

As I'm almost entirely self-taught, having another dev giving me good advice would have been nice. I've only known / worked with a few people who were better devs than I, and rarely ever received good advice from them.

One of those better devs was my first computer science teacher. Looking back, he was pretty average, but he held us to high standards and gave good advice. The two that really stuck with me were: 1) "save every time you've done something you don't want to redo," and 2) "printf is your best debugging friend; add it everywhere there's something you want to watch." Probably the best and most helpful advice I've ever received 😊

I've seen other people here posting advice like "never hardcode" or "modularity keeps your code clean" -- I had to discover these pretty simple concepts entirely on my own. School (and later college) were filled with terrible teachers and worse students, and so were almost entirely useless for learning anything new.

The only decent dev I knew had brilliant ideas (genetic algorithms, sandboxing, ...) before they were widely used, but could rarely implement them well because he was generally an idiot. (Idiot sevant, I think? Definitely the idiot part.) I couldn't stand him. Completely bypassing a ridiculously long story, I helped him on a project to build his own OS from scratch; we made very impressive progress, even to this day. Custom bootloader, hardware interfacing, memory management, (semi) sandboxed processes, gui, example programs ...; we were in highschool. I'm still surprised and impressed with what we accomplished.

But besides him, almost every other dev I met was mediocre. Even outside of school, I went so many years without having another competent dev to work with. I went through various jobs helping other dev(s) on their projects (or rewriting them), learning new languages/frameworks almost every time: php, pascal, perl, zend, js, vb, rails, node, .... I learned new concepts occasionally (which was wonderful) but overall it was just tedious and never paid well because I was too young to be taken seriously (and female, further exacerbating it). On the bright side, it didn't dwindle my love for coding, and I usually spent my evenings playing with projects of my own.

The second dev (and one one of the best I've ever met) went by Novo. His approach to a game engine reminded me of General Relativity: Everything was modular, had a rich inheritance tree, and could receive user input at any point along said tree. A user could attach their view/control to any object. (Computer control methods could be attached in this way as well.) UI would obviously change depending on how the user could interact and the number of objects; admins could view/monitor any of these. Almost every object / class of object could talk to almost everything else. It was beautiful. I learned so much from his designs. (Honestly, I don't remember the code at all, and that saddens me.) There were other things, too, but that one amazed me the most.

I havent met anyone like him ever again.

Anyway, I don't know if I can really answer this week's question. I definitely received some good advice while initially learning, but past that it's all been through discovering things on my own.

It's been lonely. ☹

Want a backend in Node? You got it. PhP using the plethora of frameworks available? No problem.

Feeling like a gipsy guitarrist and want to lay it down with Django? Good taste!

In a hurry and need your startup off the ground with React integration in rails? Piece of cake.

Feeling springy and want you some coffee and Java with your app? A la carte.
Wanna pull my leg and force me to do .net? Mm ok if you insist.

You sure you want Perl with that? Ok no problem.

.....but you sit me and my awesome powers of backend mastery and force me to do css and design all week and you literally destroy my soul......this shit is soul crushing I swear.....

Hi guys!
That is my first...well, rant? No, not at all.

I found this community by accident. I was looking for something like this, but did not realize til now. I scrolled through some posts and it is awesome to read awesome stories and rants from awesome people.

I am a 21 year old SAP ABAP developer from Germany. I have finished my bachelor's degree (business informatics/business information management? German: Wirtschaftsinformatik) last August. I have always been interested in web development and teached myself some php basics when I was younger. I would love to do more things like that, but things have changed. There are lots of different frameworks, languages and stuff. It's complicated.

I am not sure if I have understood how this community works, but I am very excited to find out.

And, as I already mentioned, I am German. So please feel free to bash my shitty English. :D

Made a Website.
What this friendly old Lady wanted: a update to her poem/song website that looked horrible.
What she got: A goddamn masterpiece considering there is NO backend and I got nearly no ressources to work with.
It took forever to put that stuff together since I thought I dont need any frameworks at all. I didnt know PHP at all back then, so I just went all out with everything that pure HTML and CSS could give me.
I even went outside to make nice photos to put into the Background.
....so, he said no PHP or anything? YES! If you wanna add content you change the HTML and upload stuff via Filezilla. I dont really want to see it ever again. But not because it looks bad.

I know, its not really coding since its HTML but I Count this!

Genie, my first wish is that you double the amount of JavaScript frameworks, every day.

Genie, my second wish is that you make PHP even more of a mess. Huh, not possible? Alright, my second wish is that my browser history is cleared when I die.

Genie, my third and final wish is that Linux will be owned by Microsoft and released as a DLC to Windows Vista.

Happy developing!

In the Ruhr area (Germany) we have some very old, very strange words with strange meanings. One of those words is ‚Prutscher‘.
A Prutscher refers to a person who does things but never gets a good result, due to lack of knowledge or simple carelessness. Most of the time, Prutschers are people who are interested in certain subjects and often work in the related jobs, but who lack the motivation to properly train themselves, learn what there is to learn and to always keep up with their technologies .
Here are a few examples I've stumbled upon so far in my career:

- Developers in their 60's who read a book about PHP 25 years ago and decided to become a software developer. Since then haven't read anything about it. Who then now build huge spaghetti monoliths for large companies, in which they prefix every function, every variable and constant with their initials and, of course, use Hungarian notation.

- People who read half a fucking tutorial about <insert any fancy js framework here> and start blogging/tweeting about it

- Senior web developers who need to be told what the fuck CORS is and who can't even recognize CORS related errors in their browser console.

- People who have done nothing else for 18 years than building websites for companies on Wordpress 1.x and writing few lines of PHP and Javascript from time to time. Those who are now applying as a frontend dev due to the difficult economic situation and are surprised that they are not accepted due to a lack of experience.

- Developers who are the only ones working on Windows in the team and ask their Linux colleagues for help when Windows starts bitchin.

- People who have been coding for 30 years, have worked with ~42 languages ​​and don't know the difference between compiled and interpreted languages ​​in the job interview.

- Chief developers at a large newsletter-publisher who think it's a good idea to build your own CMS (due to a lack of good existing ones, of course).

- Developers who have been writing PHP applications for multinational corporations for 25 years and cannot explain how PHP is executed. They don't even know what the fucking OPcache is, let alone fpm. FML

- People who call themselves professional developers but never ever heard of DRY, KISS, boy-scout rule, 12-Factor App, SOLID, Clean Code, Design Patterns, ...

- Senior developers wondering why the bash script won't run on their fucking Windows machine.

- Developers who consider Typescript to be a hindrance and see no value in it.

- Developers using ftp for deployments in 2022

- Senior Javascript Developer applying for a job and for whom Integer is a primitive data type in JS.

- Developers who prefer to code without frameworks and libraries because they are only an unnecessary burden/overhead and you can quickly code everything up yourself.

- Developers who think configuring their server(s) manually is a good idea.

You fucking Prutscher. What you have already cost me in terms of work and nerves. I can't even put it into words how deeply I despise you. I have more respect for the chewing gum that has been stuck in my damn trash can for the past 3 years than I do for you guys. You are the disgrace of our profession. I will haunt you in your dreams and prefix every fucking synapse of your brain with MY initials.

As a well-known german band once sang in a very fitting song: I wouldn't even piss on you if you were on fire.

If you recognized yourself in one of the examples here: FUCK YOU!

GoodGuy BroCow
Senoir problem
2years back

Senoir dev was assigned to make a webapp for billing

Dude uses dreamviewer and writes code like a bitch

Phpmysqljqueryhtml whole thing mixed very badly and undocumented

His function name format fun_1()

a simple update cost him a day,

Told him to use brackets atleast and also a framework ,guy denies

Days go by

He learns a lot of stuffs from me ,like how to use inspect in chrome lol, how to use sqlite for small projects , and orm and frameworks.

He used to pin his mistakes on me, so that boss gets angry on me

Then i quit the job

2 years went by

Now he is unemployed, nobody wants a 24 year old plain php coder and template editing web developer

Anyway I hired him, he was my first senior, whatever he did,it didnt matter to me, bcoz i remember

the days we spent on the same hall right next to each other coding in php,

days we brainstormed to fix a div

Also the days we ate lunch and breakfast together

Why is there such a big hatred towards PHP ? I have recently started backend dev in Laravel and it seems to be a pretty good framework. Most E-commerce frameworks are based on PHP as well. If PHP is so bad then why is it so widely used ?

I am not trying to defend PHP , but I genuinely want to know what's wrong with it ? I might switch to other backend tech then.

Me and my friend (let's call him Tom) have done tons of projects before and got some decent knowledge, but we got a dude (Bob) working with us on that final project of Uni and he doesn't know what Git is nor what frameworks are so we chose CodeIgniter ONLY to make it easy for him.

2 month after starting the project and getting like half of the work done (mainly me and Tom) Bob 'kind of' learned PHP, CodeIgniter and Git so he wanted to contribute because the project manager will review all the commits done weekly.

So Bob did some HTML (what now?) and wanted to push it on the repo and even using Gitkraken as opposed to the Git CLI he managed to merge two f*** branches, and when he doesn't mess up the repo he totally ignores the files' structure of the project and makes his own thing.

Worst thing is, when Tom tries (I gave up a long time ago) to teach him something or to give him advice he's all like "Oh okay" "Yeah" "Got it!" but he doesn't understand anything and he won't admit it ! It's like talking to a wall...

I love static sites and fancy new frameworks. Had an interview some time ago at a medium sized company. They specifically wanted someone to build static sites and introduce the company to Vue and Gridsome.
I got really excited for my first project. It was a wordpress site and I had to build a custom WP theme for it. Not exactly what I expected. Also I had no prior PHP knowledge, nor any experience with Wordpress. So I got really upset, because it wasn’t the technologies I was used to.
The first week was hard, I wanted to quit. But once something clicked. And I realized I know this. This is not PHP, not Wordpress, not Vue, but just simply a programming language. At the core everything programming language is the same. PHP became comfortable, Wordpress conventions didn’t bother me. I realized I can use great technologies with WP too. I get to know twig, added some sass, compiled everything nicely with webpack. And after a month I have a beautiful, fast and efficent site. I love it.
I realised that I don’t love the languages and frameworks. I love coding itself. I love creating efficent and reliable, clean code. No matter the architecture.
And my advice for you is to stop hating particular languages and serious debates on what is better, and hating your job when you can’t code in your new shiny framework. Love coding itself, because it’s a wonderful activity. We are creators, we are artists. Not <insert specific programming language here> developers.

