So, you start with a PHP website.

Nah, no hating on PHP here, this is not about language design or performance or strict type systems...

This is about architecture.

No backend web framework, just "plain PHP".

Well, I can deal with that. As long as there is some consistency, I wouldn't even mind maintaining a PHP4 site with Y2K-era HTML4 and zero Javascript.

That sounds like fucking paradise to me right now. 😍

But no, of course it was updated to PHP7, using Laravel, and a main.js file was created. GREAT.... right? Yes. Sure. Totally cool. Gotta stay with the times. But there's still remnants of that ancient framework-less website underneath. So we enter an era of Laravel + Blade templates, with a little sprinkle of raw imported PHP files here and there.

Fine. Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css. Whatever. I can still handle this. 🤨

But then the Frontend hipsters swoosh back their shawls, sip from their caramel lattes, and start whining: "We want React! We want SPA! No more BootstrapCSS, we're going to launch our own suite of SASS styles! IT'S BETTER".

OK, so we create REST endpoints, and the little monkeys who spend their time animating spinners to cover up all the XHR fuckups are satisfied. But they only care about the top most visited pages, so we ALSO need to keep our Blade templated HTML. We now have about 200 SPA/REST routes, and about 350 classic PHP/Blade pages.

So we enter the Era of Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css + hipster.sass + REST + React + SPA 😑

Now the Backend grizzlies wake from their hibernation, growling: We have nearly 25 million lines of PHP! Monoliths are evil! Did you know Netflix uses microservices? If we break everything into tiny chunks of code, all our problems will be solved! Let's use DDD! Let's use messaging pipelines! Let's use caching! Let's use big data! Let's use search indexes!... Good right? Sure. Whatever.

OK, so we enter the Era of Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css + hipster.sass + REST + React + SPA + Redis + RabbitMQ + Cassandra + Elastic 😫

Our monolith starts pooping out little microservices. Some polished pieces turn into pretty little gems... but the obese monolith keeps swelling as well, while simultaneously pooping out more and more little ugly turds at an ever faster rate.

Management rushes in: "Forget about frontend and microservices! We need a desktop app! We need mobile apps! I read in a magazine that the era of the web is over!"

OK, so we enter the Era of Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css + hipster.sass + REST + GraphQL + React + SPA + Redis + RabbitMQ + Google pub/sub + Neo4J + Cassandra + Elastic + UWP + Android + iOS 😠

"Do you have a monolith or microservices" -- "Yes"

"Which database do you use" -- "Yes"

"Which API standard do you follow" -- "Yes"

"Do you use a CI/building service?" -- "Yes, 3"

"Which Laravel version do you use?" -- "Nine" -- "What, Laravel 9, that isn't even out yet?" -- "No, nine different versions, depends on the services"

"Besides PHP, do you use any Python, Ruby, NodeJS, C#, Golang, or Java?" -- "Not OR, AND. So that's a yes. And bash. Oh and Perl. Oh... and a bit of LUA I think?"

2% of pages are still served by raw, framework-less PHP.

Guy: dot net dev (C#) on windows. (desktop + server)
Team(not his team, he just happened to sit next to us): php/frontend devs and Linux (server) people.

Team: starting a new project! We'll have to see what framework to use and what server :D
Guy: i know it's none of my business...... but I'd recommend dot net and windows server!
Me: respectfully, that hardly makes sense, you know our skillset/field... i understand that it works for you but it doesn't really for us :).
Next to that we'd rather not use windows for security reasons.

It's fine if that happens once.

When it happened for the 1748472823'th time, I had a real hard time controlling myself.

The windows/microsoft fanboy I've ranted about multiple times.

- wouldn't use anything except for windows. Even if required for a project (I would if really needed, have done that a few times already)
- refused to use any framework/language not written by Microsoft
- tried to get other projects to use windows/.net when it wasn't required and it was only linux/php guys (and that fit the projects perfectly)
- ONLY wanted to use Skype and whatsapp. Always bragged about how he had 10gb of Skype history.
- didn't want to use anything related to linus torvalds or open source because 'those are open source and have no business model so they're bad'

And then: he suggested the use of windows server right after one was hacked (windows vuln that wasn't patched yet) which caused the devops guys to want to install a new Linux server for it.
Even the windows sysadmin pointed to the door when he said that and gave him a huge 'GTFO' face cD

Yeah, fuck him.

At an internship we had to make something and appearantly I learned php quite wrong at study so they decided that I'd have to pick a framework to program with.

Fair enough, a little research and I found one.

Held a presentation about the progress and mentioned the framework I used and everyone seemed quite impressed.

After the project someone came to me and asked me to take another look at that framework.

It appeared to be veeery fucking old, hardly documented and quite shit actually.

"so why did you choose it again?"

😁

I don't discriminate fellow devs. i don't care if you write Java or PhP, I don't care what OS you use to code, I don't care if all your software are free or not, I don't care what framework you use, I don't care about all this. The important part is being a dev. But, those bastards using light theme can go fuck themselves. 🤣

I guess that is what you get for bringing up security issues on someones website.

Not like I could read, edit or delete customer or company data...

I mean what the shit... all I did was try to help and gives me THIS? I even offered to help... maybe he got angry cause I kind of threw it in his face that the whole fucking system is shit and that you can create admin accounts with ease. No it's not a framework or anything, just one big php file with GET parameters as distinction which function he should use. One fucking file where everything goes into.

I worked in the same building as another division in my organization, and they found out I had created a website for my group. They said, “We have this database that was never finished. Do you think you could fix it?”

I asked, “What was it developed in?”
He replied, “Well what do you know?”
I said, “LAMP stack: PHP, MySQL, etc.” [this was over a decade ago]

He excitedly exclaimed, “Yeah, that’s it! It’s that S-Q-L stuff.”

I’m a little nervous at this point but I was younger than 20 with no degree, entirely self-taught from a book, and figured I’d check it out - no actual job offer here yet or anything.

They logged me on to a Windows 2000 Server and I become aware it’s a web application written in VB / ASP.NET 2.0 with a SQL Server backend. But most of the fixes they wanted were aesthetic (spelling errors in aspx pages, etc.) so I proceeded to fix those. They hired me on the spot and asked when I could start. I was a wizard to them and most of what they needed was quite simple (at first). I kept my mouth shut and immediately went to a bookstore after work that day and bought an ASP.NET book.

I worked there several years and ended up rewriting that app in C# and upgrading the server and ASP.NET framework, etc. It stored passwords in plaintext when I started and much more horrific stuff. It was in much better shape when I left.

That job was pivotal in my career and set the stage for me to be where I am today. I got the job because I used the word “SQL” in a sentence.

Laravel is the worst framework ever.

Everything has to be made convenient and easy. That sounds amazing, because developers want to save time, worry less about boilerplate code, right? No more constructors, no more dependency injection, fuck all the tedious OOP shit... RIGHT?

It does one thing well: Make PHP syntax uniform and concise through easily integrated libraries such as Collection and Carbon. But those are actually not really part of the framework... just commonly integrated and associated with Laravel.

The framework itself is completely derailed: You can define code in a callback in the routes file. You can define a controller in the routes file. You can define middleware as a parameter to the route, as a fluent method to the route, you can stack them up in a service provider. Validators can be made in controllers, Request objects, service providers, etc. You can send mail inline, through Mailable objects, through Notification objects, etc.

Everything is macroable, injectable, and definable in a million different places. Ultimate freedom!

Guess what happens when you give 50 developers of various seniority a swiss army knife?

One hammers in a screw with a nail file, the other clips the head from the screw using scissors, and you end up with an unworkable mess and blunt tools.

And don't get me started about Eloquent, the Active Record ORM. It's cute for the simple blog/article/author/comment queries, but starts choking when you want more selective and performant queries or more complex aggregates, and provides such an opaque apple-esque interface which lets people think everything is OK, when in reality it's forcing the SQL server to slowly commit suicide.

"Fuck JavaScript, its such a shitty language" seems to be quite a common rant today. It seems as if JS is actually getting more hate than PHP, which is certainly odd, considering the stereotype.

So, as someone who has spent a lot of time in JS and a lot of time elsewhere, here are my views. Please, discuss your opinions with me as well. I am genuinely interested in an intelligent conversation about this topic.

So here's my background: learned HTML/CSS/JS in that order when I was 12 because I liked computers. I was pretty shitty at JS until U was at least 15, but you get the point, Ive had it sploshing about in my brain for a while.

Now, JS certainly has its quirks, no doubt, but theres nothing about the language itself that I would say makes it shitty. Its a very easy leanguage to use, but isn't overdeveloped like VB.net (Or, as I like to call it, TheresAFunctionForThat)

Most of the hate is centered around JS being used for a very broad range of systems. I doubt JS would be in the rant feed so often if it were to stay in its native ecosystem of web browsers. JS can be used in server backend, web frontent, desktop and mobile applications, and even in some system services (Although this isn't very popular as of yet). People seem to be terrified that one very easy to learn language can go so far. And, oh god, its interpreted... How can a system app run off an interpreted language? That's absurd.

My opinion on JSEverything is that it's progress. Thats what we're all about, right? The technologies already in place are unthreatened by JS, it isn't a gamechanger. The only thing JS integration is doing is making tedius and simple tasks easier. Big companies with large systems aren't going to jump ship and migrate to JS. A startup, however, could save a fucking ton of development time by using a JS framework, however. I want to live in a world where startups can become the next Google, because technology will stagnate when youre trying to protect your fortune, (Look at Apple for fucks sake) but innovation is born of small people with big ideas.

I have a feeling the hate for JS is coming from fear of abandoning what you're already doing. You don't have to do that. JS is only another option (And a very good one, which is why it's becoming so popular).

As for my personal opinion from my experiences... I've left this part til the end on purpose. I love programming and learning and creating, so I've never hated a lamguage, really. It all depends on what I want to do. In the times i've played arpund with JS, I've loved it. Very very easy. The idea of having it on both ends of web development makes a lot of sense too, no conversion, just direct communication. I would imagine this really helps with speed, as well. I wouldn't use it in a complicated system, though. Small things, medium size projects: perfect. Running a bank? No.

So what do you think about this JSUniverse?

Never gonna happen:

* Port our API to graphql. Or even make it just vaguely rest-compliant. Or even just vaguely consistent.
* Migrate from mysql to postgres. Or any sane database.
* Switch codebase from PHP to... well, anything else.
* Teach coworkers to not commit passwords, API keys, etc.
* Teach coworkers to write serious commit messages instead of emoji spam
* Get a silent work environment.
* Get my office to serve better snacks than fermented quinoa spinach bars and raw goat milk kale smoothies
* Find an open source IDE with good framework magic support. Jetbrains, I'll give you my left testicle if you join the light side of the force.
* Buy 2x3 equally sized displays. I'm using 6, but they're various sizes/resolutions.
* Master Rust.
* Finish building my house. I completely replaced the roof, but still have to dig out a cellar (to hide my dead coworkers).
* Repair/replace the foundation of my house (I think Rust is easier)
* Get slim and muscular.

Realistically:

* Get a comfortable salary increase, focus more on platform infrastructure, data design, coaching
* Get fat(ter). Eating, sitting, gaming, coding and sleeping are my hobbies after all.
* Save up for the inevitable mental breakdown-induced retirement.

Saw a guy asking on LinkedIn for PHP frameworks. He was currently using notepad++ as framework.

Say what... 🤓

Client: Only an question: do you have a service to optimize my php skripts ?
Me: What kind of script are you referring and what kind of framework?
Client: Yes

I don't understand why people tend to shit on certain languages.
I`ve seen my fair share of shit software written in a plethora of languages, and the problem was usually that the devs used the language/framework completely wrong.
Languages and frameworks are designed to solve problems, if you don`t use them in the correct way then you are to blame.

It is like sticking your dick in the exhaust pipe of a Volvo, and then writing a Medium post complaining about your charred dick and how all Volvo's suck. Yeah I'm talking about you PHP haters, all of you that shit on Java on a daily basis and you morons saying "python is slow"

Don't get me wrong, I send PHP shitposts/memes all day to my friends working with it. But if my code doesn't work, it is my fault and I own up to it.

With that said, I will blow my brains out before writing a single line more of PHP

Rant over

Hello there, just couple of words about PHP. I've been develop on PHP more than 10 years, I've seen it all 3,4,5,{6},7. Yes PHP was not good in terms of engineering and patterns, but it was simple, it was the most simple language for web to start those days. It was simple as you put code into file, upload it via FTP and it works. No java servlets, no unix consoles, no nothing, just shared hosting account was enough to host site, or even application with database. As database everybody used to have mysql, again because its simple to start and easy to maintain. So PHP+MySQL became industry standard on Web during 00-2012, and continues in some way.
You can write HTML and logic inside single file, within php code, even more single file may content few pages, or even kind of framework. That simplicity and agility sticks everybody who wants to develop sites with PHP.
This is pretty much about why it is so popular.

Each good or wannabe PHP developer in an early days write its own framework or library (like in javascript this days because of nodejs)

Imagine that PHP has hadn't have package manager, developers used to have host packages on their own sites, then various packages catalog sites created, and then finally composer. A gazillions of php code had spread over internet, without any kind of dependency control. To include libraries to your projects you have to just write include, or require. Some developers do it better than others.

So what we have ? A lots of code, no repositories, zip archives with libraries, no dependency control.
Project that uses that kind of code are still alive even today, they are solid hose of cards, and unmaintainable of course.

And main question that I'm trying to answer is Why PHP is not good ?
- First is amount of legacy code which people copy and pasted into their project, spread it even more like a virus.
- Lack of industry standards at the beginning lead to a lots of bad practices among developers. PHP code usually smells.
open source php projects in early days was developed in same conditions so even in phpbb, phpnuke, wordpress, drupal used to have a lot of bad practices in their codebase. So php developers usually not study by another library, instead they write their own frameworks/libraries.
- "It works", - there are no strong business demands, on web development, again because lack of standards, and concerns.
This three things are basically same, they linked to each other and summarize of answer of why PHP have strong smells and everybody yelling against it.

Whats is with PHP nowadays ? Of course PHP today is more influenced by good practice of webdev. Composer, Zend, Laravel, Yii, Symphony and language it self became more adult so to say, but developers...

People who never tried anything except PHP are usually weaker in programming and ecosystem knowledge than people who tried something else, python, perl, ruby, c for instance.

Summary

PHP as any other programming language is a tool. Each tool has its own task. Consider this and your task requirements and PHP can be just good enough solution.
"PHP is shit" - usually you heard that from people who never write strong applications on PHP and haven't used any good tools like Symphony or Laravel.
Cheap developers, - the bigger community, the more chance to hire cheap developers, and more chance to get bad code. That can be applied on any other language.
PHP has professionals developers, usually they have not only php on scope.

That's all folks, this is very brief, I am not covering php usage early days in details, but this is good enough to understand the point.

Enjoy.

Hot take: PHP is pretty good nowadays.

I'm a Laravel dev right now and things just get done so quickly. Every language has its problems but the meme of PHP hate seems to be made more out of ignorance these days. You could find just as many problems with any other language.

For those that say I'm biased because I work through the framework more than the language, I'd ask don't you do the same? ASP.NET, Java EE, the millions of JS frameworks, all these also make your life easier within their languages.

In the end, work with what makes you happy and productive and be done with it.

Still trying to get good.

The requirements are forever shifting, and so do the applied paradigms.

I think the first layer is learning about each paradigm.

You learn 5-10 languages/technologies, get a feeling for procedural/functional/OOP programming. You mess around with some electronics engineering, write a bit of assembly. You write an ugly GTK program, an Android todo app, check how OpenGL works. You learn about relational models, about graph databases, time series storage and key value caches. You learn about networking and protocols. You void the warranty of all the devices in your house at some point. You develop preferences for languages and systems. For certain periods of time, you even become an insufferable fanboy who claims that all databases should be replaced by MongoDB, or all applications should be written in C# -- no exceptions in your mind are possible, because you found the Perfect Thing. Temporarily.

Eventually, you get to the second layer: Instead of being a champion for a single cause, you start to see patterns of applicability.

You might have grown to prefer serverless microservice architectures driven by pub/sub event busses, but realize that some MVC framework is probably more suitable for a 5-employee company. You realize that development is not just about picking the best language and best architecture -- It's about pros and cons for every situation. You start to value consistency over hard rules. You realize that even respected books about computer science can sometimes contain lies -- or represent solutions which are only applicable to "spherical cows in a vacuum".

Then you get to the third layer: Which is about orchestrating migrations between paradigms without creating a bigger mess.

Your company started with a tiny MVC webshop written in PHP. There are now 300 employees and a few million lines of code, the framework more often gets in the way than it helps, the database is terribly strained. Big rewrite? Gradual refactor? Introduce new languages within the company or stick with what people know? Educate people about paradigms which might be more suitable, but which will feel unfamiliar? What leads to a better product, someone who is experienced with PHP, or someone just learning to use Typescript?

All that theoretical knowledge about superior paradigms won't help you now -- No clean slates! You have to build a skyscraper city to replace a swamp village while keeping the economy running, together with builders who have no clue what concrete even looks like. You might think "I'll throw my superior engineering against this, no harm done if it doesn't stick", but 9 out of 10 times that will just end in a mix of concrete rubble, corpses and mud.

I think I'm somewhere between 2 and 3.

I think I have most of the important knowledge about a wide array of languages, technologies and architectures.

I think I know how to come to a conclusion about what to use in which scenario -- most of the time.

But dealing with a giant legacy mess, transforming things into something better, without creating an ugly amalgamation of old and new systems blended together into an even bigger abomination? Nah, I don't think I'm fully there yet.

why i like c#?
1- easiest way to build a program with good GUI. just put some XAML code and it's done.
2- I love syntax of c#. it has types. god I hate php XD
3- C# is also fast and strong.
4- don't forget the .net framework that has almost every thing I need.
3- A god like IDE, the Visual Studio.

I honestly don't understand why some developers like to shit on other's preferences.

Don't like PHP? Fine, but don't give shit to somebody else for liking it or coding in it.

Not a fan of Javascript? That's cool, but do realize that there are people who enjoy coding with it and don't appreciate you talking shit about their preferences.

Don't like a certain framework? That's okay, but again, there are people who code with it so don't tell them that they shouldn't.

From my last job interview (which I got hired btw)

Lead developer: "so we see quite a lot of frameworks that you listed for php, Laravel,cakephp, codeigniter, we really like the idea of them but have not had the opportunity to use them since as you might know by know our pages run over basic and small scripts, you also listed some cool front end frameworks, react looks amazing and I do have somr experience. Tell me, if given the choice, which framework would you use for php?"

Me: Really depends on the project, but the ones that you have described previously seem that they would not really benefit from them, we should not use them if they are overkill or will not expand to anything else on the future"

Him: "But given the choice?"

Me: my own framework, completed it a couple of days ago, it has its own routing system and everything made by yours truly, used it before on some projects in which the developers work with it with no need to ask me about stuff, the documentation is sound and the code rather simple. Php is and can really be all you need depending on what we are talking about."

Him: **stands up, moves closer to me and fist bumps**
"All right now moving on, i was wondering abouy redux, what are the benefits of..."

Walked out of there like a boss, it got interesting when we started talking about Lisp, apparently they are interested in putting some Clojure to test in small things since they want to learn new things and apply them. Yup, this gon b good!!

Me a year ago:
// Pieces together a deadbeat crappy php-script
"Man... PHP is shit"

Me now:
// Gets paid to create controllers for php framework applications
"Man... PHP is THE shit!"

Learning laravel. Damn this thing is cool 😃

You study PHP, OO, Design Patterns, TDD, Zend Framework, Laravel, AngularJS...

Then you find a job, it's Wordpress...

Oh man. Mine are the REASON why people dislike PHP.

Biggest Concern: Intranet application for 3 staff members that allows them to set the admin data for an application that our userbase utilizes. Everything was fucking horrible, 300+ php files of spaghetti that did not escape user input, did not handle proper redirects, bad algo big O shit and then some. My pain point? I was testing some functionality when upon clicking 3 random check boxes you would get an error message that reads something like this "hi <SENSITIVE USERNAME DATA> you are attempting to use <SERVER IP ADDRESS> using <PASSWORD> but something went wrong! Call <OLD DEVELOPER's PHONE NUMBER> to provide him this <ERROR CODE>"

I panicked, closed that shit and rewrote it in an afternoon, that fucking retard had a tendency to use over 400 files of php for the simplest of fucking things.

Another one, that still baffles me and the other dev (an employee that has been there since the dawn of time) we have this massive application that we just can't rewrite due to time constraints. there is one file with (shit you not) a php include function that when you reach the file it is including it is just......a php closing tag. Removing it breaks down the application. This one is over 6000 files (I know) and we cannot understand what in the love of Lerdorf and baby Torvalds is happening.

From a previous job we had this massive in-house Javascript "framework" for ajax shit that for whatever reason unknown to me had a bunch of function and object names prefixed with "hotDog<rest of the function name>", this was used by two applications. One still in classic ASP and the other in php version 4.something

Legacy apps written in Apache Velocity, which in itself is not that bad, but I, even as a PHP developer, do not EVER mix views with logic. I like my shit separated AF thank you very much.

A large mobile application that interfaced with fucking everything via webviews. Shit was absolutley fucking disgusting, and I felt we were cheating our users.

A rails app with 1000 controller methods.

An express app with 1000 router methods with callbacks instead of async await even though async await was already a thing.

ultraFuckingLarge Delphi project with really no consideration for best practices. I, to this day enjoy Object Pascal, but the way in which people do delphi can scare me.

ASP.NET Application in wich there seemed to be a large portion of bolted in self made ioc framework from the lead dev, absolute shitfest, homie refused to use an actual ioc framework for it, they did pay the price after I left.

My own projects when I have to maintain them.

The company I interned at last summer decided to adopt a JS framework a little over a year ago. The managers went with the old Angular 1.x because they didn't want a JS build process. Each page has ~100 script tags on it, and these are manually included in various files (no automated way to include dependencies). None of the CSS/JS files are minified, either.

They really should have chose Angular 2+, or an entirely different framework (React, VueJS). They're also just now upgrading the codebase from PHP 5.6 to PHP 7.2 (5.6 support ended a long time ago, and security support ends this month).

I love the company itself but these practices are poor.

I may be working there full time eventually. I hope to eventually help with the inevitable transition to a newer framework once Angular 1.x is dead since I am an avid user of newer JS technologies. Any tips on convincing manager(s) towards newer technology? (Or at least convincing them to combine+minify these files in production to reduce # of requests and bandwidth.)

Also this company's product has millions of active users.

When this year started I didn't have much knowledge of server side programming as web developer, only thing I knew was html/css. But this year I got started with:

- PHP
- Framework Phalcon (PHP)
- Javascript (jQuery, NodeJS, react)
- SASS (I can't without it anymore)
- Virtual Hosts (local development)
- Command Line stuff either in macOs and linux ubuntu

This is a huge deal for me because I always got laughed at I only wrote CSS and couldn't write anything else.

So knowledge-wise it was the most productive year ever.

Also, devRant helps me get through the day lately. Thank you for being a part of it!

Me (front dev): We should use nodejs for this project...
CTO (back): Nah... Fu*k Node! Php ftw
Now: we have a php framework with a nodejs server for the front end

We were in a college group. Five people. Making project in PHP. Some forced us to use cakePHP framework than left. One guy decided to not participate and decited to do it next year. One guy didn't know PHP at all. The two of us have to do all the work for five people.

On the presentation day we have ten minutes to do it. Guy without PHP knowledge forget password for our app, make three wrong guesses and locked us out of our app for five minutes.

Had my pure PHP web app rejected on a market platform because I didn't use a framework..
BITCH IT WORKS PERFECTLY WITHOUT A FUCKING FRAMEWORK, IF YOU WOULD HAVE TESTED IT YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN THAT!

I wrote a prototype for a program to do some basic data cleaning tasks in Go. The idea is to just distribute the files with the executable on our shared network to our team (since it is small enough, no github bullshit needed for this) and they can go from there.

Felt experimental, so I decided to try out F# since I have always been interested with it and for some reason Microsoft adopted it into their core net framework.

I shit you not, from 185 lines of Go code, separated into proper modules etc not to mention the additional packages I downloaded (simple things for CSV reading bla bla)

To fucking 30 lines of F# that could probably be condensed more if I knew how to do PROPER functional programming. The actual code is very much procedural with very basic functional composition, so it could probably be even less, just more "dense"

I am amazed really. I do not like that namespace pollution happens all over F# since importing System.IO gives you a bunch of shit that you wouldn't know where it is coming from unless you fuck enough with Ionide and the docs. But man.....

No need for dotnet run to test this bitch, just highlight it on the IDE, alt enter and WHAM you have the repl in front of you, incremental quasi like Lisp changes on the code can be REPL changed this way, plethora of .NET BCL wonders in it, and a single point of documentation as long as you stay in standard .net

I am amazed and in love, plus finding what I wanted to do was a fucking cakewalk.

Downside: I work in a place in which Python is seen as magic and PHP, VB.NEt and C# is the end all be all of languages. If me goes away or dies there will be no one else in this side of the state to fuck with F#

This language needs to be studied more. Shit can be so compact, but I do feel that one needs to really know enough of functional programming to be good at it. It is really not a pure language like Haskell (then again, haskell is the only "mainstream" pure functional language ain't it not?) but still, shit is really nice and I really dig what Microhard is doing in terms of the .net framework.

Will provide later findings. My entire team is on the Microsoft space, we do have Linux servers, but porting the code to generate the necessary executables for those servers if needed should be a walk in the park. I am just really intrigued by how many lines of code I was able to cut down from the Go application.

Please note that this could also mean that I am a shit Golang dev, but the cut down of nil err checkings do come somewhere.

I used to work in a small agency that did websites and Phonegap apps, and the senior developer was awful.

He had over a decade of experience, but it was the same year of experience over and over again. His PHP was full of bad practices:

- He'd never used an MVC framework at all, and was resistant to the idea, claiming he was too busy. Instead he did everything as PHP pages
- He didn't know how to use includes, and would instead duplicate the database connection settings. In EVERY SINGLE FILE.
- He routinely stored passwords in plain text until I pretty much forced him to use the new PHP password hashing API
- He sent login details as query strings in a GET request
- He couldn't use version control, and he couldn't deploy applications using anything other than FTP

Got an offer to work at a game development company. Office looked awesome (decked out in pinball machines and a huge marble track), located overlooking Schreveningen beach, young energetic team.
Then I saw the code. Oh God the code. And they wanted me to become system architect.
Hybrid PHP 4/5 OOP/procedural code custom framework running on a spaghetti database creaking by on the skin of its teeth... all backing Flash Facebook games.

Nope.

I fucking hate that PHPStorm is the only valid option for serious PHP framework development.

It's the opposite of free in every imaginable way: Expensive subscription license, hard to fully customize, closed source.

But there's just nothing even approaching the intelligence of intellisense. There are plugins for Vim, Atom, Sublime and VSCode which try to emulate it, but they are so fucking basic and dumb.

😠

Sooo I've been working on an ancient php 5.6 project that did not have any documentation and was a homemade "framework" created 7 years ago. The original creator is long gone and no one else knows a lot about this project.

When I first looked into it I almost immediately noticed the security flaws...

Old outdated libraries
a "development" feature to easily turn dev mode on/off
BY A GET PARAMETER!

it spits out full sql queries and php warnings -.-

Oh and did I mention that the site is a webshop.... and has a backdoor password?
AND THAT THE CUSTOMER REQUESTED THAT?

Absolutely loving the Slim 3 PHP framework. It's extremely simple, fast, and easily extensible. And nice use of dependency container.

Well, for starters there was a cron to restart the webserver every morning.

The product was 10+ years old and written in PHP 5.3 at the time.

Another cron was running every 15 minutes, to "correct" data in the DB. Just regular data, not from an import or something.
Gotta have one of those self-healing systems I guess.

Yet another cron (there where lots) did run everyday from 02:00 to 4ish to generate the newest xlsx report. Almost took out the entire thing every time. MySQL 100%. CPU? Yes. RAM? You bet.

Lucky I wasn't too much involved at the time. But man, that thing was the definition of legacy.

Fun fact: every request was performed twice! First request gave the already logged-in client an unique access-token. Second request then processed the request with the (just issued) access-token; which was then discarded. Security I guess.

I don't know why it was build this way. It just was. I didn't ask. I didn't wanted to know. Some things are better left undisturbed. Just don't anger the machine. I became superstitious for a while. I think, in the end, it help a bit: It feels like communicating with an alien monster but all you have is a trumpet and chewing gum. Gentle does it.

Oh and "Sencha Extjs 3" almost gave me PTSD lol (it's an ancient JS framework). Followed by SOAPs WSDL cache. And a million other things.

In the Ruhr area (Germany) we have some very old, very strange words with strange meanings. One of those words is ‚Prutscher‘.
A Prutscher refers to a person who does things but never gets a good result, due to lack of knowledge or simple carelessness. Most of the time, Prutschers are people who are interested in certain subjects and often work in the related jobs, but who lack the motivation to properly train themselves, learn what there is to learn and to always keep up with their technologies .
Here are a few examples I've stumbled upon so far in my career:

- Developers in their 60's who read a book about PHP 25 years ago and decided to become a software developer. Since then haven't read anything about it. Who then now build huge spaghetti monoliths for large companies, in which they prefix every function, every variable and constant with their initials and, of course, use Hungarian notation.