TL;DR you suck, I suck and everybody sucks, deal with it....

------------------------------------

Let me let off some steam, since I've had enough of people hating on languages "just because"

Every language has it's drawbacks and quirks, BUT they have their strengths also. Saying "I hate {language}" is just you being and ignorant prick and probably your head is so far up your ass that you look like an ass hat. With that being said, every language is either good or bad depending on the developer writing in it. Let's give you an example:

If I ware to give you a brick and ask you to put a nail in a plank, can you do it? Yes, it will be easier if you do it with a hammer, but you have a brick, so hammer is out of the question. If you hit your thumb while doing it... well... sorry, but it is not the bricks fault - it is YOU!

JavaScript, yes it has a whole lot of problems, but it works, you can do a ton of stuff and does a good job at that, it is evolving through node and typescript (and others, just a personal pref), BUT if you used js when you ware debugging that jquery (1.0) plugin written in the free time of a 13 yo, who copy pasted a bunch from SO, well, it is not js' problem - deal with it. Same goes for PHP, i've been there where you had a single `index.php` with bazillion lines of code, did a bunch of eval and it was called MVC, but it also is evolving.. thing is all languages allow you to do some dumb stuff so YOU have to be responsible to not fuck it up (which you always DO btw, we all do). Difference is PHP/JS roll with it because the assumption is that you know what you are doing, which again - newsflash - you don't.

More or less I would blame that shit on businesses which decided to go with undergrads to save money instead of investing in their product, hell, I am in a major company that does not invest that doesn't care a whole lot about dev /tech stuff and now everybody's mother is an engineer - they care about money, because investors care about money (ROI) and because clean code does not pay the bills, but money does.

If we get all of the good practices and apply them to each language every one of them has it's place, that is why there is no "The Language", even if there was, we STILL ware going to fuck it up and probably it was going to be even worse than where we are now.

Study, improve, rinse and repeat... There are SENIORS and LEADS out there that are about 25-30 and have no fucking clue about the language, because they have stuck up their heads up the ass of frameworks and refuse to take a breath of clean air and consider something different than their dogmatic framework "way" of doing things.. That is the result you are seeing. Let me give you a fresh example to illustrate where I am at atm:

Le me works with ZendFramework 2.3-2.5 (why not, which is PHP5+ running on PHP7 [fancy, eh]), and little me writes a module for said project, and tries to contain it in its own space, i.e not touching anything outside of the folder of the module so it is SELF-CONTAINED (see, practices), during 2-3-4 iterations of code review, I've had to modify 4 different modules with `if (somthing === self::SOMETHING_TYPE)` as requested by my TL, which resulted in me not covering 3 use-cases after the changes and not adding a new event (the fw is event-driven, cuz.. reasons) so I have to use a bunch of ifs in the code, to check a config value and do shit. That is the way of I am asked to do things I hate what I've done and the fact that because of CR I have lost case-coverage, a week of work and the same TL will be on my ass on monday that things are now "perfect".

The biggest things is "we care about convention and code style"... right.... That is not because of the language, not because of me, not because of the framework - it is some dude's opinion that you hate, not the language.

New stuff are better, reinventing the wheel is also good, if it wasn't you would've had a few stone circular things on your car and things ware going to be like that - we need to try and try, that is the only way we actually learn shit.

Until things change in the trade, we will be on the same boat, complaining about the same shit over and over, you and me won't be alive probably but things will not change a bit.

We live in a place where state is considered good, god objects necessary (can you believe it, I've got kudos for using the term 'God Object'... yep, let that sink in). If you really hate something, please, oh god I beg you, show me how you will do it better and I will shake your hand and buy you a beer, but until then, please keep your ass-hurt fanboy opinion to your self, no one gives a shit about what you think, we will die and the world will not notice...

Why do job descriptions for ONE developer position, list down ALL the known programming languages, all the web technologies and frameworks available? From java kotlin swift php js jquery node to ionic angular laravel python and what not. Wtf? And this is not one, this is about 70 percent of the job descriptions I see these days!!

Dear people who create frameworks and libraries,

Please don't advertise your stuff as 'super easy to use', 'incredibly lightweight', 'no configuration needed', 'seamless integration' and shit like this. We all know it's a big fat fucking lie. Just be honest and write 'it supposed to be all-purpose but won't solve your problem', 'a huge fucking chaotic mess', 'slow as shit', 'will eat up all your resources', 'might be good but we've lost the documentation' or 'actually worse than vanilla'. If you'd do this, the world would be a better place.

Thanks,

Problem: ugly-ass php spaghetti code that has a technical debt of 16(!!!) years. I mean, it's so spaghetti that has two legacy frameworks that talk to each other inside the same monolith.

Observation: after two months my colleagues, trying to refactoring stuff, they were able to touch so little stuff that it almost made no difference.

How much is worth a rewrite? Because i don't think i can make a difference on a codebase so messy.
I know that rewrite is not the answer 99.9999% of the time, but i have tons of doubts here.

frameworks are great and all but it gets much harder to google stuff. a lot of people use php, not that many use cake

After 3 interviews with test:
"Ok very good, I see you are good with JavaScript, Php, MySQL and some frameworks, it's exactly what we need because we use only on the edge technologies and we do very cool products."
"Thanks, so what about the first app?"
"App? oh no eheh, now you must manage our 12 wordpress sites and edit the CSS!"
"Very good, so while I see you all goin to fuck monkeys I with to you a nice day"

Subaru's Symmetrical AWD is the best thing in the world at the moment. Also, warning: !dev

Tl;dr: I'm getting another RPi3 thanks to awesome engineering.

Got a couple of inches of light snow here, and on my way home I came across a GMC Sierra dually stuck at the bottom of a moderately sized ditch. Naturally, I stopped by in my Forester and offered to tow it out.

With my 20ft tow rope stretched to its full length I was barely touching the road. He signalled that he was ready, and I gunned it. Slowly but surely the truck crawled out of the 6ft deep trench. She crested the hill with much applause (from me and the driver of the truck). As a thanks, he gave me $30.

Looks like I'm gonna get a new Raspberry Pi to play with. I think I'll turn this one into a countertop MAME arcade machine.

And for those of you wondering why I'm praising Symmetrical AWD as opposed to AWD in general, here's a quick lesson in drivetrains:
Most all wheel drive cars power the front wheels most of the time. This saves on fuel economy. The thing is, power is only transmitted to the rear wheels when the front wheels start to lose traction. At that point you're already screwed; only two wheels at any one time are putting useful power to the road.
Symmetrical AWD systems, like you'll find in all Subarus and most performance cars, distribute the vehicle's torque eaqually front-rear at all times. So instead of waiting until the front wheels start slipping, all of the wheels are powered right off the bat.

To make this more devvy: grrrr php, vim is best, I configured the tab key to enter four spaces, js has too many damn frameworks and they're still being pumped out faster than rabbits in a bunny farm.

More like a sub company/department inside a company: Android.

I still use it as my main driver, but every time I try to get back into development with it(did it professionally for 2 years nearing on 3 and was a lead Android dev, mind you not necessarily by merit....) I end up hating everything about it.

The tooling is meh, the API is hideous and even with the addition of Kotlin, which I do find a nicer language over Java I still dislike it. The ammount of shit needed to make something as simple as store data, manage fragments, integrate with the NDK, make JSON API calls or even shake motions is just ludicrous and counter intuitive. I can see why people would hate Java based on Android, a language that I generally love and defend.
I firmly believe that people extend frameworks or tooling for 2 reasons only:

1 the stack is so awesome that you just want to create packages and libraries to extend the functionality of a powerful environment, like gems for Ruby, python packages, Node packages, php composer, nuget etc

2 the stack is so fucking hideous that people need to fix shit: the entire android square utility framework, butterknife, flutter, react native, codenameone, etc etc

The case with Android is the second. I have not met a professional Android developer that completely likes everything about Android, but will seldom find people that HATE other frameworks or environments.

Android it is for me. Still my daily driver and I love every Android phone I have ever owned. It just makes me feel lots of more compassion for fellow Android devs.

Had an interesting application for a web / fs position the other day. Some guy in his 40s sent a CV, along with a bunch of 5+ years old reference letters (recommending him for things like PHP 5.3 and ExtJs 4). A bit outdated but okay.

And then, he put in a list of NPM packages he used. Not just relevant frameworks like Angular & React, or tools like Webpack and Babel. No. A list. Of. NPM. Packages. There were things like UUID there, which is literary a single function!

Ok, here goes...

I was once asked to evaluate upgrade options for an online shop platform.

The thing was built on Zend 1, but that's not the problem.

The geniuses that worked on it before didn't have any clue about best practices, framework convention, modular thinking, testing, security issues...nothing!

There were some instances when querying was done using a rudimentary excuse for a model layer. Other times, they would just use raw queries and just ignore the previous method. Sometimes the database calls were made in strange function calls inside randomly loaded PHP files from different folders from all over the place. Sometimes they used JOINs to get the data from multiple tables, sometimes they would do a bunch of single table queries and just loop every data set to format it using multiple for loops.

And, best of all, there were some parts of the app that would just ignore any ideea of frameworks, conventions and all that and would be just a huge PHP file full of spagetti code just spalshed around, sometimes with no apparent logic to it. Queries, processing, HTML...everything crammed in one file...

The most amazing thing was that this code base somehow managed to function in production for more than 5 years and people actualy used it...

Imagine the reaction I got from the client the moment I said we should burn it to the ground and rebuild the whole thing from scratch...

Good thing my boss trusted me and backed me up (he is a great guy by the way) and we never had to go along with that Frankenstein monster...

This might not resonate with many ranters here... but FUCK Taylor Otwell & Graham Campbell.

Like, not on a personal level. Maybe they're great to drink a beer with. But as framework devs... fuck everything about them.

Laravel seems so nice, it takes away many annoyances of developing in PHP. Collections are the array object you've always needed. The route bindings, middlewares, request validation objects, it's all sweet.

But eventually your company serves a few million customers, you run into specific performance problems or missing features on a deeper level. You open the issue tracker... and see a few hundred issues about the problems you are encountering, they already exist.

Some just have a short paragraph with a request for a feature, some complete PRs with tests in the style of the framework. All of them closed.

Reasons?

"We don't think anyone will ever need this"
"This seems complicated, you can just do <super non-DRY hacky code>"

FUCK YOU WITH YOUR TODO APP SNIPPETS AND USER-POST-ARTICLE EXAMPLES. I'M NOT BUILDING THE NEXT WORDPRESS. I'M DEALING WITH THE REALITY OF GRAPH DATABASE CLUSTERS, COMPLEX AUDITING LOGS AND A GAZILLION QUERIES PER SECOND.

Sigh... the problem with all these "simple" and "elegant" languages & frameworks is that they don't fucking scale.

Not because the language, server or framework intrinsically can't do it, but because the maintainers are stuck thinking in terms of their retarded non-realistic example apps.

I think I'll go back to my cave and write some Haskell or Rust to calm down.

The web is just a fucked up place. Anytime i have an idea and wanna slap together an mvp, i always feel like web standards are just made by people who have no professional training and once every year come up with some bullshit so they dont get fired.

Figure 1: cors
You wpuld think that setting "access-control-allow-origin" to * would let, well, * through, like in every other field of programming, but no, make sure all 97 other headers match or you will just get a cors error. The server expects application/json and you didnt specify that? Fuck you, have a cors error. Both express and flask have specific packages addressing this one problem so i guess im not the only one.

Figure 2: frameworks
Remember reactive programming? Remember rxjs? No you dont because all frameworks reimplement rx with shadow dom fuckery. Did you know you can have your fucking templates with 5 lines of rxjs code? Amazing huh?

Figure 3: php
It still exists for some reason.

What To Learn?

I'm a beginner in web development and have knowledge about html, css, JavaScript, jQuery, Sass, NodeJS, Express, MongoDB, Passport. You can consider me to be a beginner full stack developer, but I'm confused about what to learn further. There are so many front end frameworks that one can spend his entire life learning them. React, Vue, Angular, Backbone, etc. But I always want to learn backend properly, then there's Rails, PHP, SQL, Python. Can anyone atleast tell me what to learn and why exactly? This thing's making me mad and anxious.

In a job that I am WAY over my head. Onboarding is a shitshow like usual the devs did not know I was starting until the day before. My only real expierence is school doing php/laravel. Very honest in my interview only a year of codecamp at a local community college and very small tasks at my old job.

This is a JS app using a bunch of old frameworks/ libraries. I was told it was React in the interview.

How long until they fire me for being i competent?

In the US and working for a defense contractor. Which I was told it was harder to fire people.

3 mos? 6 mos?

Got contacted for a job "interview" by a company because they were looking for "people with my skill set". All my profiles say I am a fullstack web dev with experience in frontend js frameworks and js and php backend frameworks.

Come in to find the "interview" is an exam. Ok, fine. My brain could do with some exercise.

After the basic IQ type questions, I get the web dev exam.

It is 95% of the questions are about CSS and HTML basics.

WHAT. THE. ACTUAL. FUCK.

I started noticing something about startups here. They all think they r innovative and full of fresh ideas, but they all just copy bigger companies. My old coworker started a small web dev company and they are using php with react, the company ladder is the fucking same as anywhere else.

I noticed these as i was collecting ideas for a company (if i write that word again pls shoot me). So far we are thinking
0) no, or minimal local storage, we would have a github subscription, jira cloud, vps
1) no strict hierarchy, ultimately the ceos would make the decisions but in every meeting we would include even the interns
2) the stack would not be set in stone, java spark and vuejs are good starting points but frameworks exist to serve a purpose
3) like 2-3 days office time per week, if someone wants to work from a café, why not

I applied for software engineer in a software development firm. It clearly states in my resume that I am mainly a PHP developer in my current job. The company I applied for focuses on javascript frontend frameworks with Java Spring or node.js as backend.

The screening consisted of three parts; written exams, panel interview and the final interview. It lasted for a whole day, and when It's time for the final interview, the interviewer said that there are no slots left for trainee/junior level which is my level with 5 yrs experience in the industry.

I understand that this means that I will be trained with the technology that they are using so it will be an entry-level job but I submitted my resume several days ago and they didn't reviewed it first before making me attend the screening. I just wasted my time with this! They could've said from the start that they are not looking for people that do not have any experience with this technology/framework.

Fuck

Finally finished the longest ticket I've ever worked on in my life. The ticket title and description was a pretty simple and straightforward one: "Upgrade from PHP 7.4 to 8".

If it was only so simple in real life. Our application is mostly done with API Platform framework, which is based on top of Symfony framework which is based on top of PHP language.

Once I did PHP 7 => 8 upgrade I needed to upgrade API Platform 2 => 3. But of-course that couldn't have been done as before that I needed to upgrade from Symfony 5 => 6.

This all was literally an equivalent of touching into a wasp nest - it took me a bit over 5 months and 800 hours of work and there was literally not a single source file left untouched.

In the process of all of this I've ran into literally dozen undocumented feature-breaking changes, broken backwards-compatibility promises and inside out architectural changes - from both the frameworks and the language itself.

Upgrading just one major version of anything SHOULD NOT be so hard. And to top it all up just to think I will need to do this again in a year or two..

Experiences like these really set my hate for time-based model of releases and the state of today's development in general.

Learn nodejs, love it, abandon it coz most jobs in the country want php and none heard about the new js frameworks.

1 year later, decide to change job, look at posting to find senior php position, all companies want node, angular, react & vue...

Age 8 - Gets first computer and struggles with dial up Internet and my parents yelling at that they ended to use the phone

Ages 12 to 18 - Gets first laptop, starts messing around and interested in websites, gets involved with SMF, and open source message board system written in Php, and starts helping people out, eventually getting paid work for setting up websites etc.. which lead onto learning html/CSS and picking up bits and pieces of Php (and also Photoshop/Illustrator etc..)

Age 18 - Goes to college to study Multimedia, refreshes knowledge of HTML/CSS, learns a bit of Actionscript and some PHP

Age 20 - finishes Multimedia degree, ends up working as an IT consultant for a small business, which leads me to pick up a bit of bash scripting, small hit more PHP. Leaves this after 3months and decides to do a small Software Dev course. Get my first taste of Java and Visual Basic there

21 - Enter into a Software Dev degree. Dive deep into Java and a small bit of Javascript.

23 - After 2nd year of college get taken on an internship with a large multinational where I learn and get hands on experience with Angular, JS, Coffeescript and C#

Present Day - currently coming up to the end of my degree and can switch between Java, C#, Python, Coffeescript/Javascript (front-end or Node) , C and Golang, C and Python introductions from college modules which I kept playing with in my spare time, Golang I just heard of and decided to write a few things in it because why not, I've picked up various frameworks (spring, echo, express etc.) at some point. I basically learn by doing, if something interests me and I enjoy it, I seem to pick it up quickly by diving in and trying to use it.

It's going to be a long rant here and probably my fist rant ! And yes I am pissed up with a community growing in dev world .
There are so called framework experts who are so good that they can spin up a nodejs server with express and mongodb .
So to the people who bash on php , who bash down MySQL for no fuckig reason other than they have heard these are not so cool.fuck yourself incompetent piece of crap!!! I can hear all day about how algorithms and datsructure are not important form these people.fuck you because if you don't know /understand /want to understand the basics of computing how the fuck can your brain be trusted with anyting serious??If you can't write down proofs of basic / standard algorithms and till bash down on people who do those please fuck you because those are the people indirectly responsible for your Job so that u can work on fancy frameworks and cool IDE's .
Instead of whining down dedicate some time to your maturity and knowledge because that what we devs are all about.we like solving problems right?.
I repeat if you are anything like stating up it career in mid 20s maybe.leave everything if you can .Forget all fucking frameworks and technologies start with basics of computing, right at instruction level using assembly .Then move to a higher language when u know and reason about what your CPU is actually doing.
If you can't do that and keep on crying and bashing down things wihout proper explanations fuck yourself with a cactus .

Hello fellow developers!

I know this is devRant, but I don't know of a better community with such diversity of developers like you guys and I need your input.

I decided to go on a language journey. I come from a background of php/javascript and feel the need to expand my horizons.

I'm going to write the same app in each language to get the feel of it and become familiar with the syntax and language concepts.

Since I'm a web developer I'll focus mainly on languages used on the web like: Java, Python, Ruby, etc.. But I want to cover others as well, like Objective-C/Swift, C++/C#.

I'm having trouble figuring out what kind of an app would cover most of the ground. I know the basic guideline for this is a TODO app for web frameworks, but I
don't feel like writing a TODO in Swift or C# really cover what the languages are intended for.

I don't know enough about the environments yet to come up with a good idea.

I want something, that can be language independent but would utilize the power of each language in one part or another and is still simple enough not to require weeks of development.

Does anyone have a brilliant idea what that could be?

Another JavaScript joke because, why not?

Still curious though.. Which Frameworks (for JavaScript and PHP) do you guys actually use?

It's been a while DevRant!

Straight back into it with a rant that no doubt many of us have experienced.

I've been in my current job for a year and a half & accepted the role on lower pay than I normally would as it's in my home town, and jobs in development are scarce.

My background is in Full Stack Development & have a wealth of AWS experience, secure SaaS stacks etc.

My current role is a PHP Systems Developer, a step down from a senior role I was in, but a much bigger company, closer to home, with seemingly a lot more career progression.