- People who read half a fucking tutorial about <insert any fancy js framework here> and start blogging/tweeting about it

- Senior web developers who need to be told what the fuck CORS is and who can't even recognize CORS related errors in their browser console.

- People who have done nothing else for 18 years than building websites for companies on Wordpress 1.x and writing few lines of PHP and Javascript from time to time. Those who are now applying as a frontend dev due to the difficult economic situation and are surprised that they are not accepted due to a lack of experience.

- Developers who are the only ones working on Windows in the team and ask their Linux colleagues for help when Windows starts bitchin.

- People who have been coding for 30 years, have worked with ~42 languages ​​and don't know the difference between compiled and interpreted languages ​​in the job interview.

- Chief developers at a large newsletter-publisher who think it's a good idea to build your own CMS (due to a lack of good existing ones, of course).

- Developers who have been writing PHP applications for multinational corporations for 25 years and cannot explain how PHP is executed. They don't even know what the fucking OPcache is, let alone fpm. FML

- People who call themselves professional developers but never ever heard of DRY, KISS, boy-scout rule, 12-Factor App, SOLID, Clean Code, Design Patterns, ...

- Senior developers wondering why the bash script won't run on their fucking Windows machine.

- Developers who consider Typescript to be a hindrance and see no value in it.

- Developers using ftp for deployments in 2022

- Senior Javascript Developer applying for a job and for whom Integer is a primitive data type in JS.

- Developers who prefer to code without frameworks and libraries because they are only an unnecessary burden/overhead and you can quickly code everything up yourself.

- Developers who think configuring their server(s) manually is a good idea.

You fucking Prutscher. What you have already cost me in terms of work and nerves. I can't even put it into words how deeply I despise you. I have more respect for the chewing gum that has been stuck in my damn trash can for the past 3 years than I do for you guys. You are the disgrace of our profession. I will haunt you in your dreams and prefix every fucking synapse of your brain with MY initials.

As a well-known german band once sang in a very fitting song: I wouldn't even piss on you if you were on fire.

If you recognized yourself in one of the examples here: FUCK YOU!

I like PHP.

It's not as bad as its reputation. Just because it's easy to learn, does not mean it's bad. In fact, with a framework like Laravel or Zend it's not so simple and keeps the whole spaghetti code developers away, which led to the bad reputation.

GoodGuy BroCow
Senoir problem
2years back

Senoir dev was assigned to make a webapp for billing

Dude uses dreamviewer and writes code like a bitch

Phpmysqljqueryhtml whole thing mixed very badly and undocumented

His function name format fun_1()

a simple update cost him a day,

Told him to use brackets atleast and also a framework ,guy denies

Days go by

He learns a lot of stuffs from me ,like how to use inspect in chrome lol, how to use sqlite for small projects , and orm and frameworks.

He used to pin his mistakes on me, so that boss gets angry on me

Then i quit the job

2 years went by

Now he is unemployed, nobody wants a 24 year old plain php coder and template editing web developer

Anyway I hired him, he was my first senior, whatever he did,it didnt matter to me, bcoz i remember

the days we spent on the same hall right next to each other coding in php,

days we brainstormed to fix a div

Also the days we ate lunch and breakfast together

Realizing that the former so-called PHP developers based the entirety of their so-called dashboard framework (self-written of course) on GET requests.

Every. Controller. Only. Accepts. Get. Requests.

It creates stuff? So what! It does update? No matter! It deletes? Who cares!

Just call that URL, and it will release all hell, plagued with multiple side-effects, and then issue a redirect.

Of course that one delete button was inside some twitter bootstrap tabs, and due to the redirect the page always reloaded and the content manager landed on a very different tab. Meaning if they wanted to delete multiple records, they had to hit "activate tab" and "delete" and "activate tab" and "delete" -- rinse and repeat.

It's our *job* to make things easier for our users! Not to waste their time. (Unless you are browser game developer. Then do your thing.)

And we are talking basic CRUD! Basic CRUD! I am not even demanding for it to be restful or to have some parts of a HTML page being updated on the fly with such rad and new technologies like ajax!

There is just question I would like to ask whoever build this: Seriously!?

Why is there such a big hatred towards PHP ? I have recently started backend dev in Laravel and it seems to be a pretty good framework. Most E-commerce frameworks are based on PHP as well. If PHP is so bad then why is it so widely used ?

I am not trying to defend PHP , but I genuinely want to know what's wrong with it ? I might switch to other backend tech then.

First day on my first job ever, the boss asks me what I want to do. I indicated that I had some experience with php and the yii framework (which was at some point very cool xD), so I wanted to start with something like that. And so it goes: after two days of watching laracasts (which is an awesome platform by the way! :O) I got assigned to a project.

Now the company I work at uses some kind of self built system that tracks how many hours are spent on which project, and compares that to how many hours was estimated implementing a feature would take. That's cool, but then I saw that for the project I was working on the time estimated was 5 work days. This was the estimate for both designing the interfaces and implementing both front and backend. I knew in advance that this was probably way to little time for me, but didn't want to come over as the new kid who can't do shit x)

Anyway, I started on the project and was having fun, but the biggest time consuming aspect of the project was not necessarily that I didn't have enough experience: it was that the developer who started this project and made most of the design choices had written some very messy code, without tests or apparently any refactoring. Also, everything was extremly inconsistent and not according to all the best practices I just watched in my laracasts spree.

So fastforward a little: we're way over the estimated hours. Yay. Now suddenly the boss comes by with an almost angry face that the client is becoming angry and we need to finish soon. He makes it entirely our (me and the front end guy) problem and I just decide to say nothing and try to work faster.

Now I'm stuck writing fugly code on top of more fugly code and when I mentioned to my front end guy that I was almost finished with feature but I only needed to finish up the tests, he said something like "oh just don't write tests, that'll take too long"... Is that really the mindset of this company?! No wonder the project I work on was in a very bad state.

Thanks to devrant I see now that I just need to say something if I know that I won't be able to complete something in a certain amount of time and that other people are just like me (thank god). :) I think I'll need to post more rants to vent my frustrations x)

My first rant/story

> 3 years ago company x decides to pay for my software dev degree

> fast forward to today.. x has no idea what I've learned as they never asked..(basically java,php,sql,android)

> x gives me a contract 1 week before my final exams and expects me to work everyday except exam days..

>next day, a dev contacts me - 'oh please brush up on your Vue, Node, angular as well as laravel php framework'

>I've never touched any of those xD fml.. what to do!?

I've learned A TON creating my own very basic PHP framework. I'm using it for basic personal small projects (login system, simple functionality) and I'm loving it. The customization makes specific repetitive tasks so much easier.

Don't get it twisted, I use Laravel and Symfony much more (and Javascript) but I would definitely recommend anyone to do it just for the learning experience.

After I spent 4 years in a startup company (it was literally just me and a guy who started it).

Being web dev in this company meant you did everything from A-Z. Mostly though it was shitty hacky "websites/webapps" on one of the 3 shitty CMSs.

At some point we had 2 other devs and 2 designers (thank god he hired some cause previously he tried designing them on his own and every site looked like a dead puppy soaked in ass juice).

My title changed from a peasant web dev to technical lead which meant shit. I was doing normal dev work + managing all projects. This basically meant that I had to show all junior devs (mostly interns) how to do their jobs. Client meetings, first point of contact for them, caring an "out of hours" support phone 24/7, new staff interviews, hiring, training and much more.

Unrealistic deadlines, stress and pulling hair were a norm as was taking the blame anytime something went wrong (which happened very often).

All of that would be fine with me if I was paid accordingly, treated with respect as a loyal part of the team but that of course wasn't the case.

But that wasn't the worst part about this job. The worst thing was the constant feeling that I'm falling behind, so far behind that I'll never be able to catch up. Being passionate about web development since I was a kid this was scaring the shit out of me. Said company of course didn't provide any training, time to learn or opportunities to progress.

After these 4 years I felt burnt out. Programming, once exciting became boring and stale. At this point I have started looking for a new job but looking at the requirements I was sure I ain't going anywhere. You see when I was busy hacking PHP CMSs, OOPHP became a thing and javascript exploded. In the little spare time I had I tried online courses but everyone knows it's not the same, doing a course and actually using certain technology in practice. Not going to mention that recruiters usually expect a number of years of experience using the technology/framework/language.

That was the moment I lost faith in my web dev future.

Happy to say though about a month later I did get a job in a great agency as a front end developer (it felt amazing to focus on one thing after all these years of "full-stack bullshit), got a decent salary (way more than I expected) and work with really amazing and creative people. I get almost too much time to learn new stuff and I got up to speed with the latest tech in a few weeks. I'm happy.

Advice? I don't really have any, but I guess never lose faith in yourself.

I love static sites and fancy new frameworks. Had an interview some time ago at a medium sized company. They specifically wanted someone to build static sites and introduce the company to Vue and Gridsome.
I got really excited for my first project. It was a wordpress site and I had to build a custom WP theme for it. Not exactly what I expected. Also I had no prior PHP knowledge, nor any experience with Wordpress. So I got really upset, because it wasn’t the technologies I was used to.
The first week was hard, I wanted to quit. But once something clicked. And I realized I know this. This is not PHP, not Wordpress, not Vue, but just simply a programming language. At the core everything programming language is the same. PHP became comfortable, Wordpress conventions didn’t bother me. I realized I can use great technologies with WP too. I get to know twig, added some sass, compiled everything nicely with webpack. And after a month I have a beautiful, fast and efficent site. I love it.
I realised that I don’t love the languages and frameworks. I love coding itself. I love creating efficent and reliable, clean code. No matter the architecture.
And my advice for you is to stop hating particular languages and serious debates on what is better, and hating your job when you can’t code in your new shiny framework. Love coding itself, because it’s a wonderful activity. We are creators, we are artists. Not <insert specific programming language here> developers.

TL;DR you suck, I suck and everybody sucks, deal with it....

------------------------------------

Let me let off some steam, since I've had enough of people hating on languages "just because"

Every language has it's drawbacks and quirks, BUT they have their strengths also. Saying "I hate {language}" is just you being and ignorant prick and probably your head is so far up your ass that you look like an ass hat. With that being said, every language is either good or bad depending on the developer writing in it. Let's give you an example:

If I ware to give you a brick and ask you to put a nail in a plank, can you do it? Yes, it will be easier if you do it with a hammer, but you have a brick, so hammer is out of the question. If you hit your thumb while doing it... well... sorry, but it is not the bricks fault - it is YOU!

JavaScript, yes it has a whole lot of problems, but it works, you can do a ton of stuff and does a good job at that, it is evolving through node and typescript (and others, just a personal pref), BUT if you used js when you ware debugging that jquery (1.0) plugin written in the free time of a 13 yo, who copy pasted a bunch from SO, well, it is not js' problem - deal with it. Same goes for PHP, i've been there where you had a single `index.php` with bazillion lines of code, did a bunch of eval and it was called MVC, but it also is evolving.. thing is all languages allow you to do some dumb stuff so YOU have to be responsible to not fuck it up (which you always DO btw, we all do). Difference is PHP/JS roll with it because the assumption is that you know what you are doing, which again - newsflash - you don't.

More or less I would blame that shit on businesses which decided to go with undergrads to save money instead of investing in their product, hell, I am in a major company that does not invest that doesn't care a whole lot about dev /tech stuff and now everybody's mother is an engineer - they care about money, because investors care about money (ROI) and because clean code does not pay the bills, but money does.

If we get all of the good practices and apply them to each language every one of them has it's place, that is why there is no "The Language", even if there was, we STILL ware going to fuck it up and probably it was going to be even worse than where we are now.

Study, improve, rinse and repeat... There are SENIORS and LEADS out there that are about 25-30 and have no fucking clue about the language, because they have stuck up their heads up the ass of frameworks and refuse to take a breath of clean air and consider something different than their dogmatic framework "way" of doing things.. That is the result you are seeing. Let me give you a fresh example to illustrate where I am at atm:

Le me works with ZendFramework 2.3-2.5 (why not, which is PHP5+ running on PHP7 [fancy, eh]), and little me writes a module for said project, and tries to contain it in its own space, i.e not touching anything outside of the folder of the module so it is SELF-CONTAINED (see, practices), during 2-3-4 iterations of code review, I've had to modify 4 different modules with `if (somthing === self::SOMETHING_TYPE)` as requested by my TL, which resulted in me not covering 3 use-cases after the changes and not adding a new event (the fw is event-driven, cuz.. reasons) so I have to use a bunch of ifs in the code, to check a config value and do shit. That is the way of I am asked to do things I hate what I've done and the fact that because of CR I have lost case-coverage, a week of work and the same TL will be on my ass on monday that things are now "perfect".

The biggest things is "we care about convention and code style"... right.... That is not because of the language, not because of me, not because of the framework - it is some dude's opinion that you hate, not the language.

New stuff are better, reinventing the wheel is also good, if it wasn't you would've had a few stone circular things on your car and things ware going to be like that - we need to try and try, that is the only way we actually learn shit.

Until things change in the trade, we will be on the same boat, complaining about the same shit over and over, you and me won't be alive probably but things will not change a bit.

We live in a place where state is considered good, god objects necessary (can you believe it, I've got kudos for using the term 'God Object'... yep, let that sink in). If you really hate something, please, oh god I beg you, show me how you will do it better and I will shake your hand and buy you a beer, but until then, please keep your ass-hurt fanboy opinion to your self, no one gives a shit about what you think, we will die and the world will not notice...

I need bleach...

Lot of bleach.

When you think that not using a JS framework is bad...

Ever saw a Frankenstein of a HTML, PHP and JQuery? Full rewrite of an old project with more than enough time allowed....

Just... That was not awful enough.

*sobs* so the dev added bootstrap onto this pile of garbage... Instead of rewrite....

Think I missed CSS or included it in HTML? Lol. No.

No CSS. Inline. HTML 4 Tags.

?>
<table width=40 class="table table-striped">
<?php
foreach( $table as $row ) {
....
<input onkeyup="..." onkeydown="..." class="form-control"
...

To give you a basic example of how worse it is...

But the best. The lead developer does not understand why I was speechless.

i need more beer. And bleach. Filth and disgust must get out of my system

Updated a website for an older client today. Realized I originally wrote their website in 2002.

That web site is a fucking non-responsive piece of shit... but it is still running normally after 18 years.

Just HTML/CSS and some light JS/PHP for form processing. It's not fancy but it still performs and works perfect on Desktop and OK on mobile. Mobile devices which DID NOT EXIST when I wrote it.

Let this be a lesson to the entire new class of developers who seems to think you need some framework to develop. You don't. And I GUARANTEE if that site used any framework that framework would have been retired or updated to un-useability 10 years ago.

Meanwhile my LAMP ass "web native" shit spaghetti with ZERO DEPENDENCIES is still just chugging the fuck along.

Coming back here after years to rant about... myself.
TLDR: I fucked up and now have to call a thousand people as a dev, I'm not even getting paid for it and they all get crazy about a random ID that got assigned to them, so now I want to throw away all my electronics and become a skilift operator.

Stupid me deployed a project shortly before we have the largest amount of orders in the year. (Like 90% of yearly orders in a couple minutes cause they are sold out fast and people wait to order first)

I got this horrible legacy "plain self written framework php" project which I tried to upgrade state of the art.
There was one piece missing to upgrade everything and nicely deploy it to some fresh new servers which can handle the high load which peaks at the time orders open.

So I did it the day before orders open and... everything worked well! Nothing crashed.
I wrote my client to wait a little before he confirms the orders, since after confirmation each of the people who ordered will receive an email where they can choose a unique number which they'll receive as a sticker with the order.

Since it's an event my client is promoting, people will meet each other wearing those unique stickers and being able to identify each other online and in person with this number.

Suddenly my clients call me that "customers are complaining about that there is something wrong"
Turned out he confirmed all orders straight away and that part of the application which makes the number unique was broken on the update.
So everyone could chose any number (also taken ones) as his "unique" number.

In my panic, I told my client "It's my mistake, I'll deal with it of course and call the affected people in my free time, since it's my mistake you don't have to pay for it". (it's my largest client by far, am a freelancer)
Realizing when people can chose any number it'll not be a few ones who have the same, it's like almost everyone did chose "69", "1", "420", "88 (a scary amount of people)",... (with 69 being the number being chosen by most people btw, even more then "1")

So now I have to call about a thousand people telling them a new random ID will be assigned to them. I thought of course about mailing them, wrote a script that deals with the issue automatically, and FUCKED IT UP TOO so everyone is confused and the only way to deal with it is by a call basically.
And while I'm sitting here now for 2 days straight calling people in my free time about their random ID will have to change, I realized that some people are quite crazy about random ID's.
I'm talking about yelling and threatening because "is it too much to ask for a working website when ordering this expensive product".

I hate my life right now and am getting quite serious about throwing all my electronic devices away and become a skilift operator instead. Fuck the higher pay, it's not worth the shit, I wanna have only responsibility about one button to press while watching people fall on their face.

TL;DR, I do node.js now.

__________________

There's much I was working on the past weeks. First of all some of you may know I don't work in IT and therefore always am learning how to make things easier in my workspace with tech. And my boss once told me how annoyed he is converting stuff to PDF for easier sending via mail.

Then I started to build PDF converter with
PHP and the Laravel framework. My first steps into it succeeded and I could even deploy my Pdf-wizard website, but everything feels like a hustle and making this application bigger don't really seems like a enjoyable task for me.

I tried the same stuff with Node.js then. It was damn good. It was simple, because there are plenty of packages wich do this tasks on NPM. Afterwards I spent some time on doing research and ended up learning Express Framework.

This brought new inspiration to me and I wanted to share this with you guys.

So I started in a new job a week ago for a two weeks probation period, im getting payed double than my last job but it's so professionally frustrating.

They use a full php stack with a framework called tinymvc that I never heard of and the last commit is from 2009.

Beside this they implement some sort of "flexible" MVC where a great amount of the logic are inside the views. They have one model for each entity (in theory) but in reality one model have methods for a lot of tables.

Beside this the i18n is done by querying the database for all the translation strings and copying it in every user session, so every session file it's about 400kb where around 380 are duplicated translations.

The views folder is empty because they decided to modify the framework to look for the views in another folder called resource's and the development must be done connected directly to the production database

Above all this shit all the many-to-many relations in the database (MySQL) are handled creating a comma separated field on one of the tables, completely breaking the reference integrity.

So, after a week of work I can't stop thinking who the fuck developed this? In which world this shit is okay? How can I work around this big lake of shit?

I started at a company to develop an "uber" clone. Hired by the company's cto. I was happy initially as i had been unemployed for a while but that's because i didn't see the shitstorm coming. The task was build this using php, well 2 weeks later and db locking issues because mysql only allows 100 connections and the website takes over 200mb per request, i tried using the meteor framework, a lil better but the orphaned process would require me to reboot every 2 days. So enter erlang, built in 3 weeks works amazing problems none here... Well in comes the cto (which came in once a week). Apparently he had been reviewing my code and didn't understand it. He couldn't understand no for loops etc and demanded that it be made understandable to a normal dev. Did normal devs write uber no. Anyhow i spent the next 6 Weeks refactoring trying to make elixir looks like imperative programming, he finally gave up, so now I'm deep committed writing an API, finish in a week cto comes in and "why aren't you using patch" i don't need it, well another day implanting a patch api that will never be used. Ok done. Now we have a meeting with the investors who i worked in the same building with and they want a frontend built. I explained i was a backend dev and they needed a uiux expert. Next week cto comes back with this jquery fire pit and stolen bootstrap theme and take me with implementing it. This time we scrap the api change some of the backend logic and implement rest from the 90s one static page per request. After 3 months working with jquery I'm let go because of finical issues. I told them i was a backend dev but they didn't listen if the cto would've gotten a frontend expert things would be different but what to expect from a cto who's coding legacy is creating WordPress plugins.

Hopefully things will be better soon I'm tired of living on the streets.

I gave a chance to PHP using Laravel. My conclusions: Laravel is such a great framework, PHP sintax is hell but its a powerfull language.

I think im in love with Laravel

Dear JavaScript devs,

Can you please stop with using new Framework(); everywhere?

Sincerely,
A PHP dev

I don't know if I'm being pranked or not, but I work with my boss and he has the strangest way of doing things.
- Only use PHP
- Keep error_reporting off (for development), Site cannot function if they are on.
- 20,000 lines of functions in a single file, 50% of which was unused, mostly repeated code that could have been reduced massively.
- Zero Code Comments
- Inconsistent variable names, function names, file names -- I was literally project searching for months to find things.
- There is nothing close to a normalized SQL Database, column ID names can't even stay consistent.
- Every query is done with a mysqli wrapper to use legacy mysql functions.
- Most used function is to escape stirngs
- Type-hinting is too strict for the code.
- Most files packed with Inline CSS, JavaScript and PHP - we don't want to use an external file otherwise we'd have to open two of them.
- Do not use a package manger composer because he doesn't have it installed.. Though I told him it's easy on any platform and I'll explain it.
- He downloads a few composer packages he likes and drag/drop them into random folder.
- Uses $_GET to set values and pass them around like a message contianer.
- One file is 6000 lines which is a giant if statement with somewhere close to 7 levels deep of recursion.
- Never removes his old code that bloats things.
- Has functions from a decade ago he would like to save to use some day. Just regular, plain old, PHP functions.
- Always wants to build things from scratch, and re-using a lot of his code that is honestly a weird way of doing almost everything.
- Using CodeIntel, Mess Detectors, Error Detectors is not good or useful.
- Would not deploy to production through any tool I setup, though I was told to. Instead he wrote bash scripts that still make me nervous.
- Often tells me to make something modern/great (reinventing a wheel) and then ends up saying, "I think I'd do it this way... Referes to his code 5 years ago".
- Using isset() breaks things.
- Tens of thousands of undefined variables exist because arrays are creates like $this[][][] = 5;
- Understanding the naming of functions required me to write several documents.
- I had to use #region tags to find places in the code quicker since a router was about 2000 lines of if else statements.
- I used Todo Bookmark extensions in VSCode to mark and flag everything that's a bug.
- Gets upset if I add anything to .gitignore; I tried to tell him it ignores files we don't want, he is though it deleted them for a while.
- He would rather explain every line of code in a mammoth project that follows no human known patterns, includes files that overwrite global scope variables and wants has me do the documentation.
- Open to ideas but when I bring them up such as - This is what most standards suggest, here's a literal example of exactly what you want but easier - He will passively decide against it and end up working on tedious things not very necessary for project release dates.
- On another project I try to write code but he wants to go over every single nook and cranny and stay on the phone the entire day as I watch his screen and Im trying to code.

I would like us all to do well but I do not consider him a programmer but a script-whippersnapper. I find myself trying to to debate the most basic of things (you shouldnt 777 every file), and I need all kinds of evidence before he will do something about it. We need "security" and all kinds of buzz words but I'm scared to death of this code. After several months its a nice place to work but I am convinced I'm being pranked or my boss has very little idea what he's doing. I've worked in a lot of disasters but nothing like this.

We are building an API, I could use something open source to help with anything from validations, routing, ACL but he ends up reinventing the wheel. I have never worked so slow, hindered and baffled at how I am supposed to build anything - nothing is stable, tested, and rarely logical. I suggested many things but he would rather have small talk and reason his way into using things he made.

I could fhave this project 50% done i a Node API i two weeks, pretty fast in a PHP or Python one, but we for reasons I have no idea would rather go slow and literally "build a framework". Two knuckleheads are going to build a PHP REST framework and compete with tested, tried and true open source tools by tens of millions?

I just wanted to rant because this drives me crazy. I have so much stress my neck and shoulder seems like a nerve is pinched. I don't understand what any of this means. I've never met someone who was wrong about so many things but believed they were right. I just don't know what to say so often on call I just say, 'uhh..'. It's like nothing anyone or any authority says matters, I don't know why he asks anything he's going to do things one way, a hard way, only that he can decipher. He's an owner, he's not worried about job security.

New developers. Tip: There is no silver bullet.

If you like Python, please understand GIL's behavior before making a system that handles thousands of requests.

If you like Java, know that "Write once, run anywhere" is a fallacy. Even application servers don't like the same WAR.

If you like PHP, understand the life cycle of a request before connecting to the database from all corners.

If you like C#, don't make it a small command-line application that will be used on FreeBSD.

If you like C, meet valgrind.

If you like C++, templates are cool, but don't overdo it. And take the opportunity to meet valgrind.

Never use the same tool to do everything. Elect the language and framework for the given need with rationality.

Every time I see a "Java Man", a "C++ Chad" or anything like that, it comes to mind that if he were a carpenter, he would be tightening screws with hammers.

Every lock-in is bad.

I'm intentionally resigning from my remote software development job to teach my company a lesson. The guy who wrote the codes previously really knew how to cook spaghetti 😀😂.

To add a single line takes minutes, because when you do something else breaks, and you'll keep fixing what breaks when you tried fixing what breaks when you try fixing what..... endless loop of bug-fix cycle.

Now they blame it on me.

They won't understand if they don't get someone new, my reputation will fix itself through that..

My first opinion after sighting the codes was, "re-write the whole project using better patterns and architecture", the reply as you can guess, we'll do that later.

I couldn't even upgrade the server to use even PHP 7.1 because the framework breaks, the guy has editted a lot from the vendors files. Don't ever try composer updates.

Two word to describes the situation. "It sucks".

The previous developer needs to be shot, literally.

older clients are returning with my old projects and asking for improvements, I did buy a few very shitty scripts from the internet/ and used one of my friends custom php cms for the other client because I REALLY needed money and they needed the projects yesterday.

Now I'm looking at the code and can't start working because of how messy it all is, I want to remake it all with a good framework and system, but it would take too much time (and they want it fast) and they wouldn't want to pay for the improvements because what they have now works..

I guess the shit you throw out when you're younger does come flying back like a boomerang..

Trying to integrate old code into a brand new framework... Oh, the pain.

you wanna know what the most hilarious shit is? hackernews users AKA the 6 figure startup bros that "rule the world" in terms of code and software...

trying to argue the best way to build a website 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

here's some select quotes:

"I believe the most minimalistic and productive way is to just use php"

^ this guy must not know its 2023 now

"Unless you are a web developer I don't see the point of a CSS framework, it's much easier to roll your own."

^ this guy must not know the pain and suffering that is 'rolling your own' in CSS

"Sadly, I just don't have the time to generate the content I wanted to do, so the site sits."

^ this guy just... wait, what?

but you know what? these guys clearly know WAY more than me in terms of software, it's good they get infinite salad bar and prime rib every day at silicon valley's best and brightest!

please fucking kill me i want it to end

PHP is the best framework for VSCode.

Now that I have your attention... Have you written a technical article? I'm thinking of writing something frontend related but not sure what topic to pick.

I'd love to hear about your experience and any tips you may have :D

When your friend reads CodeIgniter as Cod eL'gnitter 😁🍻

Doing a full rewrite from some DIY spaghetti framework: when it can't find a search query it returns "false" with the status code 200, the same php file responsible for querying an external api is put into all sorts of named folders, so e.g. a user that is in the results page X can continue searching on the same URL, instead of doing proper url rewrites or ajax calls to the one in the root directory, html is thrown into every other php line, a DIY sort function for a numbers array that fails to sort 0 before 1 and that all is just a 10 minute review, can't wait to see the rest.

More like a sub company/department inside a company: Android.

I still use it as my main driver, but every time I try to get back into development with it(did it professionally for 2 years nearing on 3 and was a lead Android dev, mind you not necessarily by merit....) I end up hating everything about it.

The tooling is meh, the API is hideous and even with the addition of Kotlin, which I do find a nicer language over Java I still dislike it. The ammount of shit needed to make something as simple as store data, manage fragments, integrate with the NDK, make JSON API calls or even shake motions is just ludicrous and counter intuitive. I can see why people would hate Java based on Android, a language that I generally love and defend.
I firmly believe that people extend frameworks or tooling for 2 reasons only:

1 the stack is so awesome that you just want to create packages and libraries to extend the functionality of a powerful environment, like gems for Ruby, python packages, Node packages, php composer, nuget etc

2 the stack is so fucking hideous that people need to fix shit: the entire android square utility framework, butterknife, flutter, react native, codenameone, etc etc

The case with Android is the second. I have not met a professional Android developer that completely likes everything about Android, but will seldom find people that HATE other frameworks or environments.

Android it is for me. Still my daily driver and I love every Android phone I have ever owned. It just makes me feel lots of more compassion for fellow Android devs.

This is stupid but i think is my best idea yet.

So i have an old orange pi, with only 256m memory. Its running a few tasks i need but i wanted to use it for controlling a few things from my phone (lights and powering on my pc) so i thought i would make a server for that. Now mind you, my shirt doesnt say "lightweight backend language", so there was no way the pi couldve handled a struts server. I was digging around and found that php has a shell_exec command. Then it clicked, and i wrote the whole system like
shell_exec("java -jar someprocess.jar"). Now this sounds really stupid but it works and php is really light so it doesnt even slow it down that much.