My job role/descriptions states the following as desired:

PHP, T-SQL, MySQL, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Jquery, XML

I am also well versed in various JS frameworks, PHP Frameworks, JAVA, C# as well as other things such as:

Xamarin, Unity3D, Vue, React, Ionic, S3, Cognito, ECS, EBS, EC2, RDS, DynamoDB etc etc.

A couple of months in, I took on all of the external web sites/apps, which historically sit with our Marketing department.

This was all over the place, and I brought it into some sort of control. The previous marketing developer hadn't left and AWS access key, so our GitLabs instance was buggered... that's one example of many many many that I had to work out and piece together, above and beyond my job role.

Done with a smile.

Did a handover to the new Marketing Dev, who still avoid certain work, meaning it gets put onto me. I have had a many a conversation with my line manager about how this is above and beyond what I was hired for and he agrees.

For the last 9 months, I have been working on a JAVA application with ML on the back end, completely separate from what the colleagues in my team do daily (tickets, reports, BI, MI etc.) and in a multi-threaded languages doing much more complicated work.

This is a prototype, been in development for 2 years before I go my hands on it. I needed to redo the entire UI, as well as add in soo many new features it was untrue (in 2 years there was no proper requirements gathering).

I was tasked initially with optimising the original code which utilised a single model & controller :o then after the first discussion with the product owner, it was clear they wanted a lot more features adding in, and that no requirement gathering had every been done effectively.

Throughout the last 9 month, arbitrary deadlines have been set, and I have pulled out all the stops, often doing work in my own time without compensation to meet deadlines set by our director (who is under the C-Suite, CEO, CTO etc.)

During this time, it became apparent that they want to take this product to market, and make it as a SaaS solution, so, given my experience, I was excited for this, and have developed quite a robust but high level view of the infrastructure we need, the Lambda / serverless functions/services we would want to set up, how we would use an API gateway and Cognito with custom claims etc etc etc.

Tomorrow, I go to London to speak with a major cloud company (one of the big ones) to discuss potential approaches & ways to stream the data we require etc.

I love this type of work, however, it is 100% so far above my current job role, and the current level (junior/mid level PHP dev at best) of pay we are given is no where near suitable for what I am doing, and have been doing for all this time, proven, consistent work.

Every conversation I have had with my line manager he tells me how I'm his best employee and how he doesn't want to lose me, and how I am worth the pay rise, (carrot dangling maybe?).

Generally I do believe him, as I too have lived in the culture of this company and there is ALOT of technical debt. Especially so with our Director who has no technical background at all.

Appraisal/review time comes around, I put in a request for a pay rise, along with market rates, lots of details, rates sources from multiple places.

As well that, I also had a job offer, and I rejected it despite it being on a lot more money for the same role as my job description (I rejected due to certain things that didn't sit well with me during the interview).

I used this in my review, and stated I had already rejected it as this is where I want to be, but wanted to use this offer as part of my research for market rates for the role I am employed to do, not the one I am doing.

My pay rise, which was only a small one really (5k, we bring in millions) to bring me in line with what is more suitable for my skills in the job I was employed to do alone.

This was rejected due to a period of sickness, despite, having made up ALL that time without compensation as mentioned.

I'm now unsure what to do, as this was rejected by my director, after my line manager agreed it, before it got to the COO etc.

Even though he sits behind me, sees all the work I put in, creates the arbitrary deadlines that I do work without compensation for, because I was sick, I'm not allowed a pay rise (doctors notes etc supplied).

What would you do in this situation?

I like building large apps in flat php.

I get bullied for not using OOP / Frameworks.

I don't like this.

A couple of years back I wrote what would be a strong contender for the title: the ugliest mvc framework ever written in php.
Bright side: now I know the pitfalls of mvc very intimately.
Brighter side: never have to work on that code again.

Now I can use ready made mvc frameworks and still know where to look if shit goes south.

I really hate PHP frameworks.

I also often write my own frameworks but propriety. I have two decades experience doing without frameworks, writing frameworks and using frameworks.

Virtually every PHP framework I've ever used has causes more headaches than if I had simply written the code.

Let me give you an example. I want a tinyint in my database.

> Unknown column type "tinyint" requested.

Oh, doctrine doesn't support it and wont fix. Doctrine is a library that takes a perfectly good feature rich powerful enough database system and nerfs it to the capabilities of mysql 1.0.0 for portability and because the devs don't actually have the time to create a full ORM library. Sadly it's also the defacto for certain filthy disgusting frameworks whose name I shan't speak.

So I add my own type class. Annoying but what can you do.

I have to try to use it and to do so I have to register it in two places like this (pseudo)...

Types::add(Tinyint::class);
Doctrine::add(Tinyint::class);

Seems simply enough so I run it and see...

> Type tinyint already exists.

So I assume it's doing some magic loading it based on the directory and commend out the Type::add line to see.

> Type to be overwritten tinyint does not exist.

Are you fucking kidding me?

At this point I figure out it must be running twice. It's booting twice. Do I get a stack trace by default from a CLI command? Of course not because who would ever need that?

I take a quick look at parent::boot(). HttpKernel is the standard for Cli Commands?

I notice it has state, uses a protected booted property but I'm curious why it tries to boot so many times. I assume it's user error.

After some fiddling around I get a stack trace but only one boot. How is it possible?

It's not user error, the program flow of the framework is just sub par and it just calls boot all over the place.

I use the state variable and I have to do it in a weird way...

> $booted = $this->booted;parent::boot();if (!$booted) {doStuffOnceThatDependsOnParentBootage();}

A bit awkward but not life and death. I could probably just return but believe or not the parent is doing some crap if already booted. A common ugly practice but one that works is to usually call doSomething and have something only work around the state.

The thing is, doctrine does use TINYINT for bool and it gets all super confused now running commands like updates. It keeps trying to push changes when nothing changed. I'm building my own schema differential system for another project and it doesn't have these problems out of the box. It's not clever enough to handle ambiguous reverse mappings when single types are defined and it should be possible to match the right one or heck both are fine in this case. I'd expect ambiguity to be a problem with reverse engineer, not compare schema to an exact schema.

This is numpty country. Changing TINYINT UNSIGNED to TINYINT UNSIGNED. IT can't even compare two before and after strings.

There's a few other boots I could use but who cares. The internet seems to want to use that boot function. There's also init stages missing. Believe it or not there's a shutdown and reboot for the kernel. It might not be obvious but the Type::add line wants to go not in the boot method but in the top level scope along with the class definition. The top level scope is run only once.

I think people using OOP frameworks forget that there's a scope outside of the object in PHP. It's not ideal but does the trick given the functionality is confined to static only. The register command appears to have it's own check and noop or simply overwrite if the command is issued twice making things more confusing as it was working with register type before to merely alias a type to an existing type so that it could detect it from SQL when reverse engineering.

I start to wonder if I should just use columnDefinition.

It's this. Constantly on a daily basis using these pretentious stuck up frameworks and libraries.

It's not just the palava which in this case is relatively mild compared to some of the headaches that arise. It's that if you use a framework you expect basic things out of the box like oh I don't know support for the byte/char/tinyint/int8 type and a differential command that's able to compare two strings to see if they're different.

Some people might say you're using it wrong. There is such a thing as a learning curve and this one goes down, learning all the things it can't do. It's cripplesauce.

Hello everyone.
So, i am thinking about where to get lists of programming languages, frameworks and softwares that is fundamental. For example:
If i would like to develop a web site. I would use html, css, js & php. Maybe a site or frameworks for reference and 'roadmap'. I want to become a good programmer.

I started a new project and only use PHP, HTML, CSS and vanilla JS. No Frameworks. No React. No Vue.

The browser loads the page instantly, there is virtually no loading time and it just works.

I present to you a php framework with an "orm" that doesnt support table joins. Yes, you heard it right.

I just want to say few things to the developers community -
If you are a bad programmer, please spend your time at improving rather than writing frameworks, or making the stupid decision on using SUCH SHIT FRAMEWORK AT A CORPORATE COMPANY!

Also if you are not sure if you are a good programmer or not, chances are you aren't. That's just how it is.

Instructor: "and now here we can write this while loop in ph- oh wait. Let me just show you a cool trick. I am gonna close this php tag with ?> , open an html tag , then again open this php tag , add this line, close it, then again close html tag, then again open php, and then close it. pretty crazy huh? You see, now we can have our cool bootstrap displaying this output beautifully"

Me : FUCK YOU MAN :|
for reference, this was the final output :
============================
<?php
while($row = mysqli_fetch_assoc($result_successful)){
?>
<pre> <?php print_r($row); ?> </pre>
<?php
}
============================

I am a newbie in web dev who comes from a very nice java/kotlin world. is this a common site in web dev, mixing of all the html/php/some 1000 more laguages and frameworks to make 1 working product? coz it sucks.

Just started a job as a junior asp.net (coming from a somewhat long career as PHP fullstack) 1 week in and i'm doing nothing C# related, tweeking JS frameworks instead

I'm moving to PHP.

No, seriously. PHP devs were treated like “you're the tech guy, I don't care, make it work” for so long that PHP deps library has everything. If you need to do an unusual task like slowing download speed to 64 kbps, there is a lib for that. Caching is one lib away. Yes, libs themselves are subpar, but they do the job.
Performance? I never had any perf issues in my apps. DB is always the bottleneck, and I know databases.
Frameworks? I don't care about them.
Also, I'll always find PHP devs on the market.

Shut the fuck up with your elitist rust crap. PHP is a nuclear-resistant cockroach that will outlive you, your stupid language and everything you wrote in it. My PHP code will be running fine after every line of code you ever wrote in rust/python/java/scala/whatever fancy language you like is no longer in use.

Yes, I talked shit about PHP in the past. I was neither pragmatic nor mature. Many things changed since. For starters, I'm a CTO now. Hating PHP was easy and socially acceptable. Talk shit about PHP, get internet points — that's how it always worked.

No more. PHP is the king.

My old boss who somehow has gotten his small team of 4 PHP development contracts with Vodafone and Tesco etc. No QA, no tests, no frameworks allowed.