Thinking about making this into some kinda server/framework/something just for fun.

Managed to land 2 interviews:

The first one was for a startup that was looking for a react programmer (I've never used react before).

The later was a php job at a big company. They told me they used cakephp which is a framework I had not used before either.

Still, I'm more familiar with php than react so I felt more confident with the second interview. However, I felt there was a lot of good chemistry going on in the first interview.

The interviewer was incredibly nice (he was the lead dev, not an HR person as opposed to the second interviewer)

He gave me a small react test to be completed within a week. I barely managed to do it in time but I felt good about the solution.

Just as I was sending it, I get a call from the second interviewer saying I landed the php job.

I wasn't sure if my novice react skills would be impressive enough to secure me the react job (and I really needed a job) so I accepted.

After explaining everything to the guy who was interviewing me for the react job, he understood and was kind enough to schedule a code review where he walked through my novice code explaining what could be improved, helping me learn more in the process.

I regret not accepting the react position. The PHP they got me working with is fucking PHP5 with Cake2 :/

Don't get me wrong, I like the salary and the people are nice but the tech stack they're using (lacking source control by the way!), as well as all the lengthy meetings are soul-draining.

Fun issue

Swedish client is unable to enter a currency conversion rate in a field and submit. 'Not a float' well we can clearly see that it is a float when he does it (0.5 for example), not an issue for us though.

Reproducing was a nightmare, eventually it boiled down to the fact that the framework we were using had automatic locale checks. Now because our numeric fields are actually weird text fields (front end nonsense), it was converting the period to be a comma (Swedish people would write 0,5 normally). And if you actually entered 0,5 the range check (0.01-1000) failed because it couldn't parse the comma (no locale check on that one)

Godamn facepalm. Really confused the hell out of us when we saw the error, had to go diving through library code. To top this off, locale checks are supposed to be disabled as of about 2 years ago

In revenge against our oppressor :PHP: on slack is now an alias for the shit emoji

PHP with Laravel is awesome, best framework ever. I just wish my client is convinced, there is something he doesn't like about PHP

Just wondering why most of you here hate php. I have multiple live projects using the Laravel framework, runs great and I love it!

I visited one IT company here in my town and lead dev told me they are writing their own framework becuase they dont believe on people who wrote open source projects, after few clicking on trying to show me his latest live project -PHP fatal error appeared and I was like 🤔

Recently was in a recruitment hackathon for leading technology company.
So, to test ppls networking, team building skill they grouped ppl into a team.
I was teamed up with noobs, and had very bad experience.
One guy in the team was arguing to use PHP for developing a web app.
Me : What PHP framework are u good at!?
He: what is framework !?
Me : like laravel etc..
He: no I meant we use plain PHP!

Me (mind voice) : go fuck yourself, I am bailing out , I Do not need the job

Me : It's ohk we only know NodeJs , so, gave a wierd smile

He was still arguing ,but I gave 0 f***
This is considered as a fight!?
Yeah not the worst though
Apparently the recruitment ppl liked him a lot in my team!

Ok, here goes...

I was once asked to evaluate upgrade options for an online shop platform.

The thing was built on Zend 1, but that's not the problem.

The geniuses that worked on it before didn't have any clue about best practices, framework convention, modular thinking, testing, security issues...nothing!

There were some instances when querying was done using a rudimentary excuse for a model layer. Other times, they would just use raw queries and just ignore the previous method. Sometimes the database calls were made in strange function calls inside randomly loaded PHP files from different folders from all over the place. Sometimes they used JOINs to get the data from multiple tables, sometimes they would do a bunch of single table queries and just loop every data set to format it using multiple for loops.

And, best of all, there were some parts of the app that would just ignore any ideea of frameworks, conventions and all that and would be just a huge PHP file full of spagetti code just spalshed around, sometimes with no apparent logic to it. Queries, processing, HTML...everything crammed in one file...

The most amazing thing was that this code base somehow managed to function in production for more than 5 years and people actualy used it...

Imagine the reaction I got from the client the moment I said we should burn it to the ground and rebuild the whole thing from scratch...

Good thing my boss trusted me and backed me up (he is a great guy by the way) and we never had to go along with that Frankenstein monster...

This might not resonate with many ranters here... but FUCK Taylor Otwell & Graham Campbell.

Like, not on a personal level. Maybe they're great to drink a beer with. But as framework devs... fuck everything about them.

Laravel seems so nice, it takes away many annoyances of developing in PHP. Collections are the array object you've always needed. The route bindings, middlewares, request validation objects, it's all sweet.

But eventually your company serves a few million customers, you run into specific performance problems or missing features on a deeper level. You open the issue tracker... and see a few hundred issues about the problems you are encountering, they already exist.

Some just have a short paragraph with a request for a feature, some complete PRs with tests in the style of the framework. All of them closed.

Reasons?

"We don't think anyone will ever need this"
"This seems complicated, you can just do <super non-DRY hacky code>"

FUCK YOU WITH YOUR TODO APP SNIPPETS AND USER-POST-ARTICLE EXAMPLES. I'M NOT BUILDING THE NEXT WORDPRESS. I'M DEALING WITH THE REALITY OF GRAPH DATABASE CLUSTERS, COMPLEX AUDITING LOGS AND A GAZILLION QUERIES PER SECOND.

Sigh... the problem with all these "simple" and "elegant" languages & frameworks is that they don't fucking scale.

Not because the language, server or framework intrinsically can't do it, but because the maintainers are stuck thinking in terms of their retarded non-realistic example apps.

I think I'll go back to my cave and write some Haskell or Rust to calm down.

So I was assigned to improve an existing internal CMS application where they wanted the ability to add extra form applications and restricting them based on people from different departments. As well as include some other improvements like speed as they mentioned that it was slow in some instances.

What I found was the original developer decided to not use any kind of framework and decided to be creative by creating his own MVC framework. With about 300 users in this system and utilising no caching of queries, views, not even using PHP OpCache, even quite a few security holes, I was damn surprised at how this thing was running. I asked the original developer why he didn't use an open source framework and he said that he thought that he'd create something and be the next Facebook.

It was a mammoth task to "improve" this system but the main thing was that I took custody of this project and that I prevented him from trying to make a bigger mess of things for this project.

I would like to rant one more time about my internship.

I began in July, the first. That's my sister who helped me to find this internship and I was a little scared about how bad it could be.
I came at the office, my boss told me that I would work in an "Innovation lab", an apartment where people works on projects that are less corporate than the enterprise's ones.

To me, it was amazing. So I came in this apartment, it was like a dream. I didn't know that I would have such luck to be in this environment : kitchen, sofas, beds, many decorations for all political ideologies, ideas. There was some decorations that were about weed and many cool things for the young guy I am.

The lab's leader told me that it was a very free environment and all the awesome stuff I could use.
Then they showed me where I would work.

We were two interns employed as web developers. We had a complete room for us.
Then we began to work there, and I was presented to my internship tutor.
He gave me some instructions but told me that I had a week before the project begin.

Here began the troubles.

We waited a complete week without having any instructions. Then we began to build something in PHP with our knowledge and the informations someone from the lab gave us.
When finally we had news from the project, two weeks later, we learned that the project would be built with ASP. NET.
Here we go, I learn ASP. NET alone. I have many problems and nobody helps (even if the problem comes from enterprise's API/Framework). I finally make something usable with no help, after I discovered that my mate wasn't developer at all and just took an option for her classes which forced her to get an internship.

She had 3 month left, I had 6.
Then when the project really began, nobody came to verify what I was doing and on a meeting, they said that I was doing nothing.

The boss even became mad on us because he couldn't see what we were doing (we're back end developers).
I asked for help to the developers of the enterprise and someone came, sad to have to help an internship, and learned some tricks but nothing else.

To have a concrete explanation of what DDD was, I had to ask 4 times for help.

Finally I had something that could receive data from the connected hives we are working on and store them into a database in the architecture of the enterprise.

Then, they wanted me to try an API for them. I tried, and it wasn't working at all. So they make me still wait to change my whole architecture when the API will be released.

Recently, I was told that I would never do the front-end of the project (which was an horror because of the fantasm of the lab leader). Then they realized that my late wasn't a programmer. So they asked me to make a prototype for the front-end. I did for a presentation.

Then they didn't tell me the device they would use for the presentation and it was an iPhone 7. Idk why, safari couldn't display what IE can.

They blamed me for having done a bad work. It wasn't my job. I did it to help because they can't find a fucking front-end developer with a little more experience than me.

Actually, I am an alone developer since my mate is gone and the lab leader don't want me to show up because she considers me as a shame.
I asked to be moved back in the office of the enterprise, they agreed and said it was a 2-weeks delay. It's the Thursday of the second week and I have no news. I send mails to my tutor, even SMS, he doesn't answer me. They didn't call me to give me my pay with a week late. And the person who is responsible doesn't answer me neither. I came to see her, but she wasn't available. I'm now alone in a desk, waiting the time to pass.

Fucking this shit.

I'm in France.

EDIT : I forgot to say that I can't use the sofas or bed because I'm allergic to cats and there were 3 cats. Now there is still one and this beast vomits and poos everywhere in the house...

Finally finished the longest ticket I've ever worked on in my life. The ticket title and description was a pretty simple and straightforward one: "Upgrade from PHP 7.4 to 8".

If it was only so simple in real life. Our application is mostly done with API Platform framework, which is based on top of Symfony framework which is based on top of PHP language.

Once I did PHP 7 => 8 upgrade I needed to upgrade API Platform 2 => 3. But of-course that couldn't have been done as before that I needed to upgrade from Symfony 5 => 6.

This all was literally an equivalent of touching into a wasp nest - it took me a bit over 5 months and 800 hours of work and there was literally not a single source file left untouched.

In the process of all of this I've ran into literally dozen undocumented feature-breaking changes, broken backwards-compatibility promises and inside out architectural changes - from both the frameworks and the language itself.

Upgrading just one major version of anything SHOULD NOT be so hard. And to top it all up just to think I will need to do this again in a year or two..

Experiences like these really set my hate for time-based model of releases and the state of today's development in general.

Well guys I was wrong the other day, Laravel is the most beautiful PHP Framework I've used to date.

Who loves Laravel (php framework) as much as i do? How long have you been using it? First time @devRant, pretty cool app! 🤓👍👏

So I was excited about working on a proyect I recently was invited to work on, but when I finally got my hands on the code I felt this urge to scream "YOU FUCKER!!!" (the dev responsible for the code)

I applied for software engineer in a software development firm. It clearly states in my resume that I am mainly a PHP developer in my current job. The company I applied for focuses on javascript frontend frameworks with Java Spring or node.js as backend.

The screening consisted of three parts; written exams, panel interview and the final interview. It lasted for a whole day, and when It's time for the final interview, the interviewer said that there are no slots left for trainee/junior level which is my level with 5 yrs experience in the industry.

I understand that this means that I will be trained with the technology that they are using so it will be an entry-level job but I submitted my resume several days ago and they didn't reviewed it first before making me attend the screening. I just wasted my time with this! They could've said from the start that they are not looking for people that do not have any experience with this technology/framework.

Fuck

Started new job almost two moths ago..

For almost 3 years I was developing custom themes, plugins, and widget for WordPress using PHP, jQuery/AJAX, and MySQL.

The new company that hired me brought me on as a backend developer to help rebuild their custom PHP Framework, and other web based software/products as their moving toward Google Cloud Platform.

When I started, MVC and OOP was new to me... took a couple weeks to get the hang of things, and understand their system.

Just when I was getting comfortable, I had a task assigned to me that was all NodeJS...

Had a 30 check-in the week I started the Node task, and was feeling pretty beat down because it was all new to me and I wasn’t making a lot of progress, and still not comfortable with Promises yet, and some other ES6 features but finding my way around slowly but surely.

Manager reassured me that I wasn’t going to be fired and it wasn’t unique to myself. Very encouraging to hear, but I’m my own worst critic so it’s frustrating not being able to make progress like I would with PHP projects.

Fast forward to this week, I started to review another task for a feed and found it’s all Ruby! Another language I have no familiarity with... and started to question if I’ll every get the hang of all these languages and be a solid team member...

Not only do I have to get a grasp on NodeJS and Ruby now, but then I’ll also have to get familiar with GCP and whatever else comes along with it...

Oh and I’m using Linux now instead of Windows/ OSX... so there’s that too.. plus the other command line tools the company built, and uses..

I was comfortable developing in PHP and know I needed to take a step and accept this job to move my career forward but it seems like I’m always behind the 8 ball...

Some days I wonder if it was worth staying a Wordpress developer and just focused on learning ReactJS and stay more Front-end than Backend..

I enjoy working with talented people but I don’t like being the low man on the totem pole knowing I don’t have the experience yet.

Does it feel like this for all devs?!?!

It's going to be a long rant here and probably my fist rant ! And yes I am pissed up with a community growing in dev world .
There are so called framework experts who are so good that they can spin up a nodejs server with express and mongodb .
So to the people who bash on php , who bash down MySQL for no fuckig reason other than they have heard these are not so cool.fuck yourself incompetent piece of crap!!! I can hear all day about how algorithms and datsructure are not important form these people.fuck you because if you don't know /understand /want to understand the basics of computing how the fuck can your brain be trusted with anyting serious??If you can't write down proofs of basic / standard algorithms and till bash down on people who do those please fuck you because those are the people indirectly responsible for your Job so that u can work on fancy frameworks and cool IDE's .
Instead of whining down dedicate some time to your maturity and knowledge because that what we devs are all about.we like solving problems right?.
I repeat if you are anything like stating up it career in mid 20s maybe.leave everything if you can .Forget all fucking frameworks and technologies start with basics of computing, right at instruction level using assembly .Then move to a higher language when u know and reason about what your CPU is actually doing.
If you can't do that and keep on crying and bashing down things wihout proper explanations fuck yourself with a cactus .

I'm really not sure. When I was 7-8 years old, I liked to view source in IE, then I somehow managed to use Javascript in the browser. First only some dumb opening of windows. And I liked Batch, so I made some files for copying, backup and stuff.

Then I got to PHP during the years from some online tutorial about making dynamic websites. My website was more static than stone, but yeah, I did page loading with PHP! Awful experience anyway, because I had to install Xampp, get it work and other stuff. 11 years old or so. (and I used Xampp only as a fileserver between laptop and desktop later, because.. PHP4... just no.)

As 12 years old or so I experienced my first World of Warcraft (vanilla) on a custom server in an internet cafe and I thought it's a singleplayer game. When I found out that no, I googled how to make my own server (hated multiplayer back then and loved good games with huge storylines). Failed miserably with ManGOS, got something to work with ArcEMU. There I learned some C++ basic stuff, which I hoped would helped me to fix some bugs. When I opened the code I was like: "Suuure." and left it like that. I learned what a MySQL database is, broke it like four times when I forgot WHERE and still rather played with websites i.e. html, css, js and optionally php when I wanted to repair a webpage for the server. With a friend we managed to get the server work via Hamachi, was fun, the server died too soon. Then I got ManGOS to work, but there wasn't really any interest to make a server anymore, just singleplayer for the lore. (big warcraft fan, don't kick me :D )

I think it was when I was 13y.o. I went to Delphi/Pascal course, which I liked a lot from the beginning, even managed to use my code on old Knoppix via Lazarus(Pascal). At this age I really liked thoae Flash games which were still common to see everywhere. So I downloaded .swfs, opened and tried to understand it. Managed to pull some stuff from it and rewrite in Pascal. Nope, never again that crap.

About the same time I got to Flash files I discovered Java. It was kind of popular back then, so I thought let's give it a try. I liked Flash more. Seriously. I've never seen so much repetitiveness and stupid styling of a code. I had either IDE for compiling C++ or Pascal or notepad! You think I wanted my code kicked all over the place in multiple folders and files? No.

So back to Pascal. I made some apps for my old hobby, was quite satisfied with the result (quiz like app), but it still wasn't the thing. And I really thought I'd like to study CS.

I started to love PHP because of phpBB forums I worked on as 15 y.o. I guess. At the same time I think there was an optional subject at school, again with Pascal. I hated the subject, teacher spoke some kind of gibberish I didn't really understand back then at all and now I find it only as a really stupid explanation of loops and strings.

So I started to hate Pascal subject, but not really the lang itself. Still I wanted something simpler and more portable. Then I got to Python as hm, 17y.o. I think and at the same time to C++ with DevC++. That was time when I was still deciding which lang to choose as my main one (still playing with website, database and js).

Then I decided that learning language from some teacher in a class seriously pisses me off and I don't want to experience it again. I choose Python, but still made some little scripts in C++, which is funny, because Python was considered only as a scripting lang back then.

I haven't really find a cross-platform framework for C++, which would: a) be easy to install b) not require VisualStudio PayForMe 20xy c) have nice license if I managed to make something nice and distribute it. I found Unity3D though, so I played with Blender for models, Audacity for music and C# for code. Only beautiful memories with Unity. I still haven't thought I'm a programmer back then.

For Python however I found Kivy and I was playing with it on a phone for about a year. Still I haven't really know what to do back then, so I thought... I like math, numbers, coding, but I want to avoid studying physics. Economics here I go!

Now I'm in my third year at Uni, should be writing thesis, study hard and what I do? Code like never before, contribute, work on a 3D tutorial and play with Blender. Still I don't really think about myself as a programmer, rather hobby-coder.

So, to answer the question: how did I learn to program? Bashing to shit until it behaved like I desired i.e. try-fail learning. I wouldn't choose a different path.

Several years ago, I heard from a friend who was doing assignments for students on the side. Quite a hustle. His story began when he wanted to figure out why can't these students be able to draw their own database tables, relationships, UML, etc. That's what school has to be teaching them and then he was told that they were learning through MS Access. He goes and tell me that even though this is a lame way of teaching database design, its definitely easier to explain through hands-on and less typing mistakes, as according to the lecturer he met. Making the explanation more visually appealing and helpful for understanding.

OK I get it, but somehow that taught them the wrong way of database design from the beginning. I'd prefer getting them to start writing SQL commands from day 1 and play em at some DB VM. Keep em as real as it gets.

Now I have my own students asking for help in their assignment and also asked for tutoring lessons in web development. So I gave them the crash course in HTML, CSS and Javascript. I've asked them if they've used anything of what I taught them in school. They go and tell me that they've been taught web development through Wordpress. Oh WTF!? I havn't talked to their lecturer yet but it better be a really good explanation to teach these youngsters in a flawed and bloated PHP CMS framework for "web development".

A couple of years back I wrote what would be a strong contender for the title: the ugliest mvc framework ever written in php.
Bright side: now I know the pitfalls of mvc very intimately.
Brighter side: never have to work on that code again.

Now I can use ready made mvc frameworks and still know where to look if shit goes south.

> Wants to learn something new (pref not JavaScript)
> Can't find anything that's as dope as Spring boot (java framework).
> C# sucks
> Python ain't going anywhere
> PHP is dated
> Go sounds like a good choice but so damn non-useful if you don't do ultra concurrent stuff at google

Ends up getting more used to JavaScript
Suggestions? For summer learning... Freshman year.

The client wants the booking project to be all in JS Framework (not specifying any) and NO PHP since client hates PHP (and I don't know why) from the very beginning when the only dev was my former front-end partner (lead dev).
I was wondering why the client still continued the project, YET the file extensions were still on PHP. I asked the lead dev what happened and answered he didn't know know how to start migrating to JS framework and just started NATIVE PHP.
Still, as being a good dev and a supporter to lead dev, did accept and the project as lead dev's assistant. Fixed bugs, enhancement and responsive (DEMMIT, I FREAKING HATE RESPONSIVE) and later complained why am I doing front-end tasks, when it's not my task, supposedly. I EXPECTED MORE ON BACK-END TASKS!

(HERE'S THE EPIC ADVISE GOES AND CALLED OURSELVES MASTER)

Me: Master, why did you not started the project in JS Framework instead of native php?
Lead Dev : You know what master, this project has been already done if the client allows US to use WordPress for this project will still be migrated to JS. And now, WE are trapped to make every window size be responsive since there are already a standard for each window screen.
Me: (DO NOT INCLUDE ME IN YOUR FUCKING SORCERY! I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DID THERE AND WHY D'YOU ACCEPT THIS PROJECT, SLAVE, WHEN YOU ALREADY KNOW YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DO IT, IN THE FIRST PLACE. STOP BEING A DICKHEAD AND DO NOT WASTE CLIENT'S MONEY AND EFFORT FOR YOUR USELESS BUNCH OF SHIT!) Indeed, responsive is a such a pain in the arse.
Lead Dev: Maybe, let's just finish our tasks first and wait the project to be migrated to JS.

P.S. The project manager and client asked me if I do know how to migrate the project from native PHP to JS framework and sabotaged lead dev. OFCOURSE, YES! But, I did not respond that quickly, unless eerm, you know, I earn greater than lead dev. Truth be told and practically speaking, it's really unfair for me if I accept the back-job when the lead dev delivers inaccurate deliverables and earned greater than me. No way, Jose!

Now, I am not working with him because I'm super done with him and later did I know, lead dev is looking for Drupal dev to be working for the booking project.

If you also programm in your free time you probably know this kind of situations.

Situation: I'm currently creating my own PHP framework (I know there are plenty... I do it for "fun").

The database Connector Class wasn't working so after an eternity (around 2h) I just went to bed.
11pm: My Eyes open. I'm sure I just solved the problem in my dreams. (Spoiler alert: I didn't)

2am: I go to bed again. It didn't work.

Next day: I open the file add a missing required file. It works. I'm now tired AF and feel like dying and above all: I now get all the suicide PHP memes. Good night guys. I'm getting some sleep.

The first job I had, asked me to build a simple CRUD functionality in CodeIgniter (It was popular in 2017).

I wasn't able to understand the framework and its ins and outs.
(I only knew Core PHP at that point).

It took me 3 days to finish the task and I got yelled at by the team leader because of it and I almost broke down crying. At that point I was convinced that web development career isn't for me.

I regularly diss on PHP in office but the truth is just that the developers before me wrote bad code. It was bad code in PHP alright but they had a whole framework to use and at least organize their code better but they didn't use it.

I have seen their JavaScript code too and it was all in one file.

P.S. I have no idea under which condition they had to write the code. The app was initially outsourced.

Okay so i graduated last year and got a job working for a place that sadly disappoints me in their web development practices. This place uses a dead technology(my opinion)called Cold Fusion by Adobe. They do not use any form of version control like Git and their sites are very shitty and the design and development is implemented very poorly honestly. It honestly makes me sad that i feel like im smarter than my department vp. That being said i do not feel challenged here and am looking to collaborate in some open source projects via Github preferably.I dont consider myself an expert in this field but i would say im about intermediate level in web development. Im pretty comfortable with HTML,CSS/SASS,PHP,JS/JQuery, and im pretty comfortable in the PHP framework Laravel. So if anyone is interested in collaborating or starting something up, id be so down for it. :)

Ok so I have done some work with crypto currency mining pools and recently a client requested for me to make a splash page that showed data from multiple instances of these pools APIs. I went to find some documentation for this open source api and to my surprise there is none. I thought of querying the public API from the clients side and it worked, however it's so slow that the data shows up roughly 20 seconds after the page loads.

Easy fix right? Make a PHP server get the data every 5 seconds, cache it and serve the data with the page and use a websocket for live updates! Until I found out that there is no practical way in this garbage framework to get the damn API data without making an HTTP request or mutilating the original source code. I'm so done with this garbage framework. It literally loads pages based on a page and action parameter on the index.php. I quit.

I have the urge write my own javascript framework for my personal projects.
But I think it's harder than I think 😬

Probably should start with a PHP one. Much simpler.

Already have my own DB Lib is use a lot. Good start.

I fell in love with CodeIgniter...
It's just a so simple but powerful and feature-rich PHP-Framework.

I like prefer CodeIgniter over Laravel!

I really hate PHP frameworks.

I also often write my own frameworks but propriety. I have two decades experience doing without frameworks, writing frameworks and using frameworks.

Virtually every PHP framework I've ever used has causes more headaches than if I had simply written the code.

Let me give you an example. I want a tinyint in my database.

> Unknown column type "tinyint" requested.

Oh, doctrine doesn't support it and wont fix. Doctrine is a library that takes a perfectly good feature rich powerful enough database system and nerfs it to the capabilities of mysql 1.0.0 for portability and because the devs don't actually have the time to create a full ORM library. Sadly it's also the defacto for certain filthy disgusting frameworks whose name I shan't speak.

So I add my own type class. Annoying but what can you do.

I have to try to use it and to do so I have to register it in two places like this (pseudo)...

Types::add(Tinyint::class);
Doctrine::add(Tinyint::class);

Seems simply enough so I run it and see...

> Type tinyint already exists.

So I assume it's doing some magic loading it based on the directory and commend out the Type::add line to see.

> Type to be overwritten tinyint does not exist.

Are you fucking kidding me?

At this point I figure out it must be running twice. It's booting twice. Do I get a stack trace by default from a CLI command? Of course not because who would ever need that?

I take a quick look at parent::boot(). HttpKernel is the standard for Cli Commands?

I notice it has state, uses a protected booted property but I'm curious why it tries to boot so many times. I assume it's user error.

After some fiddling around I get a stack trace but only one boot. How is it possible?

It's not user error, the program flow of the framework is just sub par and it just calls boot all over the place.

I use the state variable and I have to do it in a weird way...

> $booted = $this->booted;parent::boot();if (!$booted) {doStuffOnceThatDependsOnParentBootage();}

A bit awkward but not life and death. I could probably just return but believe or not the parent is doing some crap if already booted. A common ugly practice but one that works is to usually call doSomething and have something only work around the state.

The thing is, doctrine does use TINYINT for bool and it gets all super confused now running commands like updates. It keeps trying to push changes when nothing changed. I'm building my own schema differential system for another project and it doesn't have these problems out of the box. It's not clever enough to handle ambiguous reverse mappings when single types are defined and it should be possible to match the right one or heck both are fine in this case. I'd expect ambiguity to be a problem with reverse engineer, not compare schema to an exact schema.

This is numpty country. Changing TINYINT UNSIGNED to TINYINT UNSIGNED. IT can't even compare two before and after strings.

There's a few other boots I could use but who cares. The internet seems to want to use that boot function. There's also init stages missing. Believe it or not there's a shutdown and reboot for the kernel. It might not be obvious but the Type::add line wants to go not in the boot method but in the top level scope along with the class definition. The top level scope is run only once.

I think people using OOP frameworks forget that there's a scope outside of the object in PHP. It's not ideal but does the trick given the functionality is confined to static only. The register command appears to have it's own check and noop or simply overwrite if the command is issued twice making things more confusing as it was working with register type before to merely alias a type to an existing type so that it could detect it from SQL when reverse engineering.

I start to wonder if I should just use columnDefinition.

It's this. Constantly on a daily basis using these pretentious stuck up frameworks and libraries.

It's not just the palava which in this case is relatively mild compared to some of the headaches that arise. It's that if you use a framework you expect basic things out of the box like oh I don't know support for the byte/char/tinyint/int8 type and a differential command that's able to compare two strings to see if they're different.

Some people might say you're using it wrong. There is such a thing as a learning curve and this one goes down, learning all the things it can't do. It's cripplesauce.

WordPress is the best PHP framework...like framework!

Well this is the thing. I have been starting to replace a lot of my shit with Golang. I think it is a great language because of one small fact: it is a boring language.

With this I don't mean that it is not incredibly fun to use. It is and honestly I feel that a lot of the concepts that I had from C passed quite nicely with some additions. The language does not do anything special and there is no elegant code. It works in a very procedural fashion without taking into consideration any of the snazzy things found in JS, Python, c# etc etc. Interfaces and struct make sense to me, way more than oop does in other languages. I don't need generics with the use of interface parameters and I have hadly found a situation in which I have to strive too far away from the way things are done with Go to be happy with it, then again my projects are not hard or by any means groundbreaking (most of them deal with logistics or content management and a couple of financial apps that I am rewriting in Go from work)

The outcome is fast and easy to read since idiomatic go is for the most part very readable(no people...single letter variable names are by no means a standard and they should feel ashamed from it)

I miss the idea of a framework, but not so much and the docs and internal code for Go is just way top inviting. I believe the code to be readable enough than anyone that has gotten used to the syntax and ideas of the language can just jump in and start learning. This is the first language that I have learnt from studying the code as it is inside of the standard lib, the same I cannot say for any other language or framework.

Also, it play beautifully nice with vs code.

I dunno man, I feel that I am doing something wrong. I have projects built in Node, php, python, ruby and spring java as well as .net core and I still find Golang way more appealing simply because it goes harder than Python with "one preferred way" to do things.

The lang does not make me feel like a pro, i certainly develop in it at pro speeds, but it was made with beginners in mind to built fast and concurrent apps, with the most minimal syntax possible.