Sets random deadlines and used to suddenly drop demos on me for projects I'd just started and he had no idea of the state of them. Needless to say one project I was so rushed with no idea what I was actually making (for real) that I got sacked.

I'm really tired of all the hype that Python lately gets, mostly by begginers or at most mediors.

I get that a lot of people like it's syntax, but it has just a few use cases where it really shines (like CI scripting or ML). In other cases it always has a much better and much more mature alternative.

As a web developer I would always pick PHP over Python. It has really mature frameworks like Symfony or Laravel which are using PSR standards, well documented and implemented common patterns, option for strict typing and probably most importantly tons of libraries for pretty much everything. For example I could find implementation of payment gate for even the smallest banks in our country, thus saving several days of implementing it myself. And PHP will always humiliate Python in performance. Yet, pretty much every comparison article of those two will state Python as better option for webdev, mostly because it is evident that the person who wrote the article never even tried to do a proper atleast midsized project in PHP, but has ton of experience in Django.

And what exactly is my point? There are two in fact:

1) You should always use the right tools for the job.
2) Even if you could do something doesn't mean you should do it.

In the end of the day I shouldn't really be bothered by people hyping Python, but those fanatics really made me hate the language, even if I would normally consider looking into it.

Now I know Node.js and PHP as well.
Convince me why I should use Node.Js and other frameworks over PHP and related frameworks.

Great... I was hired to make a store system for this newborn startup... which isn't very tough, given I know PHP. Now they want me to build a social media for designers, just like Instagram, to encourage them to share their designs in an attempt to increase sales. And I'm the only Dev in the startup of ten.

Well, initially, I was not very pleased, but as I researched on how would I even do that, I realised it would really help my skill set, not to mention the points I'll be able to add to be resumé.

So far I've looked up how I'll have to use JSON/XML, coupled with PHP. I chose to learn Angular.JS for frontend dynamicity.

Any advice/help for this novice? Or any better frameworks I could use? (Don't say ruby-our web hosting site does not support it.)

Hello guys. A newbie to the app. I would like to ask - start a conversation with you about adopting new technologies, if should we follow or just wait? I am a PHP developer. I would set myself around mid to senior level. Since I graduated and I start working on a Marketing/Development Company, I have been develop a lot of websites, platforms with pure PHP, JavaScript, SQL. Later I start using framework like laravel. Now I am thinking about JS frameworks such as node, vue, react, angular and maybe later noSQL. The problem is that there are many new technologies that companies required when you apply. I want to learn new technologies but I don't know if that would be helpful than focus on LAMP and get better and better to that. Many orgs have implemented their own technologies and each company is getting mad to it. You see each company adapt these new technologies even if they don't want em or projects required it. So my question is: are we talking about dramatically speed and light use to server when we use new frameworks like these, previous mentione + etc? Or companies are just trying to look cool by mentioning many techologies while projects could never ask for em? (Nothing serious, I am just trying to make conversation and clear my thoughts by getting others opinion)

!rant
I built a webinterface a few months ago. it was based on the php framework laravel. but i want to change to nodejs in combination with mongodb.
do you know good nodejs mvc frameworks similar to laravel?

procrastinative coding is a bad habit of mine. I've been using php for 10+ years and just recently got into laravel. I have to say I love it but at times I wish I could have learned the entire framework before starting my project some time ago. as I am coding I learn new tricks with laravel on how to do things and have to waste time and go back and change existing code... or tell myself "I'll come back to this after the launch".
I'm just wondering how other people handle taking on new frameworks

The only thing that I think works great in Node.js ecosystem is Socket.io

Otherwise anything JavaScript related is too bad for me. So many frameworks releasing each month. First it was React then people said that vue is better... Now hearing Svelte is the best. This shit is going crazy.

Personally I prefer to keep back end in a different language such as PHP or Python. Separation of concerns was a thing some years ago now everything is JS.

Are there other alternatives to Socket.io in other languages which are easy to setup just like Socket.io? XMPP is there but I feel it is overly complicated to get started.

Custom php api for huge known national software. No frameworks. Not following mvc structure. No decent documentation. Im the new dev and like how the fuck should i catch up before they think im not productive

!rant but question to you experts:

Hey, guys. I'm currently trying to up my game in terms of web development. I already know js, html, php and css quite well (enough to become a tutor at my university) but I'm not shure which frameworks (serverside and clientside) are worth considering. Until now I wrote everything from scratch, which is not very sustainable (waaaay to much code to maintain)
Could you please tell me your softwarestacks, what library to use, which frameworks to learn (Vue/React/Angular/...)? Every opinion is very appreciated and won't go unheard. Thanks in advance.

btw: you guys are the nicest people I ever met online. Thank you for being so awesome.

Started porting one application written in php to:
Golang(and some libraries to make certain sht simpler like GORM and Gorilla amongst a couple of others, most shit is STD shit already built in)

Java Spring(I know it well, but wanted to try this particular app in it, lots of boilerplate although the coded is solid AF)

.NET Core API, which I separated in a series of modules for the domain interface, the persistence logic, the actual api etc, I really dig it. It has a basic React frontend in Typescript whereas the other 2 versions are using the standard Go html/template package and the Twig interface for Spring.

My favorite thus far is Golang. I find it extremely easy to extend, the language reads good enough for a retard like myself to make sense of it fairly easy, really easy to test and experiment with it, any idea I get for something to add(say users and stuff) took me less than 30 mins to figure out while reading the actual documentation, as in the base documentation or just the source code.

I know the language is retard proof, and I am highly enjoying this. Not to say that the other two are bad, not at all, been using C# and Java for years now, but I highly appreciate being able to concentrate on functionality rather than all the fucking architectural boilerplate needed to run basic shit in the other two frameworks. Thus far Golang has been a breath of fresh air the likes Clojure gives me, while not even being a profound or mind blowing language in terms of features(since other than the interface{} and goroutines i can't think of shit) and have not reached a scenario in which I am stuck or dying to have generics one bit for the overall business logic.

The app is growing like crazy in terms of code since the original php application was huge to begin with, but dear me this shit is as simple as it can get without being too technical. Might move it to production once all usability tests pass and force the rest of the staff to learn it. I have one lead dev that damn near refuses to touch anything other than php, and a very eager to try shit out content administrator that comes from a Java and C# background.

all I want to say is how much I love go haha

Got a bad question here. I've got my homepage (login + some archives with access permission) which I made in HTML + php (yeah I know). But I just hate how php looks. So I'd like to rewrite that whole little bastard now using some other language (not php obviously). What do you recommend? Which Lang's/frameworks are being used. I heard python and java spring were good but I wanted to hear the opinion of some real devs I guess. I'm rather a back end dude (c++) but I think it would be useful to learn some web programming too (not interested in fancy animations and shit, just a good ol' single colored site that displays the content)

If you just want to answer my question, skip to the bottom. For those who cares, some backstory:

So...I seemed to have finally caught a break; a friend of my dad owns an IT company and also makes websites...used to. It was becoming too much for him alone so he decided to discontinue, but that's where i come in. We talked a few days ago and it sounds like I'm finally going to have a decent dev related job--even if it's only mainly websites, at least I can work from anywhere once the ball starts rolling since I'll just get direct deposits. Meaning I'd be able to visit my gf in Florida and sustain myself over there while I look to build my own client base or even get a job offer, who knows?

For you guys and gals reading this, what's your favorite/preferred static site generators and css frameworks? I know that I'll be doing mostly static sites first, and i want to deliver quality work as quick as possible. I'm cool with learning a new language once it's not too obscure; i mainly do JS and I know a bit of Python, PHP, and just the basics of Go and Ruby

I wanna create the rating of PHP frameworks and name it “deterio-rating”

!rant

I just made my API in my laravel and I understand how it works! It may seem like not a lot, but I got from far.

Just came two years ago in this industry as I worked as a customer service agent for a hostingcompany. I entered a whole new area what I immediatly got into at the time. Mind I already was studying Biomedical labresearch at the same time and was the IT guy in the family. Well, think back then I was just googling and fixing shit most of the time.

I was 21 at the time and began to learn everything I could learn in my position and soon it was not enough and wanted to learn more by working parttime(study already asks a lot of time). I soon applied as Junior System Engineer within the same company without prior education and got the job! And I'm back feeling I entered a new area where you feel you can do so much by just learning how it works. Now I want to learn to develop in PHP so I may make another step further.

Not a rant, but I want to share my experience as labrat starting to someting programming(did some bio-informatics, which was really interesting but with less emphasis on programming but more on data analysis). Still got a gigantic of list I want to learn from languages and frameworks to orchestration systems.

A lot of this might be an assumption based on not enough research on both NestJS and TypeScript, so if something here is not well put or incorrect then please feel free to provide the necessary info to correct me since I care far more about getting dat booty than I do being right on the internet :D

Sooo, a year or so ago I got a hold on the Nest JS framework. A TypeScript based stack used to build microservices for node. Sounded good enough in terms of structure, it is based on the same format that Angular uses, so if you use Angular then the module system that the application has will make sense.

I attempted (last night) to play with the framework (which I normally don't since I am not that much of a big fan of frameworks and prefer a library based approach) and found a couple of things that weird me out about their selling points, mainly, how it deals with inversion of control.

My issue: This is dependency injection for people that don't really understand the concept of dependency injection. SOLID principles seem to be thrown out of the window completely due to how coupled with one another items are. Literally, you cannot change one dependency coming from one portion to the other(i.e a service into a controller) without changing all references to it, so if you were using a service specification for a particular database, and change the database, you would have to manually edit that very same service, or define another one....AND change the hardwire of the code from the providers section all the way into the controllers that use it....this was a short example, but you get the gist. This is more of a service locator type of deal than well....actual dependency injection. Oh, and the documentation uses classes rather than interfaces WHICH is where I started noticing that the whole intention of dependency injection was weird. Then I came to realize that TypeScript interfaces are meeheed out during transpilation.

Digging into the documentation I found about custom providers that could somehowemaybekinda work through. But in the end it requires far too much and items that well, they just don't feel as natural as if I was writing this in C# or Java, or PHP (actually where I use it the most)

I still think it is a framework worth learning, but I believe that this might be a bias of mine of deriving from the norm to which I was and have been used to doing the most.

For the past week I've been rewriting an application with just pure php, html, js and css (with a sprinkle of bootstrap), and I gotta say that in this new modern world of frameworks & CMSs, it feels great building a "problem solving" application with nothing but my bare hands!

I have read people talk about how “Laravel makes PHP fun”. I don't get it. I really hate frameworks. Yeah they may simplify tasks. But the way I see it, you now have a damn framework that you're never going to bother to understand. You most likely won't read the underlying code, you'll rely on others to release security updates.

Hey yeah it has its benefits, like peer reviewed, and matured code.

But I guess it's just not for me.

SAME GOES FOR WORDPRESS. It does freaking make your life easy, and it's easy money, but I guess it would just annoy me to not be bothered with the underlying code.

Anyway, Imma head on to make my own framework....

!rant
I got to work on this project written in PHP that is literally unsalvageable so I will need to redo it from scratch, it's an e-commerce/social network mix that allows you to resell your clothes and I will have to work with PHP-only server-side so I was looking for a JS framework that has all these cool features like Angular but does not require node.js and I stumbled upon React and Vue and I can't decide between them. I was wondering if anyone knows both of these frameworks and could help me decide which one to use. (I have almost no knowledge about these frameworks)

PS: The server-side will be PHP with MySQL because that's the only option that the client's hosting offers.

I have a PHP related question.

I noticed a few frameworks make use of this structure of code and it makes absolutely no sense to me. There would be a PHP file, and the contents of the file would be as follows:

<?php

return [
‘a’ => ‘b’
];

My only understanding is that this is an array/object but I have no idea how these values would even be accessed.

Like, there is no array variable, how can a php file simply return something into a void? There isn’t a function or variable to catch that array.

How does this even work?

Because of the amount of complaining I do at work concerning legacy php applications the HOD is trying to push for different technologies to use for backend services. We have met multiple times to discuss the proper way of handling the situation since there are a lot of very obvious things to consider regarding the push for a new tech stack. The typical names have come about, but my biggest issue will be training people for these stacks.

Testing environments with docker and so forth, push for CERTAIN applications to be more API centric and the use of better frontend frameworks that will remain standard for years to come(hard to bet on this one but I tend to orefer React) among other things are the topics of conversation.

Personally I would love to move the shop to something geared towards Golang, thing is, the lead dev is complaining about it saying that the training for a new language would just take time. After a couple of examples he is still not convinced.

I think its wrong of him to center himself on just PHP and JQUERY as the main development stack he uses and learning new things should be part of the job, I also have a case against the spaghetti code that results from just using vanilla php with no proper development practices(composer based systems, oop etc etc you get the gist)

In the end I am starting to think that it will become one of those "fuck off I am the boss" type of deal since I am going to be here after a long time and he has about 2 years before he medically retire.

I love how frameworks and languages become more object oriented.
PHP and Javascript for example have come a very long way in the last decennia orso.

The why is obvious: logic makes sense.

Seeing a lot of hate against PHP here. It used to be a shitty language with no decent frameworks, update yourselves please, it's getting embarrassing for you. WordPress, laravel, Zend. That's 60% of the web. We run this shit.

May's last week was very hectic. I had just finished my final exams and there were going to be semester project evaluations in that whole week.

@safiullah and me had decided to make a whole Social Network with all features in it, for the DB course project.
All other classmates were making small management systems like ticket booking and etc.
We thought that if we really wanted to learn DB concepts then we should come up with something different than a management panel.
Hence we did it. This was the first time we used a framework. Well, I had written that PHP framework while i was learning about how frameworks work and the way they are made. So it wasn't a big thing but it was something which could be used as a base for clean and organized code.

It took about a month of commits and pushes and it resulted in a very good social network. It had all the features and algorithms present in a starter social network.

For us students, we were happy to see what a fine job we had done. We learnt a lot and used new concepts.

When we went to the instructor, she asked us to sit down and show the project. @safiullah placed the laptop, and logged out from the social network so that he could show her a demo.
She exclaimed,"Why did you do it (Log out) ?"
He replied: "To show you how it works🤷🏻‍♂️"
She:"Get to the previous state and leave it"
Then she asked different questions like what was a post request in php and how it differed from get? what library for DB connection was used... etc.
We explained each and every step.

She saw the frontend design and said "You've just added text to the elements" as If we were showing her a theme demo with hard coded text accomplished by inspect element.

She did not take a look at any other page than the one we had shown her at start. She navigated to no other page and asked nothing about what total features were implemented and how they were done?

Then she said Thank You and we left.

After some days marks were uploaded in LMS and we were just two points above the average.

She took no look and gave us the least when our project was the best.
I'm 100 percent sure she thought that we were showing her a project copied from somewhere else. 🤣

8 years old, first computer. 12 tears old first laptop. Around the time of bebo, I started messing with Photoshop making skins, then I made a website to put these skins on, after that I became involved with the SMF message board software, offering support, creating mods and themes. Eventually started working with individuals and businesses designing and building there websites, went to college got a taste of Java & vB, continued onto a degree and now I can program in Java, vB, C#, C, Javascript/Coffeescript, Node, PHP, Python and Bash with experience with too many libraries and frameworks to count, at 24 years of age going into the last year of my degree. I never really realised I wanted to become a dev. I just kind of naturally progressed into it.

What are your thoughts about Symfony VS Laravel?
I prefer Laravel. It is much simpler than Symfony but most enterprises are using Symfony. However Laravel is keeping up also (gaining a lot of traction and users).

Laravel = Symfony on Steroids

I wonder why so many people prefer Laravel?

Who's a hardcore Symfony user here? I experienced using both but I prefer Laravel.

Right now I'm studying NodeJS, Express, Angular as it is more popular than Symfony. Also most requiremetns in job posting nowadays.

FUCK FLUTTER!!!

Who the hell wants to learn to program in dart, would rather learn php than learn an inutill, and complicated language that only works under Google frameworks. Also, a flutter app weighs twice as much as a app native and closes all the time. I hate Flutter and its community

#ReactNativeLover

Why does the Fat Free Frameworks (F3) $db->exec() method have its array count from 1 and not 0.

Instead of doing:
[$param1, $param2]

You have to do:
[ 1=> $param1, 2=> $param2]

WHO THE FUCK THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA?

This is something that PHP PDO gets right, AND I FUCKING HATE PDO!!!

Which PHP framework is best for REST APIs and Why ?

So I'm pretty new to PHP after coming off 5 years worth of Java. So far I've used nothing but standard, out-of-the-box code. Anyone got any recommendations for frameworks or nice tools I could look at? I'd especially like something that could make forms and database interactions easier (my software is a lot of data capturing and reporting)

Met Symfony first .. fell in love .. Then I met Laravel fell in love again ..! Now am confused with whom to propose .. :/

I can't believe this is happening... I'm coding something in PHP...

It's the only language the makes sense for this project really. I need something that can easily run Linux commands.. it needs a small footprint... and it needs to be something people are familiar with.

I feel sick thinking about it... just looking at frameworks was making me want to puke. Luckily I found one that was my style. MVC and it is TINY...

I guess my next issues is.. should this application be OS or should I make it proprietary to my Web hosting services?

Got this mail from a recruiter:

"I thought I would reach out to you as I have a client working that is looking for 3 Senior Developers with strong PHP experience and either Smyfony, Laraval or Drupal experience ..."

I have heard that Laraval and Smyfony are great frameworks.

When you see someone bragging about how he created his own framework because he hates frameworks like Symfony and Laravel but when your take a look in his code he echoes html from within the php files...

Listing my skills:
I have published react-native apps.
I can build an extensive backend/API thing with node.JS/a good framework.(worked on something for my countries national football league during an internship as main/only dev)
I have some experience with c# but havent used it since school.
I have no issue getting into new frameworks/languages, as long as its not PHP.

I have experience working in software teams.
I have experience running my own company(Online store selling airsoft supplies - i quit).

Im working towards getting familiar with Tensorflow 2.0.
I have a Cambridge English assessment certificate at grade C2.

I am currently working(for 0 pay for 50% of the shares) on developing a social media app that uses location tracking on a 20-200 meter scale.

I have ADHD and have been spoken on/warned due to its effects( i.e. forgetting to report progress, getting distracted, needing stimulation so i browse youtube(even have it playing in the bottom corner sometimes), poor communication.

Am i worth anything at all as a developer... im getting pretty depressed due to not having an income at this point... and I dont think anyone will hire me

What Frameworks should I learn in 2018?

PS: I currently do not use any (cos I have been learning basic syntaxes)

Should I learn Angular 2 or Vue 2?

Not asking which one is better, but which one suits my need better:

I want to move from PHP to nodejs frameworks; I know Vue cause it's famous in the Laravel community, but don't know about the node/js community. I heard Angular 2 is hard, but I'm changing my dev stack so might as invest some time in it. So which one should I pick?

Also, what's a good nodejs framework for starters (who aim to build production-ready apps) (also, not planning on doing mobile apps so no need for cross platform js frameworks).

Thanks in advance

Just need a bit of advice here.

Background: I'm good with backend web development. Won't say I'm really good, but yeah, I've done it quite a bit and built few sites locally.

At this point, I wanna know if I should continue learning and get really good with PHP (maybe get certifications). Or, start learning Python and try frameworks like Django or Flask. Also, this coming summer, I wanna do some kinda internship but before that I need to be good with something.

Some advice would help :D
Thanks and happy new year!

How bad of an idea is to delve into php in 2019? But since I have to, I would like few links on how web applications are made in php or it's frameworks such as laravel.

i've installed lamp and my php -v is 7.1.15. i created a form and when i request to a .php file, it says "php-cgi not found: Please ensure that configured PHP Interpreter built as CGI program (--enable-fastcgi was specified)".
but ive specified the php.ini file from etc/php/7.1/cli.
and in setting/languages & Frameworks/php/cli interpreter it says php version not installed & debuger not installed. SOS

This depends mainly on the programming language with which I want or have to develop a project.