I guess my gripe with it is that it gets shunned from this, saying that it ignored years of lang research to make it as dumbed down as possible. Which it did, lack of generics amongst other things certainly make it seem like, but I will not say that it was poorly designed. Not at all, I believe it is a testament of amazing engineering. To be able to create such a simple yet amazingly powerful language.

Wish there were more to it. Wish there was a nice gui lib or a ml framework comparable to the ones offered by python and java. But I guess such things will come with time.

I feel stupid with this language.

And that is fine.

Why people diss php when they don't know about php7 and awesomeness like laravel..
Framework for artists indeed

I present to you a php framework with an "orm" that doesnt support table joins. Yes, you heard it right.

I just want to say few things to the developers community -
If you are a bad programmer, please spend your time at improving rather than writing frameworks, or making the stupid decision on using SUCH SHIT FRAMEWORK AT A CORPORATE COMPANY!

Also if you are not sure if you are a good programmer or not, chances are you aren't. That's just how it is.

After creating my own PHP MVC framework with Twig as templating engine, everything is now so simple and so fast, I juat cant belive how much I understand now. The development is just so smooth, you know exactly what to do all the time... And for my simple project, it does not even hurt that much to use PHP (and its even strictly typed 7.2, so not that bad). I think that I am in love. ❤

When a framework is updated, and it screws up the entire project!

Looking at you, Laravel.

My first software.. Okay. So first time I ever attempted was with my father, i was around 8 or so, i remember very little from it, but in nutshell, i somehow ended up at his job having day off school or something, no idea.

Apparently he was bored, so he decided yo show me... Basic. Yep, thats right. Frking basic. Anyway, he shown me some really basic stuff in basic, and pushed the envelope really hard, just trying to force into me more and more in these 8hrs. I started with filling screen with "o" characters. Most of times he was telling me what to write with elaborate explanation why. At the end of the day, we finished with simple maze game where player was "o" and maze walls was #. Without any goal, or anything.

Next day i was at point 0, understood nothing from it except how to handle keystrokes (and belive me, that for me was huge mindblow, and even bigger mindblow that it actually made prefect sense).

I dont remember much, but later i started with father-assisted c++ and some pascal. I immidietly loved c++ but dropped learning it for (NullPointer) reason.

Thats not really project imho, so now time for my actual first project.

It was about time when ARK survival evolved was a fresh thing, i was playing it a lot. Server admin became buddy. We all complained about max level cap, but to change it in config you needed to input whole new xp curve.

At that time i had great familiarity with google and computers, some thought i was some kind of PC god (seriously I heard someone saying so about me lol) just becouse I could ressurect most cases of broken windows. And I had next to zero programming expirience. It was about to change. I made first c++ actual program, that was making xp curve for you. It took me just bearly 2 days and was series of cin, cout, one file open, some maths in loop, and done. Maths was very bad. But i pushed it into steam forums, and one guy responded how.bad my math was, so we colabed on making 2 iteration. Took around week. Than half a year passed and we wanted go big. Go gui. I had no freaking idea how making gui looks like. Community liked my cli tool, we had quite a lot of downloads, why not go GUI. And thats when I discovered QT framework. And we had few features in mind... It took us half a year to make it. From 60 lines of code i jumped into 1k lines of code. We pushed it and immidietly started working on 4th version with much greater customizability etc.

Than i finished 18 and found a job. Job in php. I got it becouse I made this project.

Now project is abandon. This project also gave me a lesson that donations will not feed you.

Edit: and before you think about my father that he was nice person to show me code, trust me, i dont know bigger dick than him.

!rant

For a bunch of application redesigns that we are doing at work I am letting the other two developers in my department help with selecting the stack. Normally, we work with Java and PHP, and while they seem to enjoy php I find them concerned at the possibility of making it more Java centric.

So I compiled a list of examples of different tech stacks that are not only more modern (cuz our Java stuff is old JSP stuff) but also simple to learn and use. Mind you, the point is to make this a gradual change, not just rewrite the entire house from scratch.

the list contained examples in:
Python: django and flask

Ruby: Ruby on Rails

Java: Spring Boot

Golang: Small self made mvc framework I built, nothing fancy on it, it uses templates and shit, didn't make it api centric

Node: Express examples in both vanilla JS and TypeScript

php with Laravel.

Since we work with php most of the time as well I imagined that they would be more inclined for Laravel, but I was wrong :P they seemed to like the Node Express route and the Golang route more than anything else with Python and Django being close.

Personally I know that there is more to selecting a stack, but initial perceptions make for a lot of things in selection of the stack.

Pretty excited, if they gauge everything considered in regards to what we have and we found Golang to be a clear winner it would give them the chance to add a nice and competitive tech to their resumes.

not a rant, or anything per se, just wanted to share some stuff with y'all

A petty rant but I'm going for it anyway.

I don't like how Trongate is bashing Laravel, claiming that it is a "better" framework and "Pure PHP is back".

It's fine if you built a framework that is better than Laravel, good for you. But don't go around bashing Taylor Otwell's work. As someone, who has spent a major portion of my career in IT as a Laravel dev, that hurts to see.

IMO I think they never understood why Laravel became popular in the first place. It wasn't because it's the fastest, but because how beginner-friendly it is and how easy it is to maintain and many other perks it has.

Who the fuck invented the glorified pile of shit people call laravel? Is this actually used in PROD for anything else than load testing a monitoring server by creating loads of error messages?
OOP exists for a reason, not to create bazillions of classes with static methods.
Dump that shit ffs!

Just got an internship a few days ago. The manager threw a project at me. I have to do it alone. It's a user-system (registration, login etc.) The front-end is ready. And I have to build its back-end in PHP. I started to draw the project on paper (pseudocode) and then asked a few questions about design patterns to jump into coding. They recommended me Laravel. I'm good at PHP (procedural) and have done some basic OOP. I've actually built a few projects in Python using OOP. But I've never used any framework (yeah, I know). So I started to learn Laravel and realized that it's very different than normal PHP (procedural or even normal OOP). I almost don't write any normal PHP code. This makes me confused. But I have to learn it fast and well, and finish the project to hit the deadline and get the full-time job. I'm desperately looking for any kind of help to learn Laravel more effectively! I've googled and got some recommendations. But I need more live help from devs directly.

Uikit is probably the worst CSS framework out there. PHP is the slowest server side ever. My company use both. 😞

Boss thinks the CMS that another dev built over the course of a good year, will make customers say "ooooh yeah, I will definately come to you and pay a shitload of money for a buggy and unfinished system, even tho I will never be able to leave with a working copy of my website like I could with wordpress".

The whole effing things is based on an old, outdated version of a popular PHP framework.

Oh yeah, and I can not update <the framework> because the dev has tinkered with the core files :)
Yay.

The whole fucking thing won't run on PHP7 and will explode right into my boss's face.

Not mine though, because I will be gone by then :)

I think the worst time was when I worked on a work project through the night. It was at my previous employer, I was forced to work on legacy php projects I knew nothing about. Nobody could help me and I was always doing days over tickets which were just a pain in the ass in an old magic framework and a custom build cms :c.

I couldn't motivate myself for days and eventually when the deadline came I worked through the night and committed in the morning, then I jumped into bed. I realized that this was a big sign that I really had to quit, and switched companies several months later.

The dangers of PHP eval()

Yup. "Scary, you better make use of include instead" — I read all the time everywhere. I want to hear good case scenarios and feel safe with it.

I use the eval() method as a good resource to build custom website modules written in PHP which are stored and retrieved back from a database. I ENSURED IS SAFE AND CAN ONLY BE ALTERED THROUGH PRIVILEGED USERS. THERE. I SAID IT. You could as well develop a malicious module and share it to be used on the same application, but this application is just for my use at the moment so I don't wanna worry more or I'll become bald.

I had to take out my fear and confront it in front of you guys. If i had to count every single time somebody mentions on Stack Overflow or the comments over PHP documentation about the dangers of using eval I'd quit already.

Tell me if I'm wrong: in a safe environment and trustworthy piece of code is it OK to execute eval('?>'.$pieceOfCode); ... Right?

The reason I store code on the database is because I create/edit modules on the web editor itself.

I use my own coded layers to authenticate a privileged user: A single way to grant access to admin functions through a unique authentication tunnel granting so privileged user to access the editor or send API requests, custom htaccess rules to protect all filesystem behind the domain root path, a custom URI controller + SSL. All this should do the trick to safely use the damn eval(), is that right?!

Unless malicious code is found on the code stored prior to its evaluation.

But FFS, in such scenario, why not better fuck up the framework filesystem instead? Is one password closer than the database.

I will need therapy after this. I swear.

If 'eval is evil' (as it appears in the suggested tags for this post) how can we ensure that third party code is ever trustworthy without even looking at it? This happens already with chrome extensions, or even phone apps a long time after reaching to millions of devices.

I need to performance monitor our web app. I have been working on some speed improvments since some of our customers have complained. My boss wants me to be able to produce stats which he can use (and abuse) to highlight to customers that we have got quicker. I am currently looking at blackfire for PHP profiling to help with speeding things up but I need a top site overview for everything. Our stack is PHP (no framework), JS (jquery + vanilla), MySQL on Windows mainly. On premise solutions would be good since we don't traditionally run in the Cloud. Our system isn't SaaS and is installed on dedicated data centre servers or on premise

My first job wasn't as good as i hoped to be.
I had to do a content update to a overly plugined worpress site.
But non of my collegues could give me the code for the site to actually do something. I only could use the wordpress admin page.

My colleagues had to use a shitty php framework which was developed by an other company. They were so stressed..
After i talked to them they told me that everyone wants to leave the company.
And the boss was an arrogant asshole.

I left after a weak.

I have a programming tutorials website I built from scratch in the PHP framework Laravel 5.4. Recently my friends have been pushing me to use WordPress instead.
I haven't worked with WordPress yet but I just hate it. I always think that it will not give me the flexibility I might need when adding new features.
This has put me in great doubt and anxiety about what I'm doing.
Is wordpress a better choice? I'm I just being lazy about the WordPress stuff?
I'll appreciate any advice on this.

Web developers, please recommend a tech stack. I have work experience in Laravel, Angular and Node Express. Personal small experience only for Vue and React.

Frontend: Angular, React or Vue?

Backend: Node Adonis JS or PHP Laravel?

CSS framework: Angular Material(angular), Material-UI, Tailwind CSS or Bootstrap?

This is for a personal project API based. What frontend backend tech stack are you using right now? Thanks!

Hello guys. A newbie to the app. I would like to ask - start a conversation with you about adopting new technologies, if should we follow or just wait? I am a PHP developer. I would set myself around mid to senior level. Since I graduated and I start working on a Marketing/Development Company, I have been develop a lot of websites, platforms with pure PHP, JavaScript, SQL. Later I start using framework like laravel. Now I am thinking about JS frameworks such as node, vue, react, angular and maybe later noSQL. The problem is that there are many new technologies that companies required when you apply. I want to learn new technologies but I don't know if that would be helpful than focus on LAMP and get better and better to that. Many orgs have implemented their own technologies and each company is getting mad to it. You see each company adapt these new technologies even if they don't want em or projects required it. So my question is: are we talking about dramatically speed and light use to server when we use new frameworks like these, previous mentione + etc? Or companies are just trying to look cool by mentioning many techologies while projects could never ask for em? (Nothing serious, I am just trying to make conversation and clear my thoughts by getting others opinion)

Last week me and my friend have been changed from a legacy PHP project to new Ruby on Rails-based setup. What, in first instance, looked like a great improvement, now becomes a nightmare.

All this convention-over-configuration is awesome - but only if you already know the conventions, or if somebody told'em to you.

And everything is going even more out of control because the damn project is based upon Spree gem and several other extensions, that MUST be changed to meet out company needs.

I'm getting really mad with all this pressure. Ruby seems to be a great language, but I'd rather be working with Laravel. Its overall organization, the centralization of CLI commands in artisan, and the astoundingly clear, eloquent, direct and well-designed documentation made my adoption curve there a little more pleasant.

I mean, legacy PHP systems are awful, but Laravel framework sounds way more easy-to-learn and well-constructed when compared to rails.

But given all this nightmare, I really want to be proved the opposite.

procrastinative coding is a bad habit of mine. I've been using php for 10+ years and just recently got into laravel. I have to say I love it but at times I wish I could have learned the entire framework before starting my project some time ago. as I am coding I learn new tricks with laravel on how to do things and have to waste time and go back and change existing code... or tell myself "I'll come back to this after the launch".
I'm just wondering how other people handle taking on new frameworks

Admitting a few things: I found myself ranting multiple times about multiple programming languages and how it's their fault things didn't go my way, I'd like to take the time to admit that I was wrong, not understanding the language was because of my lack of experience with it and patience to understand. So here's my two cents : if you're ranting about a programming language/ framework being bad, you're probably inexperienced and don't know how to use it right. I was retarded for blaming languages such as php and using typescript as being bad even though I was clearly inexperienced with them, sometimes I see a bunch of retards bashing great languages and libraries such as bootstrap, bitch if you can't manage to understand how to copy paste some css classes then you will probably never be able to write css and should consider working as truck driver. It's been a month now in my new company and my skill level has increased exponentially, we are almost ready to launch our app and I have in someway become super excited about learning new tech.

Got some Freelance work(PHP) via my friend so i said ok lets see. Those were some college students and wanted their project to be deployed that their seniors built and none of them knew how to fix the issues so here i step in.
Nightmare of a design, no signs of framework, html/css looks like it was designed by a 10th grader, no prepared queries, every file uses db config seperately so a minor change would require me to edit those 50+ php files... overall a broken mess. FML.

!rant
I built a webinterface a few months ago. it was based on the php framework laravel. but i want to change to nodejs in combination with mongodb.
do you know good nodejs mvc frameworks similar to laravel?

This idiot client wanted me to code within a laravel app. He wanted me to use laravels translation helpers. He also wanted me to put every piece of code into a php file in the public directory and I must not change any of Laravels framework files...

I denied.

It's my first rant. So please ++1 me.

Now my rant:

In this semester I had a subject about system architecture. In this class, we must learn Java script, C# (and ASP.NET framework ), PHP (and Zend Framework 2), but in the classes is taught only UML and patterns. In the moodle of the subject we don't have any information about any of the languages and if we ask the teachers they don't know anything.
And we need in 4 weeks do a work with a widget in javascript, 2 Asp.net mvc, 1 asp.net web api. All with authentication.

So we are all fucked

For : Web devs, especially corporate website developers. (home, about, services, contact pages with content update features, bla bla)

Question : Is there an open sourced PHP solution between Wordpress and Laravel?