I like to use Behat for PHP and other simple things. At the moment I only have clients who want to implement projects in PHP. God knows why.

For more complicated things I like to use yeoman, but I have to say that there are also a lot of horrible generators, so I follow the official instructions more often.

Otherwise, the usual procedure:
1) git init
2) Planning of features and functions (if not already specified by the client)
3) Select frameworks (mostly necessary)
4) Start programming
5) Commit often
6) Commit often
7) Commit often

Hire are a few tips to up productivity on development which has worked for me:

1) Use a system of at least 16gb ram when writing codes that requires compilation to run.

2) Test your code at most 3 times within an hour. This will combat the bad habit of practically checking changes on every new block you write.

3) Use internet modem in place of mobile hotspot and keep mobile data switched off. This will combat interruptions from your IM contacts and temptations to check your WA status update when working.

4) Implementation before optimisation... This is really important. It's tempting to rewrite a whole block even when other task are pending. If it works just leave it as is and move on to the next bull to kill, you can come back later to optimise.

5) Understand that no language is the best. Sometimes folks claim that PHP is faster than python. Okay I say but let's place a bet and I'll write a python code 10 times faster than your PHP on holiday. Focus more on your skill-set than the language else you'd find yourself switching frameworks more than necessary.

6) Check for existing code before writing an implementation from scratch... I bet you 50 bucks to your 10 someone already wrote that.

7) If it fails the first and then the second time... Don't try the third, check on StackOverflow for similar challenge.

8) When working with testers always ask for reproducible steps... Don't just start fixing bugs because sometimes their explanation looks like a bug when other times it's not and you can end up fixing what's never there.

9) If you're a tester always ask for explanations from the dev before calling a bug... It will save both your time and everybody's.

10) Don't be adamant to switching IDE... VSCode is much productive than Notepad++. Just give it a try an see for yourself.

My 10 cents.

What exactly is the essence of web frameworks introducing new syntax? Does it mean language can't be augmented without turning the syntax upside down? All js frameworks are guilty (think svelte is the exception). Php, eloquent accessors, laravel facades etc.

Then, in addition to learning their available methods, classes, folder structure and possibilities, etc, you have to grapple with silly syntaxes. Sad

Coz a question like this in SO will get me banned......
I know HTML, CSS, JS, React in frontend.
I know Java as backend including database connectivity and all.
Should i learn a more demanding backend language lile PHP?
Or should I further learn frontend technologies like Angular, D3.js, and other frameworks?

Vent-rant. Fuck Wordpress and PHP and overly limiting css frameworks in their greasy unstable fucking assholes. I find embedded and / or game-dev C++ waaaaay more fun and pleasant, and logical than this fucking pile of cuntfuckery. I think I'm gonna switch my job, hopefully there's some C/C++ companies in my area.

When you can't use anything else other than php with no libraries and no frameworks/external packages and you have to reinvent the wheel every. single. time.

stateofjs survey reminds me of all that's wrong with JavaScript: too many frameworks each of which has to reinvent the wheel and depend on too many node_modules child dependencies, most don't support TypeScript properly (ever tried to convert a node-express-mongoose tutorial to TS?), there is still no proper type support in JS core language, and browser features get added in form of overly complex APIs instead of handy DOM methods.

Instead the community gets excited about micro-improvements like optional chaining which has been possible in other languages for decades.

At least there is something like TypeScript, but I don't like its syntax either, it's overly verbose and adds too much "Java feeling" to JavaScript in my opinion.

Also there is too much JS in web development, as CSS and HTML seem to have missed adding enough native functionality that works reliable cross browser to build websites in a descriptive way without misunderstanding web dev for application engineering.

After all, I'd rather have frontend PHP than more JavaScript everywhere.

Anyway, at least the survey has the option to choose how satisfied or unsatisfied people are about certain aspects of JS. But I already suspect that most respondents will seem to be very happy and eager to learn the latest hype train frameworks or stick to their beloved React in the future.

What is the best resource for PHP as a backend, and not a SSR web apps.(no frameworks included just pure php)

I'm currently starting to develop a simple web app to access a database, just simple read, write, update stuff. Doesn't need to be fancy or anything, just work.
Now I asked a PHP dev I know for help and he told me I should use Symfony and Easy Admin Bundle. I'm not sure rn if it'd be worth it to get to know how to work with frameworks or not. What do you guys think?
Btw, I'm not planning on doing a lot more web development.

I’m very surprised at the lack of PHP micro frameworks with correct Namespace and Class support. I had to spend my weekend adding it, as well as making it so you can easily add a ORM library to it.

Sure I could use Laravel or Codeignitior, but I just needed something simple for rapid development of simple GUIs for desktop and server applications. I couldn’t justify copying over 6500 files for something I’m only going to use a quarter of its features. Now, I can just use composer to install the features I need.

What exactly is a full-stack developer/engineer? I'm confused.

So, I worked as a freelance webdev for a US company where I redesigned a pretty complicated website from scratch with PHP, mysql, JavaScript, CSS, HTML5. I only mention those because it will important later.
Basically, it's a lame mvc framework I wrote which heavily relied on AJAX and bootstrap modals.
I built from mysql <=> PHP -> UI
I Also built an android app that communicates with the php api

I worked for 4.6 years and they were kind enough to give me the designation "Full Stack Engineer" so I could put that on my resume. Alright, cool.

Then I go to this interview and one interviewer took offense. He told me that, there are 3 tiers of web dev; Database, Backend shit and UI. And I'm not a full-stack engineer. He then asked me if I worked with frameworks like laravel, symphony etc. [I did but not in this project]. I didn't know what to say. The other interviewer tried to help me, "Do you know what it means? Or have you ever worked with React.js or Angular?".

Didn't get the job and I'm so embarrassed and just feel like I'm a fraud. How could I not know what full-stack is? And why did I put it in my resume? Fuck!

Anyway can anyone tell me what "full- stack *" is?

>inb4
>incoherent
>bad engrish
Just fuck my shit up fam

when start to study....

Working on a project for myself and to put in my portfolio. Talking about it with a (non coding) co-worker and discussing where I am in the project as I've been really excited about my progress since I'm working from scratches with no frameworks for the back-end(the only side I've worked on so far). I was talking about the registration page and getting ideas as to what I should let users put on their profiles and she chimes in, "This would actually be better as a mobile app. That would be much easier to use." Well yeah, probably, but I'm a web developer, not a mobile app developer. Plus making it a web app means users will be able to utilize it through any medium rather than just their mobile phone. I can (probably) make it responsive enough that users don't mind it being a web page rather than an app.

I'm still learning, I know PHP, Python and a little JavaScript, not really enough to build a mobile app. Yeah I'd love to make this an app, but then I gotta support multiple products across several hundred different devices in multiple languages and I'm just not ready for that. Let's get the back end finished and we can go from there.

What the hell am I!? I wonder if you guys can help me...

I've been programming most of my life but I've never actually been a developer by title or job role. I thought maybe if I list what I do and have done someone here could help? I'm sure there are more of you in a similar boat.

- C# and VB dev for some quick DBMS projects to help me understand and mine databases and create a nice simple view for project teams to show findings from the data to help make certain decisions.
- Automating a lot of my colleagues work with Python and if very restricted then just VBA macros in Excel and MSP. This did also include creating tools to gather data during workshops and converting the data for input into other systems.
- Brought Linux to the office with most team members now moving over to Linux with the peace of mind to know that though they do need to try solve their own problems, I can help if need be.
- Had to learn AWS and then implement an autoscaling and load balanced data center installation of a few Atlassian toolsets.
- Creating the architecture diagrams documentation needed for things like the above point.
- Having said that, also have ended up setting up all the Jira/Confluence etc. servers we use and have implemented so far whether cloud (Azure/AWS) or on prem and set up scripts to automate where possible.
- Implemented an automated workflow view in SharePoint based on SP list data and though in an ASPX page, primarily built in JS.
- Building test systems in PHP/JS with Laravel and Angular to help manage integration between systems. Having quite a time right looking into how to build middleware to connect between SOAP and REST API's, the trouble caused more by the systems and their reliance on frameworks we're trying to cut out of the picture.
- Working on BI and MI and training a team to help on the report creation so that I can do the fun creative stuff and then set them to work on the detail :)

Actually it seems safe to say that it seems that though I've finally moved into a dev office (beforehand being the only developer around) I seem to be the one they go to when a strategic solution is needed ASAP and the normal processes can't be followed (fun for someone with a CompSci degree and a number of project management courses under the belt... though I honestly do enjoy the challenges)

But I always end up Jack of all but master of, well hopefully some at least. let's not even get started on the tech related hobbies from circuit design and IoT to Andoid / iOS and game dev and enjoying a bit of pen testing to make sure we're all safe at work and at home.

As much as I don't like boxes, I'm interested to know if there is in fact a box for me? By the way, the above is just a snapshot of my last two years minus the project management work...

Started out with C++ when I was 17. Being passionate about programming, loved to learn and explore more of the coding and programming world.
Reached out to the books for different languages such as Java, Python, PHP, etc.
Enjoyed learning anything that I came across.
My initial stages as a programmer, relied on books and video tutorials.
Now, relying upon documentation and other people's source code examples.
You know you can call yourself a developer, when you know how to use a particular language to develop applications that solve real world problems and perform tasks.
Now whenever I start out on a new language, I begin straight away with frameworks, hoping that I can grasp the syntax in parallel.

For regular daily stuff I use VS Code and it is incredible imo, for big backend PHP projects that come in from time to time I switch over to PhpStorm and for big React / Native projects or projects that contain multiple js frameworks I've been using WebStorm and I haven't been disappointed at all.

I got introduced to the latter two at a company I used to work for and I'm still using them!

Best way to approach updatable custom cms?
I currently have to work with an old cakePHP 1.3 cms tailored for a specific customers. The guy I'm doing development for wants to upgrade and move to another framework and create a new cms. Because this is such a niche specific cms we want to add ability to update the cms from the admin panel, over the air - there are 70-100+ websites at all times up and running and updating them manually is not viable. And probably have modules that would be separate but easily installable from the admin panel. Whats the best approach here? Any good examples already working in the wild? First thing that popped into my mind is opencart with the ocmod for custom mods, the problem being updates for it.

!rant

I prefer to write desktop applications or mobile applications (android). Only time I touched web-applications so far was for school.

Tbh, I hate it the way have to do it in school. vanilla js, no css framework, JSP backend (sometimes php 5.4) and that rounded up with eclipse indigo.
Let's not even talk about the fact that we never really talked about js or css in school, so that was even harder for me too begin with (still suck at both of them imo)

I can't express my gratitude for js and css frameworks. They make web development much more fun for me.

💖 laravel, vuejs, materializecss💖

Feel free to suggest me other things, I only completed 2 project with these

PHP was made to become the language propulsing main e-commerce frameworks... because of those dollars everywhere

Advice needed please.

I have an interview friday for a front end developer. Currently I am junior dev with just a full stack certiticate.

It’s the typical skillset requiremnts JS HTML and CSS with familiar with React, Angular and Vue.

As far as languages I really do not know JS but I know php. Taken a JS class in school found it to be fairly simple and that was my second language I learned.

How do I spend the next 48 hours? Learning JS? Spending time going over frameworks? Refreshing HTML/CSS?

I am much stronger back end than front end but I am hoping this will be more of a front end engineer job requiring the configuration of node packages and such.

I started learning Laravel yesterday. I had a couple of set up issues as well as some minor bugs which seem to be version specific. I am really liking it so far.

What's the general Software Engineering rule of thumb again for frontend templating code?

If I look at certain websites, I notice some code smells in PHP such as:
$.modal = <?php echo $(base)["username"] != 'me' ?' ': echo 'style="display=none"' ?>

or just in general places in the code where PHP gets used as a templating engine for gluing together pieces of HTML code based on conditionals spread out over the codebase and the database itself too. To make things worse, this carries over to JavaScript ajax functions. As a developer, this to me just seems like spaghetticode.

On the other hand, many popular frameworks properly do templating, such as EJS, containing templating in one place and not mixing it with logic too much but just having simple output like <%= %>.

I know I've seen frameworks like Angular 1 contain pieces of HTML into directives, but maybe that's something different, more 'OO'-simulating or cleaner.

[long confession/question]
So I was asked by a client to make an app similar to prisma(not exactly that but let's say a caricature app) and I knew I have to research a lot.

Now I have been loyal to PHP for over 5 years so I first tried with GD and imagick but the results were not very good, so I thought let's try opencv. I didn’t wanna make any compromises so I didn't go the bridging way, I worked on native python even though I am a newbie in it. I was fairly impressed with the cartoonizing results but others weren't. Soon I got to know that this would take much more than simple filter combinations or matrix manipulations.
I read about prisma and got to know it uses deep neural networks for the same.
Now, in the five years I have learnt almost all the things a run-of-the-mill "Full stack Web Developer" should know.
I have a fair knowledge of PHP, many of its frameworks, many js frameworks(obviously jquery), I have a very good understanding of CSS and its models, I have worked on some cool algos and found solutions to many problems but I haven't gotten to stage where I can implement neural networks/machine learning in my projects.
It just scares me.
___
A little back story: I have been the CTO of a small scale company for about 1.5 years now.
___
So all this got me to asking myself should I just step down from the post to a position where I can learn more skills. Managing takes a lot more time where I can't learn a lot. Sure I learnt some other important things but not as much tech knowledge as I would have in a more basic position.

I know not many of you must have read this far, but if you did what do you think I should do? Really depressed at the moment.

I have been 70% focused on front-end development technologies (HTML, CSS, JS,and related frameworks) and 30% on back-end web technologies (PHP, SQL mainly). I enjoy making websites and web apps that look good, but also understand the need for back-end functionality.

Does anyone have a strong opinion (good or bad) towards CakePHP? Trying to learn new php frameworks and that one has popped in a few job ads.

My team is currently using a confluent cloud kafka architecture via protobuf and wordpress as website.
We realized this is quite impractical when you want login functionality and such and would like to make a page from scratch now.
problem is we are all java backend developers with minor php knowledge, and php doesnt work well with protobuf or kafka.
how would you get such a website started. what language and frameworks are easy to get going?

To create my own php framework or just use some existing frameworks?

Existing frameworks has too many bootloaders -_-

For the last few years I've dealt with mostly PHP development however I now have some time to finally build something that I have been wanting to for a while. The trouble I'm having is what do I utilise for the build?! There are a 101 'perfect frameworks' out there and to be frank, totally lost on how to decide.

I'm using Strapi for the backend/API and i know I could build the application in PHP but that would require full rebuild to extend into a mobile app in the not so distant future. I originally opted for React as I'm familiar with that from a few project but honestly...god help anyone trying to navigate any article nowadays!

Php framework which provides nothing more than user management and separate admin and user login? Without shitload amount of external dependencies and packages? I want to give the mysql location and done, I don't want to learn some shitty js frontend you're forcing on me because you think it's fancy... Is there something with a kind of a pull-> works way? I develop javascript stuff, and I'm really tired of installing bunch of garbage what I don't even use. They're all pushing some extra js frameworks too, I need user management and that's it. Even Laravel started to be discusting..

Trying Laravel for a few hours...
God I hate it... everything is in dumb places, need to do 3000 things to get something to work that'd take me 5 things in CakePHP... and my folder structure is already cluttered af D:
How do people like this turd D:

Programming languages / frameworks you dominate? Me:
-Rails / RoR
-C/C++
-PHP / laravel
-Javascript / jQuery / Backbone etc..
- Python / django

Can we please stop using WordPress to create landing pages! I know that WP was an awesome solution back in the day and solved a lot of the hassle that came on building sites especially landing pages, but now JS frameworks/cms matured and are easy to use and implement! Or maybe I'm just a PHP hater so... death to PHP!

should I learn php frameworks or should I move to new technology like angularjs?

p.s: I've 2 years experience in php

Who else doesn't give a shit about OOP and MVC frameworks in php 😂 😂....

Coming from a PHP, JS and Flutter developer:

I want to start building more websites entirely with Js frameworks. The less the better. Needs to import json data, perform ajax requests etc.

Can't decide, do I learn Vue or Svelte?

#Suphle Rant 2: Michael's obduration

For the uninitiated, Suphle is a PHP framework I built. This is the 2nd installment in my rants on here about it.

Some backstory: A friend and I go back ~5 years. Let's call him Michael. He was CTO of the company we worked at. After his emigration, they seem to have taught him some new stack and he needed somewhere to practise it on. That stack was Spring Boot and Angular. He and his pals convinced product owner at our workplace to rebuild the project (after 2+ years of active development) from scratch using these new techs. One thing led to the other, and I left the place after some months.

Fast forward a year later, dude hits me up to broach an incoming gig he wants us to collab on. Asks where I'm at now, and I reply I took the time off to build Suphle. Told him it's done already and it contains features from Spring, Rust, Nest and Rails; basically, I fixed everything they claimed makes PHP nonviable for enterprise software, added features from those frameworks that would attract a neutral party. Dude didn't even give me audience. I only asked him to look at the repo's readme to see what it does. That's faster than reading the tests (since the docs are still in progress). He stopped responding.

He's only the second person who has contacted me for a gig since I left. Both former colleagues. Both think lowly of PHP, ended up losing my best shot at earning a nickel while away from employed labour. It definitely feels like shooting myself in the foot.

I should take up his offer, get some extra money to stay afloat until Suphle's release. But he's adamant I use Spring. Even though Laravel is the ghetto, I would grudgingly return to it than spend another part of my life fighting to get the most basic functionality up and running without a migraine in Spring. This is a framework without an official documentation. You either have to rely on baeldung or mushroom blogs. Then I have to put up with mongodb (or nosql, in short).

I want to build a project I'm confident and proud about delivering, one certified by automated tests for it, something with an architecture I've studied extensively before arriving at. Somewhere to apply all the research that was brainstormed before this iteration of Suphle was built.
I want autonomy, not to argue over things I'm sure about. He denied me this when we worked together. I may not mind swallowing them for the money, but a return to amateur mode in Spring is something I hope I never get to experience soon

So, I'm wondering: if his reaction reflects the general impression PHP has among developers globally, it means I've built a castle on a sinking ship. If someone who can vouch for me as a professional would prefer not to have anything to do with PHP despite my reassurance it'll be difficult to convince others within and beyond that there could be a more equipped alternative to their staple tool. Reminds me of the time the orchestra played to their deaths while the titanic sank

Does somebody has any recommendations to frameworks/engines, that are suitable for browser game development? Friend of mine asked me about that, and i basically don't know much about that area, since i'm only experienced in unity (regarding game dev specifically).
She already has tried a thing called playcanvas, pixijs aswell as the html5 export of unity. is there more software out there for that specific purpose?

i remember coding my first tiny browser game project in oldschool php and js with jquery, but that also was only a small project.

What were your experiences with those frameworks? Did you use other ones? What were the advantagee of those? How well did your projects perform on mobile?

I am a beginner in programming. Started to code some 9 months back. So far I have learnt some basic C, Python(from LPTHW), HTML, CSS, JavaScript(from Coursera). I want to advance my skill. One of my relatives who is a programmer too advices me to learn SQL now and then learn PHP. So according to you what should I do now. I also want to develop my Python skills to using its frameworks so that I can make some real stuffs with that.

Pls suggest me my next move and also tell me from where can I learn these things( free courses could be of more help to me). I want to quickly learn the most of these so that I can make a dynamic website and web apps in the near future.

Thanks in advance!

!IthinkNotRent
Trying to write two player checkers/chess game with PHP
Any ideas about frameworks (maybe js frameworks) that will make my life easier
(No Nodejs plzzz)
Thanks!