Reasons
- I do not want full framework like laravel for such simple website.
- Laravel is too much and heavy for standard corporate websites and not all clients can afford ssh-enabled servers.
- I do not want full CMS features like plugins, themes, etc from Wordpress.
- Wordpress themeing is not super difficult but also not as simple as Laravel's blades.
- I also don't wanna go static since the content update needs to be dynamic.
- I am willing to write own templates, CRUDs in minimal approach just for specific parts based on clients requirements.
- I want something that can easily host on shared hosting. (do not have to worry about composer and ssh)

Any thought?

So guys... I’m pretty interested in web development and I have a bit of experience in php and I want to learn a python web framework. But I don’t know which framework to choose.
Flask or Django???
Any Suggestions???

Me and some friends are working on creating a food recipe app and webapp. Currently in Norwegian, but would it be worth the trouble of translating all content and the app itself?

Backend written in PHP/MySQL with Laravel and app written with Ionic Framework v1.

Dev: Now that I finally know PHP and JS it must be really easy to find a good framework and use to build my beautiful website.

The options are limited: AngularJS, ReactJS, Ember, ActivateJS, BackboneJS, ExpressJS, Laravel, RactiveJS, Node.JS, Meteor, Knockout, Symphony, Codeignitor

And yes, you thought if you don't like AngularJS you can easily switch to ReactJS. But guess what, every framework will use their own scripting languages like Jade, Blade, Typescript making it learning something new extremely smooth.

The documentation will be part of another rant

I have read people talk about how “Laravel makes PHP fun”. I don't get it. I really hate frameworks. Yeah they may simplify tasks. But the way I see it, you now have a damn framework that you're never going to bother to understand. You most likely won't read the underlying code, you'll rely on others to release security updates.

Hey yeah it has its benefits, like peer reviewed, and matured code.

But I guess it's just not for me.

SAME GOES FOR WORDPRESS. It does freaking make your life easy, and it's easy money, but I guess it would just annoy me to not be bothered with the underlying code.

Anyway, Imma head on to make my own framework....

So there was a time when I "knew" PHP but I've never been able to use it, correctly or not. I knew I had to know a framework to get more accepted in the work market place, so I went on Codecademy, and started to learn a shit ton of stuff that I knew but I now master way more than before. Until I fall on a Ruby on Rails tutorial. Then another. Then a login / register system.

Dude. It was so simple. I had the feeling that my magic wand found me, and that I was developing just by speaking English (well it was the basics)

Today RoR is still my favourite framework, I just wish I could be paid to work with it 😍

When I was studying web integrator.
At first I didn't even know html, yet alone what a php tag or extension meant.

I quickly caught onto it though and started to grasp that the procedural stuff they taught was really outdated.

So I researched intensely and eventually whipped up my very own php framework.
- if you're interested, it lives on github.com:sasin91/php-framework

Obviously it's a pile of fungal infested dung.

but ey, I was light years ahead of the rest of the class.
Besides, we all gotta stackoverflow somewhere :)

Rebuilding a whole disintegrating legacy plain-PHP project from zero in my favourite framework alone with data importers and stuff in 6 weeks.
Gave me some dreamless nights, but it was a great adventure.

!rant
I got to work on this project written in PHP that is literally unsalvageable so I will need to redo it from scratch, it's an e-commerce/social network mix that allows you to resell your clothes and I will have to work with PHP-only server-side so I was looking for a JS framework that has all these cool features like Angular but does not require node.js and I stumbled upon React and Vue and I can't decide between them. I was wondering if anyone knows both of these frameworks and could help me decide which one to use. (I have almost no knowledge about these frameworks)

PS: The server-side will be PHP with MySQL because that's the only option that the client's hosting offers.

Stuff I need to finish:
PHP framework
Music player for android
Nginx module for crypting mp4 fragments
Personal blog engine
Unit and data converter service
Personal transactions application

Too much, just too much...

A lot of this might be an assumption based on not enough research on both NestJS and TypeScript, so if something here is not well put or incorrect then please feel free to provide the necessary info to correct me since I care far more about getting dat booty than I do being right on the internet :D

Sooo, a year or so ago I got a hold on the Nest JS framework. A TypeScript based stack used to build microservices for node. Sounded good enough in terms of structure, it is based on the same format that Angular uses, so if you use Angular then the module system that the application has will make sense.

I attempted (last night) to play with the framework (which I normally don't since I am not that much of a big fan of frameworks and prefer a library based approach) and found a couple of things that weird me out about their selling points, mainly, how it deals with inversion of control.

My issue: This is dependency injection for people that don't really understand the concept of dependency injection. SOLID principles seem to be thrown out of the window completely due to how coupled with one another items are. Literally, you cannot change one dependency coming from one portion to the other(i.e a service into a controller) without changing all references to it, so if you were using a service specification for a particular database, and change the database, you would have to manually edit that very same service, or define another one....AND change the hardwire of the code from the providers section all the way into the controllers that use it....this was a short example, but you get the gist. This is more of a service locator type of deal than well....actual dependency injection. Oh, and the documentation uses classes rather than interfaces WHICH is where I started noticing that the whole intention of dependency injection was weird. Then I came to realize that TypeScript interfaces are meeheed out during transpilation.

Digging into the documentation I found about custom providers that could somehowemaybekinda work through. But in the end it requires far too much and items that well, they just don't feel as natural as if I was writing this in C# or Java, or PHP (actually where I use it the most)

I still think it is a framework worth learning, but I believe that this might be a bias of mine of deriving from the norm to which I was and have been used to doing the most.

What the best PHP framework? In your opinion, obviously

Aesthetics are important

It had been a while since I had a look into the Yii framework. Went into their website today. I was surprised to see that they had changed the design of a lot of it. This is particularly good since I believe that one thing that really makes devs(particularly web since most of us are full stack) ignore a tool is the presentation of it on its respective website. That being said, it is really hard for any PHP framework to go ahead and compete with how really good looking and easy to navigate the Laravel website is.

I know this might seem as a shallow thing to look at. After all, a tool can be amazing and have a 90's looking website, and this happens a lot in certain communities. But all in all I am pleased that the Yii framework website is looking as good.

Then again Rails(the Ruby framework) has a "looks like a toy" website and the framework is really powerful and advanced.

Met Symfony first .. fell in love .. Then I met Laravel fell in love again ..! Now am confused with whom to propose .. :/

Told my boss that i don't understand Laravel because i never use PHP in any project before.But he told me that it is so easy and give me 2 week to explore.

I know java, c#, python but don't know why it's hard for me to understand Laravel framework.

when did you follow PHP developers last used PHP without a framework or at least used PHP itself for the most part?

a foreach and if don't count .. obviously 😁

When you love the company you work for, and your boss is amazing; but you're stuck with Zend Framework 2 and PHP on a 1.2m LoC untested legacy system...

The one in which I am rn is the reason why so many people dislike php, jquery and Java on the server.

Then previous to this one, classic ASP for the web interface and our desktop components were delphi (OLD ass delphi)

Mind you, these are all tech stacks that I do like (php, java and O Pascal in particular) but really dislike in:

php: we have just your standard procedural spaghetti php on some old ass shit.

Classic ASP: Same as with php, no proper structure, made more apparent by the intense limitations of VBScript, I did enjoy the language tho, had it evolved better It would have been more tolerable, but the hoops i had to take to build a propee API in it....boooooy that shit was an eye opener.

Delphi: Not bad in itself, but the original dev had a shit notion about how architecture should work.....or what architecture is for that matter.

The Java one: this shit was coded when Spring was already an alternative to just fucking around with JSP, or any other framework for that fucking matter. Dude tried....TRIED to implement design patterns in it and it failed on every single fucking component. Worst of all, it was coded in such a shit way that during certain...err...conditions, the bottleneck proved too massive of an ubdertaking and the app chokes and needs to be restarted ... constantly

their use cases for jquery are not bad, but loading all of jquery for the shit they mostly do could have been easily done with just standard vanilla JS.

I got more, but thede are just from the top of my head

I love php, mind you, but shit like this makes me see why some people GREATLY dislikes it.

I alsp have some old web forms in c# and vb net that I loathe, funny enough the code for thise in vb.net is more elegant, almost as if it were from a different developer.

Symfony or Laravel, what are your thoughts?

CodeIgniter-4 V/s Laravel-5.x..!!!!

Which PHP framework is best for REST APIs and Why ?

I tried to convince my boss that choosing ruby on rails would be a great framework for the projects they want me to develop. I even put together a presentation to show why it's capable.
I did it because I've completed a great course on coursera, and wanted to gain more experience in real projects.
Yet they've dismissed the idea cause there is noone else working at the company who has any competence in rails, so I have to do all the work in yii. There are lot if similarities between the two framewoks but I have no interest in php and I haven't touched php in like, 8 years...
Need to find a way to practice rails in the meantime.

I am writing a simple MVC Framework with PHP for learning and have a lot of small questions which are probably stupid or just typos...
Where is the best place to ask those?

I don't want to spam SO with this because most of the time I just have an error and don't even know what to ask.

There is no fucking holy grail of programming. It's better to use the right tools for each task instead of wasting hours to make the wrong tool do a horrible job. But noooooo. Even since this co-worker got here, he bragged how good Drupal 7 is for everything, and he never even ised it once before! Now we have 2 fucking projects beyond schedule and a new one coming ing, each of which tries to use a fucking CMS as if it was a fucking framework. Fucking idiots who believe setting a couple of options via gui to generate random code means programming. Fucking bosses who believe using 3rd party community modules and hacking around them to have them do different stuff is better than coding what we need. I fucking gave up and started using raw php to be able to finish this fucking project, but my damn co-worker refuses to. He keeps swearing and punching the desk, saying it's our clients' fault for asking stupid features, and if you dare to mention how it may because we're using a cms like it was a framework, he just goes full bigot about Drupal. Bloody Hell, it would have taken lass than 3 weeks in Rails. I could just headbutt a kitten right now.

I fell in love with the “Limonade“ PHP-Framework recently. It's a really cute, little and easy framework. I have so much fun creating Web-Apps and Websites with it!
You guys, should check it out!

I am a chinese dev with 5-6 years experience, working on c/cpp/golang for backend server and PHP for web.

But I still feel hard to learn JAVA and JAVA web framework. You know it just has too many bultshit too learn, which is meanless to me.

Do you no-chinese guys also think so?

May's last week was very hectic. I had just finished my final exams and there were going to be semester project evaluations in that whole week.

@safiullah and me had decided to make a whole Social Network with all features in it, for the DB course project.
All other classmates were making small management systems like ticket booking and etc.
We thought that if we really wanted to learn DB concepts then we should come up with something different than a management panel.
Hence we did it. This was the first time we used a framework. Well, I had written that PHP framework while i was learning about how frameworks work and the way they are made. So it wasn't a big thing but it was something which could be used as a base for clean and organized code.

It took about a month of commits and pushes and it resulted in a very good social network. It had all the features and algorithms present in a starter social network.

For us students, we were happy to see what a fine job we had done. We learnt a lot and used new concepts.

When we went to the instructor, she asked us to sit down and show the project. @safiullah placed the laptop, and logged out from the social network so that he could show her a demo.
She exclaimed,"Why did you do it (Log out) ?"
He replied: "To show you how it works🤷🏻‍♂️"
She:"Get to the previous state and leave it"
Then she asked different questions like what was a post request in php and how it differed from get? what library for DB connection was used... etc.
We explained each and every step.

She saw the frontend design and said "You've just added text to the elements" as If we were showing her a theme demo with hard coded text accomplished by inspect element.

She did not take a look at any other page than the one we had shown her at start. She navigated to no other page and asked nothing about what total features were implemented and how they were done?

Then she said Thank You and we left.

After some days marks were uploaded in LMS and we were just two points above the average.

She took no look and gave us the least when our project was the best.
I'm 100 percent sure she thought that we were showing her a project copied from somewhere else. 🤣

Codeigniter (a PHP framework). Every time I stumble upon a CI project, it's always a mess, since they don't have that good of a documentation like Laravel.

Quick Question

Suppose I wanted to apply A.I. or deeplearning to a very simple marketing activity I have in mind...

What's my learning curve looking like? I'm a backend programmer with roughly 3-4 years
experience in laravel/php right now. I've used
almost every inch of that framework.

Just curious. And any path anyone would suggest? thanks

Which is better and which has bigger scope in future - CodeIgniter or Laravel or Symphony?

What to reply to a person who insist to use procedural php for developing website(with lot of services ofc) instead of framework which uses OOP concepts?
And says it will take too much time to learn those concepts and to implement it.

Which php framework is worth getting into? Laravel seems to have most market or should I go with CakePHP or even something else? any info is appreciated (how are the docs, is it hard to find solutions, how is the error handler, how hard is it to learn etc), I am sure people around here have used a good amount of them and can tell their rage or good things about it. 😳

Hate on PHP all you want but ain’t no web framework gives you everything out of the box like Laravel does.

This is yet another rant about php.

But I'll put my hands on first: I'm less than a junior and I'm looking for a backend language to learn.
So far I've been looking at php with Symfony because it's been used where I work.

Is it my impression or Symfony somehow overcomplicates everything? Like I don't know, for any stupid thing I get stucked (like yesterday, spent two hours on a circular reference problem with serialization).

Also, I don't like it's documentation. I am a book person, meaning that I need pages of text explaining how the framework (or whatever) works in a precise order.

Symfony's docs are like a graph: you often have no idea where you are or "what comes next".

Also, I feel like every page makes you just copy-paste everything without explaining very much what's happening under the hood.

I know there is a cookbook, but it's pretty outdated (like it's at version 3 or 2.7, I don't remember).

Is it just me? Do other Symfony developers experienced the same?

First of all... What I really like is computing. Wearing a language T-shirt and defending a framework as a New World Order activist is not me. What matters is to make the computer perform the task that I programmed, in a way that it is easy to maintain and that it executes quickly. User needs to like and operate fast. And the computer should be respected and not make it work its ass off just because it needs to load my fancy libraries. Whether the task will be done in C, C++, Go, PHP, Java, Ruby, VB, or whatever the fuck it is doesn't matter.

Fed up with people shipping a simple 2kb utility with 2GB of runtime dependencies.

IT is the only profession that advocates branding and specializes in a single tool. I've never seen an electrician who only uses a single brand screwdriver.

Fuck you fan boys.

Should I learn Angular 2 or Vue 2?

Not asking which one is better, but which one suits my need better:

I want to move from PHP to nodejs frameworks; I know Vue cause it's famous in the Laravel community, but don't know about the node/js community. I heard Angular 2 is hard, but I'm changing my dev stack so might as invest some time in it. So which one should I pick?

Also, what's a good nodejs framework for starters (who aim to build production-ready apps) (also, not planning on doing mobile apps so no need for cross platform js frameworks).

Thanks in advance